Time - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anastasia · 10-11-2002, 06:43 AM

Is it just me, or does JRRT underestimate time in his books?

eg. I'm reading FOTR again now and after Khazad-Dum it says smth like "He led them on for another 3 hours" and it makes 3 hours sound like nothing at all... or in Rivendell it says "The hobbits had been nearly two months in the House of Elrond" in the same kind of way and that doesnt really seem..well...realistic. And in the Council of Elrond Gandalf says "That was seventeen years ago" in the same kind of way as "that was last week"...

Maybe its just me, but...
Or it could be that time was drastically cut in the film and this influenced my outlook on the whole of LOTR?

[ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: Anastasia ]

Anastasia · 10-11-2002, 08:33 AM

does anyone agree with me? anyone???

Selmo · 10-11-2002, 08:56 AM

The perception of time would be very different amongst the various members of the Fellowship.

You can't expect hobbits (life expectance of 100 years) and men (a bit less for most men, a bit more for Gondorians) to feel the same way about the passage of time as Wizards who've been around for a few thousand years, or Elves, some of whom have lived for tens of thousands years.

lathspell · 10-11-2002, 09:24 AM

Time is relative in such cases. If you have led a company for days and weeks, it is not much if you led them 'another three hours'.
As Selmo points out time is different for each race. Gandalf says to Theoden that 'the day that Eorl the Young came out of the North till this very day is long for the Rohirrim but only a short while for the Ents and the greet deads of the Rohirrim only of small concern to them'.... I guess it's the same way with Gandalf: we would think 17 years as a long time for we live only 80 years or so, but Gandalf has lived from the very beginning so 17 years ain't long. Rather a short while, so to speak.

So I think Tolkien pointed out the value of time quite well.

greetings,
lathspell

Child of the 7th Age · 10-11-2002, 09:30 AM

Anastasia --

You are perceptive and absolutely right! The concept of time in the book and the movie are totally different. The movie pace is very rapid. The same is not true of the book. It is, what I might term, 'slow and deep.'

Let me give just two examples. There are actually 17 years between Bilbo's birthday party and Frodo's departure from the Shire with the Ring . Although PJ never sets dates on this, it seems like a much shorter time in the movie. Certainly, characters like Merry and Pippin do not look 17 years older from the time of the birthday party till their joining with Frodo. If you take a look at the geneology in the Appendix, Pippin would have only been 11 years old at the time of the birthday party (born 1390, birthday party in 1401). Obviously PJ didn't do that

Also, Gandalf tells Frodo to leave in April 1418 (shire time). He doesn't leave till September 23. In the movie, he leaves instantly.

I do agree that the different races of Middle-earth had different perceptions of time. But many of the changes were not motivated by this, but instead by the fact that cinema is different than the written word. Because of this, the 'flavor' of the movie is very different than the book. Given the nature of film, it is easy to understand why PJ made these changes.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

lathspell · 10-11-2002, 11:57 AM

oh sorry, I didn't read that last part about the cutting in the movie. Now I can only say: 'I agree with CotSA!'

greetings,
lathspell

10-11-2002, 06:43 AM	#1
Anastasia Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 91	Time Is it just me, or does JRRT underestimate time in his books? eg. I'm reading FOTR again now and after Khazad-Dum it says smth like "He led them on for another 3 hours" and it makes 3 hours sound like nothing at all... or in Rivendell it says "The hobbits had been nearly two months in the House of Elrond" in the same kind of way and that doesnt really seem..well...realistic. And in the Council of Elrond Gandalf says "That was seventeen years ago" in the same kind of way as "that was last week"... Maybe its just me, but... Or it could be that time was drastically cut in the film and this influenced my outlook on the whole of LOTR? [ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: Anastasia ] __________________ Aw, you've done grand, laddie! Now you know what you have to do: Burn the house down. Burn 'em all! ~The Leprechaun from The Simpsons.

10-11-2002, 08:33 AM	#2
Anastasia Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: London Posts: 91	does anyone agree with me? anyone??? __________________ Aw, you've done grand, laddie! Now you know what you have to do: Burn the house down. Burn 'em all! ~The Leprechaun from The Simpsons.

10-11-2002, 09:24 AM	#4
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	Time is relative in such cases. If you have led a company for days and weeks, it is not much if you led them 'another three hours'. As Selmo points out time is different for each race. Gandalf says to Theoden that 'the day that Eorl the Young came out of the North till this very day is long for the Rohirrim but only a short while for the Ents and the greet deads of the Rohirrim only of small concern to them'.... I guess it's the same way with Gandalf: we would think 17 years as a long time for we live only 80 years or so, but Gandalf has lived from the very beginning so 17 years ain't long. Rather a short while, so to speak. So I think Tolkien pointed out the value of time quite well. greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

10-11-2002, 09:30 AM	#5
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,135	Anastasia -- You are perceptive and absolutely right! The concept of time in the book and the movie are totally different. The movie pace is very rapid. The same is not true of the book. It is, what I might term, 'slow and deep.' Let me give just two examples. There are actually 17 years between Bilbo's birthday party and Frodo's departure from the Shire with the Ring . Although PJ never sets dates on this, it seems like a much shorter time in the movie. Certainly, characters like Merry and Pippin do not look 17 years older from the time of the birthday party till their joining with Frodo. If you take a look at the geneology in the Appendix, Pippin would have only been 11 years old at the time of the birthday party (born 1390, birthday party in 1401). Obviously PJ didn't do that Also, Gandalf tells Frodo to leave in April 1418 (shire time). He doesn't leave till September 23. In the movie, he leaves instantly. I do agree that the different races of Middle-earth had different perceptions of time. But many of the changes were not motivated by this, but instead by the fact that cinema is different than the written word. Because of this, the 'flavor' of the movie is very different than the book. Given the nature of film, it is easy to understand why PJ made these changes. sharon, the 7th age hobbit [ October 11, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

10-11-2002, 11:57 AM	#6
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	oh sorry, I didn't read that last part about the cutting in the movie. Now I can only say: 'I agree with CotSA!' greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

10-11-2002, 08:56 AM	#3
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	The perception of time would be very different amongst the various members of the Fellowship. You can't expect hobbits (life expectance of 100 years) and men (a bit less for most men, a bit more for Gondorians) to feel the same way about the passage of time as Wizards who've been around for a few thousand years, or Elves, some of whom have lived for tens of thousands years.