The Barrow-Downs

[Joy]

Last night, I was re-reading the section "Fog on the Barrow Downs." I have a couple of questions.

First: Tom Bombadil rescues the hobbits and places a pile of treasure on a hill "free to all finders, birds, beasts, Elves or Men, and all kindly creatures."

It states that he chose for himself a brooch set with blue stones, many-shaded like flax-flowers or the wings of blue butterflies. He looked long at it, as if stirred by some memory, shaking his head, and saying at last:

Here's a pretty toy for Tom and for his lady! Fair was she who long ago wore this on her shoulder. Goldberry shall wear it now, and we will not forget her!

Who was this woman that Tom is speaking of?

Second question. A little later in the same chapter it states:

Few now remember them... yet still some go wandering, sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding from evil things folk that are heedless.

I know that this is speaking of the Dunédan, Aragorn and his people, but the next line is what I am wondering about.

The hobbits did not understand his words, but as he spoke they had a vision as it weere of a great expanse of years behind them, like a vast shadowy plain over which there strode shapes of Men, tall and grim with bright swords, and last came one with a star on his brow.

Is this speaking of Aragon in the future or is this speaking of another? Maybe Elendil, Isildur or even Beren?

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

[Joy]

The hobbits did not understand his words, but as he spoke they had a vision as it weere of a great expanse of years behind them, like a vast shadowy plain over which there strode shapes of Men, tall and grim with bright swords, and last came one with a star on his brow.

Just has another thought, could it be Eãrendil?

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

[Raefindel]

I always assumed it was Aragorn, but as I've stated on another thread I've never read the Sil.

[Bruce MacCulloch]

Who was this woman that Tom is speaking of?

He's speaking of Goldberry, his wife. She is there all through the sections of the book dealing with Tom.

[Joy]

Bruce, what I meant to say was - who was the orignal woman who wore the brooch?

Fair was she who long ago wore this on her shoulder.

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

[Bruce MacCulloch]

Sorry - I misread your question.
My answer to that question is "Hrm, good question!" [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Raefindel]

Woah! You stumped the Bruce! I didn't think it was possible! He knows everything! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Thingol]

The men that Tom referrs to are the Dunédan of the North that fell to the Witch King of Angmar. It is said that Frodo was imprissoned in the tomb of the last prince of Cardoland. The lady that the brooch belonged to was probbly a queen or princess of Cardoland. There were 3 houses of Dunédan of the North, Ruhdar, Cardoland, and Arthedain (spelling is slightly off, its late) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Man-of-the-Wold]

It states that he chose for himself a brooch set with blue stones, many-shaded like flax-flowers or the wings of blue butterflies. He looked long at it, as if stirred by some memory, shaking his head, and saying at last:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Here's a pretty toy for Tom and for his lady! Fair was she who long ago wore this on her shoulder. Goldberry shall wear it now, and we will not forget her!'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who was this woman that Tom is speaking of?

Well, it certainly isn't Goldberry, because Bombadil intends to give the brooch to his lady, so that they might both remember her of whom he speaks. It is generally assumed that this was some princess or lady of the Cardolan Dúnedain, who for several generations dwelt in the Barrow-Downs area, which had long before been an Eddaic burial area, as well. As decendents of Elf-friends, these people should naturally have been friends with Tom and Goldberry. She may have been one of the last ones, who died with the Great Plague, since the Barrow that was being exposed was definitely Dúneddaic (witness the daggers for the Hobbits), and it is rumored to be that of the Last Prince of the Cardolan royal family. It seems fitting to remember such a Dúnedain as the great and beautiful person that she would have been, despite the tragic circumstances of Arnor and its divisions, and also, although it is not such a great expanse of time in the context of the all the Books, not to mention Tom's supposed existence, this Cardolan noble women would have lived well over a thousand years prior.

[Joy]

Thank you very much Thingol. I was thinking that it had to do with the Witch-King, but wasn't sure.

and last came one with a star on his brow.

I was thinking that maybe this was the battle when the Silmarlis was stolen back from Melkor.

[Joy]

Thank you man-of-the-world. Your insights have helped me much.

[Scapegoat]

I always thought that Bombadil's vision was of the Rangers and the man with the star on his brow was Aragorn. The Rangers did not come into existence until the fall of the North Kingdom, so Beren, Earendil, Elendil, etc., were not actually Rangers. The star on his brow probably represents the Star of Elendil, called the Elendilmir, that was one of the heirlooms of the North Kingdom. It was used by the Kings of Arnor instead of a crown. It was worn by Aragorn at his coronation. Note the descripton, '...but his head was bear save for a star upon his forehead bound by a slender fillet of silver.' [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Joy]

Speaking of Eärendil the Encyclopedia of Arda has this to say.

He now sails the high airs with the Silmaril upon his brow, shining as the morning and evening star.

This was the reason that I was thinkin that the vision that Frodo had at the Barrow-Downs could have been him.

For those of you who read this before 12:15 on Feb 23, I'm sorry if I confused you. My sentence structure was way off.

[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Joy:
[QB]Speaking of Eärendil the Encyclopedia of Arda has this to say.

This was the reason that I was thinkin that the vision that Frodo had at the Barrow-Downs could have been him.

Just wanted to bump this up. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[avarerniliel]

I always thought the man with the star on his brow was Aragorn, after all he does have connections with elves and the higher up species.

[littlemanpoet]

Could the brooch have belonged to Firiel, wife of the last king in the north?

[Joy]

Thank you littlemanpoet, I will check the info on Firiel.

The Ency of Arda says of Firiel - "The daughter of King Ondoher of Gondor, who was wedded to Arvedui, the last King of Arthedain. It was in part through his marriage to Fíriel that Arvedui claimed the throne of Gondor after the loss of Ondoher, but his claim was rejected. "

If she was of Gondor, why would her body be in the North, near the Shire?

[Joy]

Never mind the location, just checked some more info. Firiel fahter was King of Arthedain, in which belonged the Shire. I did not realize that Arnor was in that area.

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

I like the idea of it being Earendil in that vision, very poetic, but I suspect Scapegoat is correct and it refers to Aragorn and the star of the high kings of Gondor.

But the poetic intimations and references of this passage are rich, implying Aragorn will be taking up the heritage of his ancestors, including Earendil. So in that sense, whoever picked up on that reference is correct.

It also implies in the image that he will be very nearly (but not quite, he's walking on the ground so it's a slightly more earthbound image) of the stature of Earendil, nearly as great.