Lord of the Rings TV series gets multi-season order at Amazon

[Pitchwife]

They got Tom Shippey working on this? There's still hope...

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

They got Tom Shippey working on this? There's still hope...

Indeed. It appears hes representing the Tolkien Estate to make sure Amazon follows the copyright agreement, which is more strict than I realized.

They're limited to strictly Second Age material and if it's an event that Tolkien wrote about they can't alter the canon. They'll still have to invent a lot of characters and names to fill in gaps in the timeline. But I'm now expecting something closer to the LOTR movies adaptation and not The Hobbit.

The LOTR movies had a bunch of problems of course, but I've always felt on the surface, it was Lord of the Rings. There was little to no depth, scratch the surface and it wasn't Lord of the Rings anymore, it was PJ's "interpretation." The Hobbit movies were straight up fanfic that I didn't recognize any of them belonged in "Middle-earth."


So it appears they won't be able to do something like smush together several hundred years of history, like in The Hobbit where they have the Azog surviving the Battle of Azanulbizar and being at the Battle of Five Armies. Which thankfully means, I don't think there could be any Legolas appearances, or you know something like Haldir showing up in Numenor with a company of Elves (since Legolas and Haldir are Third Age material).

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So it appears they won't be able to do something like smush together several hundred years of history, like in The Hobbit where they have the Azog surviving the Battle of Azanulbizar and being at the Battle of Five Armies. Which thankfully means, I don't think there could be any Legolas appearances, or you know something like Haldir showing up in Numenor with a company of Elves (since Legolas and Haldir are Third Age material).

Excellent news about Shippey. I wonder if they are going to bring in Frank Herbert's son when they once again import sandworms from Arrakis into Middle-earth.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Which thankfully means, I don't think there could be any Legolas appearances, or you know something like Haldir showing up in Numenor with a company of Elves (since Legolas and Haldir are Third Age material).

Since they are elves, it could be argued that they might have been alive in the Second Age...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

They got Tom Shippey working on this? There's still hope...

Not any more, apparently: REPORT: Amazon's Lord of the Rings Parts Ways With Tolkien Scholar Tom Shippey

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Not any more, apparently: REPORT: Amazon's Lord of the Rings Parts Ways With Tolkien Scholar Tom Shippey

I'm so glad I didn't let news of his participation get my hopes up.

It can be assumed that he objected to the inclusion of all the bordellos.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

It can be assumed that he objected to the inclusion of all the bordellos.

Or the plan to invent an evil Elf queen and call her the Mother of Balrogs?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Not any more, apparently: REPORT: Amazon's Lord of the Rings Parts Ways With Tolkien Scholar Tom Shippey

The headline should read: Shippey Skips The Sinking Ship

[Boromir88]

Well drat. (The news about Shippey leaving the project.)

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

Since they are elves, it could be argued that they might have been alive in the Second Age...

Well, actually my reading of the copyright is it's much stricter than that.

Yes, they could make the argument, they're Elves and therefor 'could' be alive in the 2nd Age. But my understanding is since Legolas and Haldir don't appear in the canon of the 2nd Age material at all, so they can't be added in. Elrond and Galadriel do are specifically mentioned to be involved in the 2nd age events, but not Legolas.

Although, they can invent new characters. I don't think there would be any stopping to just cast Orlando Bloom as "Les-galad" the son of Gil-galad.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Although, they can invent new characters. I don't think there would be any stopping to just cast Orlando Bloom as "Les-galad" the son of Gil-galad.

My understanding is that they can do pretty much anything that doesn't contradict the established canon. There's quite a bit of leeway there for GoT envy to play.

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

My understanding is that they can do pretty much anything that doesn't contradict the established canon. There's quite a bit of leeway there for GoT envy to play.

Yes, I believe that's fairly explicitly specified.

I don't know about this next bit, but I would assume that "can do anything" is defined in such a way that "if we catch you doing anything like what happened with the Hobbit movies, even if it doesn't contradict canon, we're pulling the plug" is something that can be done.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

This is looking worse and worse and worse. Now we hear of JJ Abrams' (indirect) involvement, doubtless advising the completely inexperienced showrunners...

And then there's the casting call for extras "comfortable with nudity," together with the hiring of an "intimacy coordinator."

This will be to Jackson's movies what Caligula was to I, Claudius.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/202...ke-on-tolkien/



[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM4x__ZzeOg[/media]

[Kuruharan]

In his own words to his publisher he expressed the desire for his overall Legendarium to be presented as “‘high’, purged of the gross.” That’s from his famous Letter 131.

As suspected, this is probably going to be more of "gross, purged of the high."

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

As suspected, this is probably going to be more of "gross, purged of the high."

GoT laid down the tracks already. Why bother doing something that doesn't play to the baser instincts?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

No money in it.

[Inziladun]

What's sad is really not so much that Amazon could feel the need to sexualize something Tolkien-based, but that they're likely right that a large portion of potential viewers may both expect and desire that.

I've so often felt I was born in the wrong time....

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I've so often felt I was born in the wrong time....

Isn't that at least a little bit of a requirement for being a Tolkien fan?

You know...one might have hoped that the ignominious and universally reviled way in which Game of Thrones ended might have put the kibosh on further larks of this nature.

Yes, I realize too much money had already been sunk into the venture.

[Zigûr]

Maybe it's only going to be used in some way evocative of the decadence of Númenor in the days of its fall?

No, I guess the producers (perhaps accurately) believe that, these days, because of GoT, in the minds of the general public, fantasy fiction = nudity. Regardless of any other content.

This is going to make Peter Jackson's often broad approach look restrained I suspect.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by kuruharan

as suspected, this is probably going to be more of "gross, purged of the high."

rotflmao!

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Maybe it's only going to be used in some way evocative of the decadence of Númenor in the days of its fall?

That will probably be their excuse.

Of course, they probably feel they can also run wild with the other Men in Middle-earth who had more of Sauron's influence.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Maybe it's only going to be used in some way evocative of the decadence of Númenor in the days of its fall?

If this series ever gets to the last days of Númenor and the end of the Second Age, it certainly won't be in Season 1, which is what they're filming now.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

...Season 1, which is what they're filming now.

The Merry Wives of Gil-Galad..?

[Huinesoron]

TORn has provided what they describe as the official synopsis, though it doesn't really meet that definition to my mind:

Amazon Studios’ forthcoming series brings to screens for the very first time the heroic legends of the fabled Second Age of Middle-earth’s history. This epic drama is set thousands of years before the events of J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and will take viewers back to an era in which great powers were forged, kingdoms rose to glory and fell to ruin, unlikely heroes were tested, hope hung by the finest of threads, and the greatest villain that ever flowed from Tolkien’s pen threatened to cover all the world in darkness. Beginning in a time of relative peace, the series follows an ensemble cast of characters, both familiar and new, as they confront the long-feared re-emergence of evil to Middle-earth. From the darkest depths of the Misty Mountains, to the majestic forests of the elf-capital of Lindon, to the breathtaking island kingdom of Númenor, to the furthest reaches of the map, these kingdoms and characters will carve out legacies that live on long after they are gone.

The things that jump out at me:

-"they confront the long-feared re-emergence of evil to Middle-earth." I take this to mean that the show definitely starts before the forging of the Rings, with everyone's pal Annatar.

-"Kingdoms rose to glory and fell to ruin." Which kingdoms are we going to see rise and fall? Not Lindon and Numenor - they were already risen very early in the Second Age. I would laugh if it's referring to Sauron's kingdom - hey, it's accurate! - but my guess is they're planning to show the founding of Ost-in-Edhil.

-"Unlikely heroes were tested". Um... who? The only possibility I can come up with is Isildur (based on his early characterisation as a doubter), but he can't be Season One, surely? Another option could be Elrond... I guess... if you re-characterised him a lot.

-"hope hung by the finest of threads". Not... in the mid-Second Age it didn't. Hope for the Eldar, maybe, but even if Sauron had taken Lindon and claimed the Three, Numenor and Mirkwood wouldn't have seen any change.

-"an ensemble cast of characters, both familiar and new". Does this mean 'original and canon characters' (we knew that), or does it mean 'Third Age characters and purely Second Age ones'? If the latter, it implies that Galadriel and Elrond will be playing substantial roles, since they're the only characters familiar to movie fans who are really around in the 2A.

-"From the darkest depths of the Misty Mountains..." Khazad-Dum confirmed!

-"...to the majestic forests of the elf-capital of Lindon..." Now that's a weird artistic choice. If you're trying to highlight that this isn't the Third Age, why would you set Lindon in a forest, like Lorien? Oh... unless you just think 'elves = trees'.

-"...to the breathtaking island kingdom of Númenor..." We knew that.

-"...to the furthest reaches of the map." That's got to be Umbar, right? The only other option is those mountains in the east (Tolkien's mountains which shouldn't exist), which would imply... evil dwarves, maybe?

Overall, this is basically what you'd write if you were told nothing but "It's the Second Age". Still no actual information.

hS

[Boromir88]

I'm not sure what we're all worried about, it's not like the AUJ didn't have nudity. At least if you count the Extended Edition of it. You can catch a long distance shot of some CGI dwarf butts for about 5 seconds as they publicly bathe in Rivendell, in front of the disapproving Lindir. Can you believe that prude?

Anyway, it's a low standard to pass, any nudity that's not CGI naked dwarves bathing will be a positive for the series.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Anyway, it's a low standard to pass, any nudity that's not CGI naked dwarves bathing will be a positive for the series.

If the Hobbit films plus GoT are the examples they're looking at, this is going to be a large pile of worm-filth worthy of Glaurung himself.