Bilbo and the Ring: A Question - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

thewarrior33 · 01-03-2011, 04:15 PM

Hey everyone. I just finished reading Return of the King and I must admit I thought the ending very unhappy. I felt sad for Sam, who went through so much for Frodo but still had to endure the loss of his friend. In a way I feel this loss for him might be as hard as the loss Frodo feels since the destruction of the Ring.

A thread on this site cleared up my misgivings about Frodo having to leave. However, one major question (among many less important ones) remains. Frodo did not have the Ring nearly as long as Bilbo, and both inherited it without knowing its true importance or power. Bilbo would not have given the Ring up had Gandalf not told him to do so. Yet in the end Frodo seems much more corrupted by the Ring. He can't seem to let it go. Bilbo was excited about his new adventure after he gave up the Ring to Gandalf, and I remember Tolkien even wrote that he had a look of relief. Why this stark difference, especially given the fact that Bilbo wore the Ring many more times, and had the Ring many more years, than Frodo?

My one idea is that Frodo was not as innocent when he inherited the Ring. Unlike Bilbo, he was conscious of the innocence of Shire folk before he inherited the Ring. He also had correspondence with the Elves. So maybe, given that he was more worldly before he got the Ring compared to Bilbo, the Ring was able to take a greater hold on him? I feel like him going to Mordor and the Ring growing heavier there cannot be the only explanation for the different psychological reactions of the two characters.

Thanks to anyone who reads this obnoxiously long post, and hopefully someone much smarter than me can enlighten me.

Inziladun · 01-03-2011, 04:35 PM

Good first post, and welcome to the Downs!

I think the primary reason Frodo was more deeply affected by the Ring was the relative difference in the power of Sauron throughout most of Bilbo's possession of it as compared to when Frodo inherited it.

Bilbo found the Ring in S.A. 2941. In 2951 Sauron "declared himself openly", and "gathered power in Mordor" (dates from The Tale of Years).
By 3019, the year in which the Ring was destroyed, Sauron's power was at its zenith (sans the Ring, of course). Also, Frodo steadily traveled closer and closer to Sauron in Mordor, and the place where the Ring's power would also be at its, highest, Mt. Doom.
Bilbo never experienced the Ring under such conditions, and even so, as you note, he was barely able to let go of it.

Galadriel55 · 01-03-2011, 05:06 PM

Good question, thewarrior, and welcome! I agree with what both you and Zil have said. I'll just add that Frodo was probably easier to tempt, since (especially in his last year of the possession of the Ring) he had more goals, hard-achievable goals. Bilbo was pretty uch content in the Shire, his only wish being to "see the mountains again" and go traveling for the last time. Not much of a cause for tempting. Frodo, on the other hand, had a clear and hard-to-acieve purpose: destroy Sauron. Aside from that, there are other ones, like to survive in the wild or in the Mordor desert. The Ring tempts with what the person wants most: for Sam it's his own personal garden, for Boromir - Gondor's victory and his glory, Gollum - getting free fish every day without having to work and getting revenge on others... Frodo's teptation isn't very clear: in the beginning, he uses the Ring to hide, and later on it's just a battle between his will and the Ring's power. He definitely had more cause to be tempted than Bilbo, though.
And good thoughts, Zil and thewarrior! I agree.

PrinceOfTheHalflings · 01-03-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewarrior33

Hey everyone. I just finished reading Return of the King and I must admit I thought the ending very unhappy. I felt sad for Sam, who went through so much for Frodo but still had to endure the loss of his friend. In a way I feel this loss for him might be as hard as the loss Frodo feels since the destruction of the Ring.

A thread on this site cleared up my misgivings about Frodo having to leave. However, one major question (among many less important ones) remains. Frodo did not have the Ring nearly as long as Bilbo, and both inherited it without knowing its true importance or power. Bilbo would not have given the Ring up had Gandalf not told him to do so. Yet in the end Frodo seems much more corrupted by the Ring. He can't seem to let it go.

Four things:

1. Frodo didn't have Gandalf standing next to him at the Cracks of Doom!

2. Frodo was supposed to destroy the Ring, not just give it away. If Bilbo had been asked to destroy the Ring he probably would have been unable to do so.

3. Frodo was physically worn down by his long journey and struggle in getting to Mount Doom. He was under maximum stress and torment. Bilbo was at home, in familiar surroundings.

4. Sauron's power was at its maximum in Mordor. I don't think anyone would have had the willpower to destroy the Ring in the very place it was made (Mount Doom).

It is my opinion that in the final moments the Ring tempted Frodo with this offer "Don't destroy me, use me to overcome Sauron, then you can make the world a better place." In Frodo's weakened and confused state he succumbed to the Ring's temptation.

Galadriel55 · 01-03-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrinceOfTheHalflings

1. Frodo didn't have Gandalf standing next to him at the Crack of Doom!
...
4. Sauron's power was at its maximum in Mordor. I don't think anyone would have had the willpower to destroy the Ring in the very place it was made (Mount Doom).

True, that. Even Isildur wasn't able to destroy the Ring, with Elrond and Cirdan standing there telling him to do so.

Findegil · 01-04-2011, 06:25 AM

I agree to much that was said already, but I would like to add that one big diffence is how Bilbo and Fordo lose the Ring.

Bilbo at the one hand gives it away by his own free will, even if he needed all the help Gandalf could give.
Frodo is robbed of the Ring wihle fighting to keep it his own.

That means Bilbo could be content that he had let the Ring pass away, while Frodo either had to face the fact that he had failed in his mission, or the we had lost it to his own inability to protect it as his possession or both.

I think that this makes a huge diffrence.

Respectfuly
Findegil

thewarrior33 · 01-04-2011, 11:36 AM

I would just like to thank all the people who responded to my question. This is a really great site for those are ignorant in the nuances of the books and desire more information.

It really is a shame Frodo can't let go of the Ring. I understand his guilt (though I don't consider him a failure in the least), but I really did not expect him to so grieve the loss of the Ring. I especially feel bad for Sam, my favorite character. I don't blame Frodo for leaving, but that's a poor reward for such loyal and dedicated service from Sam. I know he left him the house, but I think Sam would rather have had his companionship.

Thanks again to everyone who provided some insight into my question. And thank you all for your warm welcome into this forum.

Findegil · 01-05-2011, 03:18 AM

Probably Frodo was right that as long as he was around Sam would have been split between his comradship to Fordo and his love for Rose and the children. May be it was the best that could hapen to Sam, even so he would not have agreed to that himself; just like the destruction of the Ring was the best that could hapen for Fordo.

Respectfuly
Findegil

Lobelia · 01-05-2011, 04:59 AM

[QUOTE=Findegil;645777]Probably Frodo was right that as long as he was around Sam would have been split between his comradship to Fordo and his love for Rose and the children. May be it was the best that could hapen to Sam, even so he would not have agreed to that himself; just like the destruction of the Ring was the best that could hapen for Fordo.

Frodo left because he was still in pain and could only be healed across the sea. Sam did eventually have the chance to go, himself. It was, indeed a good thing for Sam that Frodo went; as long as Frodo was there, the family would have to compete with "Mr Frodo". After he left, Sam was no longer the servant, but his own person, who became Mayor of the Shire and one of Aragorn's councillors. The really sad thing was Frodo having made such a sacrifice for Middle Earth and not being able to enjoy it in peace.

01-03-2011, 04:15 PM	#1
thewarrior33 Newly Deceased Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 2	Bilbo and the Ring: A Question Hey everyone. I just finished reading Return of the King and I must admit I thought the ending very unhappy. I felt sad for Sam, who went through so much for Frodo but still had to endure the loss of his friend. In a way I feel this loss for him might be as hard as the loss Frodo feels since the destruction of the Ring. A thread on this site cleared up my misgivings about Frodo having to leave. However, one major question (among many less important ones) remains. Frodo did not have the Ring nearly as long as Bilbo, and both inherited it without knowing its true importance or power. Bilbo would not have given the Ring up had Gandalf not told him to do so. Yet in the end Frodo seems much more corrupted by the Ring. He can't seem to let it go. Bilbo was excited about his new adventure after he gave up the Ring to Gandalf, and I remember Tolkien even wrote that he had a look of relief. Why this stark difference, especially given the fact that Bilbo wore the Ring many more times, and had the Ring many more years, than Frodo? My one idea is that Frodo was not as innocent when he inherited the Ring. Unlike Bilbo, he was conscious of the innocence of Shire folk before he inherited the Ring. He also had correspondence with the Elves. So maybe, given that he was more worldly before he got the Ring compared to Bilbo, the Ring was able to take a greater hold on him? I feel like him going to Mordor and the Ring growing heavier there cannot be the only explanation for the different psychological reactions of the two characters. Thanks to anyone who reads this obnoxiously long post, and hopefully someone much smarter than me can enlighten me. Last edited by thewarrior33; 01-03-2011 at 04:19 PM.

01-03-2011, 04:35 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,036	Good first post, and welcome to the Downs! I think the primary reason Frodo was more deeply affected by the Ring was the relative difference in the power of Sauron throughout most of Bilbo's possession of it as compared to when Frodo inherited it. Bilbo found the Ring in S.A. 2941. In 2951 Sauron "declared himself openly", and "gathered power in Mordor" (dates from The Tale of Years). By 3019, the year in which the Ring was destroyed, Sauron's power was at its zenith (sans the Ring, of course). Also, Frodo steadily traveled closer and closer to Sauron in Mordor, and the place where the Ring's power would also be at its, highest, Mt. Doom. Bilbo never experienced the Ring under such conditions, and even so, as you note, he was barely able to let go of it. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

01-03-2011, 05:06 PM	#3
Galadriel55 Blossom of Dwimordene Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The realm of forgotten words Posts: 10,310	Good question, thewarrior, and welcome! I agree with what both you and Zil have said. I'll just add that Frodo was probably easier to tempt, since (especially in his last year of the possession of the Ring) he had more goals, hard-achievable goals. Bilbo was pretty uch content in the Shire, his only wish being to "see the mountains again" and go traveling for the last time. Not much of a cause for tempting. Frodo, on the other hand, had a clear and hard-to-acieve purpose: destroy Sauron. Aside from that, there are other ones, like to survive in the wild or in the Mordor desert. The Ring tempts with what the person wants most: for Sam it's his own personal garden, for Boromir - Gondor's victory and his glory, Gollum - getting free fish every day without having to work and getting revenge on others... Frodo's teptation isn't very clear: in the beginning, he uses the Ring to hide, and later on it's just a battle between his will and the Ring's power. He definitely had more cause to be tempted than Bilbo, though. And good thoughts, Zil and thewarrior! I agree. __________________ You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera

01-04-2011, 11:36 AM	#7
thewarrior33 Newly Deceased Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 2	Many Thanks! I would just like to thank all the people who responded to my question. This is a really great site for those are ignorant in the nuances of the books and desire more information. It really is a shame Frodo can't let go of the Ring. I understand his guilt (though I don't consider him a failure in the least), but I really did not expect him to so grieve the loss of the Ring. I especially feel bad for Sam, my favorite character. I don't blame Frodo for leaving, but that's a poor reward for such loyal and dedicated service from Sam. I know he left him the house, but I think Sam would rather have had his companionship. Thanks again to everyone who provided some insight into my question. And thank you all for your warm welcome into this forum.

01-05-2011, 04:59 AM	#9
Lobelia Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 150	Bilbo and the Ring [QUOTE=Findegil;645777]Probably Frodo was right that as long as he was around Sam would have been split between his comradship to Fordo and his love for Rose and the children. May be it was the best that could hapen to Sam, even so he would not have agreed to that himself; just like the destruction of the Ring was the best that could hapen for Fordo. Frodo left because he was still in pain and could only be healed across the sea. Sam did eventually have the chance to go, himself. It was, indeed a good thing for Sam that Frodo went; as long as Frodo was there, the family would have to compete with "Mr Frodo". After he left, Sam was no longer the servant, but his own person, who became Mayor of the Shire and one of Aragorn's councillors. The really sad thing was Frodo having made such a sacrifice for Middle Earth and not being able to enjoy it in peace.

01-04-2011, 06:25 AM	#6
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,694	I agree to much that was said already, but I would like to add that one big diffence is how Bilbo and Fordo lose the Ring. Bilbo at the one hand gives it away by his own free will, even if he needed all the help Gandalf could give. Frodo is robbed of the Ring wihle fighting to keep it his own. That means Bilbo could be content that he had let the Ring pass away, while Frodo either had to face the fact that he had failed in his mission, or the we had lost it to his own inability to protect it as his possession or both. I think that this makes a huge diffrence. Respectfuly Findegil

01-05-2011, 03:18 AM	#8
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,694	Probably Frodo was right that as long as he was around Sam would have been split between his comradship to Fordo and his love for Rose and the children. May be it was the best that could hapen to Sam, even so he would not have agreed to that himself; just like the destruction of the Ring was the best that could hapen for Fordo. Respectfuly Findegil