You, my brown-eyed Frodo

[Mnemosyne]

As someone who read fan-fiction voraciously before ever dreaming of becoming active on the Web, I became aware very early of how the characters "looked" in most fanauthors' eyes: Frodo had "dark brown," if not "dark" hair and these gorgeous luminous blue eyes that made you want to get lost in his impending tragedy; Pippin had green eyes and sometimes even a ridiculous Scots accent (written in!); Sam sometimes had brown eyes but always had lighter hair than the rest. It didn't matter how strictly book-verse it was, or how well the author wrote (though the better writers only gave Pippin a set of bagpipes); the hobbits at least always resembled their counterparts in the Jackson films.

It was a self-perpetuating meme, and I didn't really question it until I reread the books and suddenly recalled that there was little to no evidence of how the hobbits looked! Sam is said to have had brown eyes twice; the mat Nob places on the bed in the Prancing Pony to look like Mr. Underhill's head is just plain "brown," not "dark brown" and certainly not "dark." And considering how little movie!Frodo, at least, acts like his book counterpart, I began to get very irritated whenever an act of sub-sub-creation described him as looking like that weak, pathetic victim.

Consequently, on that reread I began to focus on those parts of the books that have no counterpart in the films and try to figure out how exactly Frodo looked to me then, and was pleased to find a rather stouter, somewhat redder about the cheek, and thoroughly brown-eyed fellow in my mind's eye. Discovering other adaptations out there, especially the BBC Radio 4 version, did not hurt, and soon I was able to come up with a set of characters that was descriptive enough that I could keep them distinct from their filmic versions. Now the only problem came when I looked at other fanauthors and fanartists who did not do the same (I found the back button helped here immensely).

Some characters were easier to distinguish than others. Faramir was a piece of cake, since he's described as nothing like David Wenham and David Wenham acts nothing like him. Aragorn just needed a bit more weatherbeating and a stronger nose. Saruman I kept around because Christopher Lee is awesome.

Now, the most interesting thing to me out of all of this is that, before the movies came out (so far as I can remember), the characters were nothing more than fuzzy dark blobs with a few vague characteristics (e.g. Gandalf's bushy brows). Now I have something concrete and rather anti-filmic (which means that they've been influenced by the movies, just not in a positive fashion).

What I was curious about was how, if at all, the films and/or other media affected your perception of the physical appearance of the characters. Specifically:

1). If you read the books before the movies, what (if anything) did the characters look like to you?

2). After the movies came out, did this change?

3). If your answer to 2 is yes, have you tried to recover your previous mental pictures and/or create new ones in response to the films? If so, how?

4). Have any of your mental associations with characters been otherwise influenced by other sources (i.e. illustrations, fanart, other adaptations)?

and 5). Have you ever engaged in any sort of sub-sub-creative effort that draws upon any of these mental pictures (i.e. RPGs, fan fiction, fanart)?

[The Sixth Wizard]

Aragorn in the books is actually very close to the Aragorn I saw in the movies. Any time Sam acts heroic instead of just stubborn or anger-driven is also similar to my Sam. And the Gimli in the films is a huuuuuuge disappointment... ah well.

[Oddwen]

I read the books before the movies came out, but due to the amount of obsessing I did over the movie hype, the last time I read LotR I was stunned to realize how my perception of the characters had changed. I vowed not to read it again until I could banish a certain actor from my subconscious. (...and haven't picked it back up again.)

The only characters that came out of my movie obsession unsullied were Faramir and Aragorn, mostly because I found nothing in Viggo or Wenham to admire. 'Cuz you know, the knights in shining armor are only in your imagination...

But I saw the Bakshai cartoons way, way before that - in that at least I take the basic idea for the Hobbits. And Boromir also, come to think of it, horned helm and all. But most of the formative atmosphere came from the covers of the books themselves - The Hobbit, TTT and RotK were mossy and tan from the Tolkien illustrations, and FotR was the unique Ballantine treefrog in a plum tree with the Riders streaming out of the ford of Bruinen.

Things were a lot more haunting in those days.

All but the first two of my parodies are populated exclusively by Jackson's visions. Sad, as my first two are my favorite.

[edit]

Woah...I just realized how similar Faramir and Boromir are in my imagination...considering how different they were, and how they never interacted on the page, and how I didn't really associate them with each other at the time.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by The Sixth Wizard

Aragorn in the books is actually very close to the Aragorn I saw in the movies.

Viggo's a bit short for Aragorn.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Interesting thread...

When I read the books for real (I tried unsuccessfully once...it's a long story that I've told eslewhere on this site before), it was about a month before the movie came out. So I think that my preceptions were slightly colored by the trailer, though they're more different from the movie than they are like it.

My own imaginings are pretty difficult to describe since they are so deeply internal. The closest I can come is to say that my imagination must have taken the path of least resistance--that is, blended certain elements that I liked from the movies with a basic picture that was my own from the books. Sometimes, Middle-earth and its inhabitants look and sound similar to how they do in the movies, and sometimes they don't.

I find Frodo to have been the most deeply affected by the trailer. He still doesn't look the way he does in the movies, but his coloring and facial structure is similar at least. What can I say? I was 13 years old and I found him attractive. Of course that was going to color my imaginings a bit.

The Hobbits don't have those accents in my mind. In fact, generally they don't have accents at all, since I can't passibly replicate any accent other than my own, more's the pity, and I'm too lazy to try to imagine accents anyway. They don't "sound" american, per se, but they sure don't sound like they're out of the English countryside or Scotland or what have you. To describe their looks would be difficult, but they all are roughly the size and shape of Movie!Sam in my head, though that's perhaps still trimmer than Tolkien intended.

I find that there are fault lines in my imagination, though, between movie and book, and when there is a departure from the book, my imagination shifts. The Old Forest looks pretty much the same now as it did in November 2001...and the Hobbits all look a little...different when they're in there. It's consequently one of my favorite parts to read now.

Something similar is true of Faramir. He doesn't look much like his movie self (even though I like David Wenham and think he's a good actor who did the best he could with a faulty script--not so much the departure from the book, even, as that they seem to have treated Faramir with a Denethoresque level of neglect and carelessness). Faramir is taller in my imagination and resembles Aragorn more than he does Boromir.

As for who's closest in terms of book and movie? Ian McKellen's Gandalf looks about the same as my own did. Movie!Aragorn is also fairly similar to my imagination.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think it's brilliant how fantasy dwarves have Scots accents. I actually go further and imagine most of Tolkien's characters with such voices. Dwarves have rough west-coast tones; Elves more refined reekie types; the Shire-folk of course have (Aberdeen)Shire voices, a more rural yet bright accent. As for wizards, goodness:

"Saruman! Hemmin, Saruman! Fit ye dein? We're nae feart o yi, ye grippit nyaff. In fact, go'n gie us a scoof o yer accursed moonshine!"

*Gandalf does obscene gesture, Aragorn et al laugh heartily*

Saruman grumbles back: "Awa n bile yer heid, yi radge..."

If I was to write fan-fiction it would be little other than Frodo and pals getting chasies fae the bobbies amid mindless drunken property destruction. Oh man, that would be great.

What were we talking about again? Oh yes. To answer the question, my images of the characters are gained almost entirely from whisky-fuelled discussion down the pub. Films had no effect.

[Mnemosyne]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

my images of the characters are gained almost entirely from whisky-fuelled discussion down the pub.

This is, of course, the only valid way to form an opinion on anything these days.

[Galadriel]

1. Frodo: Whatever it was, I certainly did NOT imagine him with those huge blue eyes and the dark hair. I imagined him to have sandy coloured hair (it's mentioned he has fairer hair than most), with brown eyes, since Tolkien never really gave us a description of him, but he gave a general description of hobbits.

Sam: Brown hair, brown eyes. Apparel very much like the Ralph Bakshi adaptation. And I expected him to have darker skin in the movies, since Tolkien mentions at least twice that Sam has brown skin.

Pippin and Merry: I imagined these two to be very much alike, though I admit I thought Pippin would have lighter hair.

Legolas: I think this guy was the clearest out of all the characters I had in mind, along with Gimli. I imagined him to have shoulder-length wavy blonde hair and dark blue eyes, wearing green and brown, just like in the books.

Gimli: I believe John-Rhys Davies hit it on the spot here. I imagined Gimli to look EXACTLY as he did in the movies. I only felt he should have looked a bit more menacing. The Gimli in the movie was a shameful, insulting charicature.

Gandalf: Again, Ian McKellen nailed it. I just imagined a sharper nose, and blacker eyes.

Strider: Very foggy. Most vague character I came across.

2. Yeah, changed a lot. But I think Boromir and Faramir looked quite good. I actually liked the look of Boromir better in the movies than in the books. Aragorn looked good, but somehow he didn't look authentic enough for my taste. I'm going to deviate a bit from here by saying that PJ really killed some of the characters. The movie was awesome, but Frodo looked and acted like a pansy, Arwen was TOTALLY out of character, Pippin, Merry and Gimli just made me laugh, Legolas practically had no role, Gandalf looked far too weak, and Aragorn was just a total Gary Sue.

3. Yeah, actually. I designed some clothes and faces in a little black notebook that I keep exclusively for LotR

4. Yeah, definitely. Alan Lee and John Howe. I think they really nailed the feel of the books. The painting of Legolas and Gimli at Helm's Deep by John Howe really influenced my thinking. So did the painting of Gandalf walking with his staff (John Howe again). The Silmarillion characters were always a bit hazy for me, so looking at illustrations by Alan Lee helped. Turin looked EXACTLY how I thought he would

5. I've written some fanfiction where the characters are totally true to their appearances and characters in the book.

Cheers!

[Lastande Took]

I have to admit my only exposure to the movies comes from YouTube. Now that you know that, I also have to admit I didn't really have a good picture of the characters in my head. I was shocked, however, to see blond and/or blue-eyed Hobbits.

Frodo, in my head, was just a little thinner than the others, more refined, I guess the term would be.

Sam was sturdy, brown hair/eyes, tanned from being outside so much.

Merry and Pippin didn't really have mental images, just generic Hobbits slightly taller than normal, especially Merry.

I have to admit what I've seen of movie!Aragorn looks pretty good to me.

Gimli doesn't look gruff? earthy? enough.

Gandalf and Saruman are pretty much spot on.

[Lalaith]

an essay written circa 1970 and now in the Bodleian Library (Tolkien Papers A61 a, fol. 1-31). Mr. Rateliff quotes a description of Gandalf from this essay (which includes 'Which should make him a short man even in modern England, especially with the reduction of a bent back' for example), noting also that it was written in response to Pauline Baynes' art for the poster-map of Middle-earth -- which included the Fellowship and Bill, and certain evil types too.

I want to read that essay! I've got membership of the British Library but not the Bodleian...curses.
Anyway, as far as the films were concerned, eye colour didn't worry me too much but Frodo should have looked both older and more English. Elijah looked very American as well as of course being much too young, as everyone has said. Merry was wrong too but I can't put my finger on how...I think it was more the acting. Boromir I always saw as a hearty, bluff, soldier type with a big barrel chest. Got a shock with Sean Bean's tortured intellectual.
Best/most accurate visualisations for me were Gandalf and Eomer.

[Aiwendil]

My images of most of the characters were fairly well-defined before Jackson's movies came out and, in the long run, I don't think they were much affected by them. I say 'in the long run' because as I think back, it seems to me that in the immediate aftermath of those films, I did tend to picture the characters a bit more like those in the movies; but I think that now those images have largely reverted to what they were before.

On the other hand, I think the Bakshi animated movie (which I saw when I was rather young and not long after first reading the books) did influence my images of some of the characters quite a bit. I tend to picture the hobbits, with the exception of Sam, rather as they were in the Bakshi film. Boromir too (though without the infamous viking helmet). My image of Gimli tends to be close to the Bakshi version as well, though John Rhys-Davies isn't that far off either (except for the accent).

Cate Blanchett's Galadriel is very much the way I imagine her, though I think this is more an instance of Jackson hitting the nail on the head than of my image of her being influenced by the films. In any case, I never found her portrayal by Bakshi particularly convincing. Eowyn is another case where my mental image is very close to Jackson's version, and in this case it may well be due to the influence of the films.

There are a few characters of whom I have fairly definite mental pictures that are not at all like either the Bakshi or the Jackson version. Sam, for example. I never pictured him as particularly fat - perhaps a little on the stout side when the journey begins (actually I imagine Frodo to be a little stout at the outset as well). And neither Sean Astin's somewhat featureless face nor the near-caricature in the animated version is quite right if you ask me. Aragorn, too, in my mind looks nothing like either the animated version or like Viggo Mortensen.

Now that I think about it, another strong influence on the way I picture the characters is from various illustrators, particularly the Hildebrandt brothers. Bilbo, for example, looks rather like this for me, though without the glasses. The Dwarves in the The Hobbit I picture more or less like this. And while much of the Fellowship in this picture looks completely wrong, I think it may be the source for my image of Sam.

[Lastande Took]

I've been thinking about it, and movie!Boromir looks nothing like mental!Boromir. Mental!B. is tall and very solidly built with rather long (below-shoulder), slightly wavy hair that's dark enough brown to be a couple shades lighter than black. He has grey eyes and a dominating, powerful attitude about him.

[Galadriel]

You know what's funny? I never imagined the characters to look like the people in the movie, but I did imagine their voices to be very similar. Especially Frodo and Sam. Gandalf...in my head he had a somewhat deeper voice, and more cutting.

[Galadriel55]

When I read books, very often my "imagined" characters don't have faces. I don't know why, but that's how my imagination works - I picture the personalities rather than the physical appearance. Saying that, my characters have clothes, and height, and hair, and other physical aspects, but I just can't make the "proper face image", even if it's described in the book . Especially in Tolkien's books, where faces (and particularly eyes) reflect the character's inner self.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

When I read books, very often my "imagined" characters don't have faces. I don't know why, but that's how my imagination works - I picture the personalities rather than the physical appearance. Saying that, my characters have clothes, and height, and hair, and other physical aspects, but I just can't make the "proper face image", even if it's described in the book . Especially in Tolkien's books, where faces (and particularly eyes) reflect the character's inner self.

No, that's quite common. Many people have a hard time conjuring up a face.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

No, that's quite common. Many people have a hard time conjuring up a face.

I remember I heard somewhere that all the faces you dream of or can imagine are made up of real faces you've actually seen in real life, even if subconsciously. Maybe this would explain it? (I also find it hard to do)

[Pitchwife]

Me too. I have a general idea of what a character would look like, so I can tell whether a picture is like them or not, but I don't imagine a face so clearly that I'd be able to draw it - I've tried to, but the results always fall short of my inner vision, not because of lack of drawing skills, but because any drawing is too precise compared to what I imagine when reading.

(Related but slightly off-topic, does it happen to anyone else that you imagine a character e.g. dark-haired because their name somehow sounds/looks dark to you, even though they're clearly described as blond in the text?)

[Renzolicious]

I resisted seeing the movies for a long time because I knew they would not fit my own imagination and I was already happy with the 1981 BBC radio dramatisation which I regard very highly. I'm actually about to watch the entire extended movies tomorrow, but this time I will think of it as a highschool play rather than anything serious.
First up I am a child of the 80s so that might explain a few of my influences.
For me Willow will always be what Frodo looks like (but sounds like Ian Holm), the hobbits and what I imagine the shire to be like in general are influenced heavily by that movie also. Gandalf IS the Gandalf from the Bakshi cartoon (especially the beginning the part I remember best). I like Pitchwife's idea of Helmutt Lange for Aragorn. I also agree that Boromir and Faramir should have darker hair, and I always had Boromir with a black almost frankish moustache possibly like Sturm from the Dragonlance books (http://images.wikia.com/annex/images...rmAndFlint.jpg). Also agree that Gimli minus the stupid comedy relief was pretty much right. Keith Urban as Eomer is the only actor that I think looks like the character I had in mind.

I'm more interested in the Hobbit movie because its a simpler story and its not one of my favourite books. I wonder if they would butcher Children of Hurin if or when they decide to make it.

[Galadriel]

I agree, Galin. Tolkien may have stated that elves never have black hair, but he uses the word to describe their tresses often enough