Changing accents?

[Kath]

I have recently (well not recently actaully but today was the first time someone agreed with me!) noticed that during the films the accents of the main characters - especially Aragorn - change.

For example when he is at the Black Gate and he does the
"Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth!"
bit he goes very very American.

And earlier (might be in the Fellowship EE) when the stop for the night at Weathertop he says
"We will rest here tonight"
and his accent goes really Welsh.

Anyone else noticed this or found other examples of it with Aragorn or other characters?

[Nimrodel_9]

As a matter of fact I have noticed, especially with Aragorn, and occasionally Sam. But remember, Viggo Mortensen and Sean Astin are American, and the accents are fakes. I think that one would forget to speak with an accents at times. I was in a play once, and played a pirate captain. I had a huge speaking part, and I would be so busy trying to get all of the lines right, I would completely forget about my British/Pirate accent. It happens.

[Encaitare]

I have noticed the same thing with Viggo Mortensen -- it's all in his R's. He does do a very American R in "Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth!" and also in FotR "...yourself, Mister Underhill." Every R there is Americanized too, made somewhat harsher and drawn out. Yet when he says, "Men of Gondor! Of Rohan! My brothers! ... the same fear that would take the heart of me..." the R's are less pronouced, in a more European English sort of way.

It wouldn't bother me if he just chose one and stuck with it -- he seems to shift in and out of dialects constantly. Oh well. What are you gonna do.

[ninlaith]

Yes! I've been waiting for someone to mention that. i love Viggo all in all but i did notice his accent changed alot...I don't know maybe he just couldn't find the right one for awhile. But the time when I noticed it the absolute most was during Elronds Council when he said "You cannot weild it! None of us can! The One Ring answers to Sauron alone..it has no other master!" I feel so bad every time I listen to that. I know exactly how he feels...my last play in highschool I had to use a New York accent for my part..all through play practice I was getting so comfortable with the character that I would just forget..it didn't happen during the show thank goodness.

[Encaitare]

Well, let's give Viggo the benefit of the doubt: everything was filmed very much out of order. Perhaps it did take him a while to settle into the role and decide how Aragorn should speak, and so maybe if we watched the scenes in the actual order they were filmed, it would seem less jumpy.

Maybe.

[Elianna]

The one example of changing accents that really sticks out in my mind is Elijah's in the EE scene with the box of salt "I think I found the bottom." seems much rounder o's (that right?) than even the rest of the scene.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I have noticed it too. It really reminds me that I'm watching a film as opposed to seeing the real story unfold in front of me. However, it is a quirk of the films which I take some enjoyment from. It is very amusing to see people put on accents (and, of course, this is a phenomena not contained merely by these three films but by many).

And ninlaith, that 'Gorn line ("You cannot wield it!") is possibly the funniest of all the films.

[Neferchoirwen]

I appreciate it, though, that Sam's accent in the films didn't use an all-too-typically-naive Yorkshire accent. I thought that Sam used the Yorkshire accent after I read the books and seen the films. Much to my surprise, that is.

[Kath]

One of my favourites is when he says "it has no other master!".
He just sounds so odd, like he needs a drink or something.

[Elennar Starfire]

Hmm, I didn't notice! But that might be because I do that rather often myself...switch accents without meaning to, or even noticing. I only know I do it because people point it out to me...

[The Only Real Estel]

One of my favourites is when he says "it has no other master!".

Actually, it sounds to me like he needs some nasal decongestant.

[Evisse the Blue]

I didn't notice the accent thing with Viggo, till you guys mentioned it, but I did notice it with Sean Astin. He is trying so hard to speak with a British accent, but most of the times it comes out wrong, somehow forced. Elijah does a much better job of it.

But I agree that sometimes Viggo's voice has a ... nasal quality, to quote Estel. And sometimes, like when he says "he's been stabbed by a Morgul blade", his voice sounds high pitched somehow. This also happens during his speech in ROTK and any time he tries to yell out things.

[mark12_30]

Viggo is ultra-softspoken... Wwhich, the way they've re-defined Aragorn for the films, is actually rather appropriate. This exiled, forgotten guy who spends his time tramping the woodland paths, is suddenly pressed into leadership-- and he's not used to it.

THink about it-- he's nore used to acting, and being considered as, a thug! "A little more caution from you, that is no trinket you carry." "I avoid being seen if I wish..." All very whispery, sotto-voce, kind of gangsterish, shadowy. "He's one o' them rangers."

And now, here we are, at the Council of Elrond, and this roguish woodland ranger-- who happens to have an elvish girlfriend, a mother with some real bloodlines, and the respect of some nearby elves-- is suddenly taking part in his (first?) Grand Council.

Upstart.

No wonder Boromir was unimpressed!

He really does grow in to his role. Book-Strider gives plenty of speeches, often starting with his long list of names.... but not Movie Strider. How many "rally the troops" speeches does Movie-Strider actually give? I can think of three. Okay, four!

1. Just outside Moria after Gandalf falls: "Soon these hills will be swarming with orcs. Get them up!"

2. After Boromir dies: "I will not abandon Merry and Piipin to torture and death. We travel light. Let's hunt some orc." (some like this line, some don't.)

3. Elves in Helm's Deep

4. Before the Gate...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Evisse the Blue

I did notice it with Sean Astin. He is trying so hard to speak with a British accent, but most of the times it comes out wrong, somehow forced. Elijah does a much better job of it.

As an Englishman myself, I thought that Sean did a better job than Elijah. Although Sean had the more difficult job, being as he was required to put on a "regional" English accent.

Originally Posted by Neferchoirwen

I thought that Sam used the Yorkshire accent after I read the books and seen the films.

Actually, it was more West Country than Yorkshire.

And while we're on accents, while I thought that Billy Boyd gave a great performance, I just can't get used to Pippin having a Scottish accent. Merry's West Country burr seems to me to be much more appropriate for a Hobbit. And it would make more sense if their accents were similar (although there is, I suppose, scope for regional variations within the Shire). Apparently Billy was orginally supposed to have the same accent as Merry but he couldn't maintain it with sufficient consistency, so they let him carry on with his natural accent.

[Encaitare]

And while we're on accents, while I thought that Billy Boyd gave a great performance, I just can't get used to Pippin having a Scottish accent.

It doesn't really make sense, but his "Mission. Quest. Theng." is priceless.

[Elianna]

Well, Tuckborough is a good distance from Buckland, so it makes sense to me that Pip and Merry would have different accents.

I think I've heard an explanation of Pip's Scottish accent, having something to do with hints of the Tooks being Scottish; one point was their invention of Golf. It might have been on the extras of the FotR DVD...

[Kath]

Back to something mark12_30 said:
Just outside Moria after Gandalf falls: "Soon these hills will be swarming with orcs. Get them up!"
All the time Aragorn speaks here is accent is very odd, though I'm not sure how to describe this one!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

...golf is a fine explanation Elianna, but maybe excessive alcohol intake could be another?

I am, after all, allowed to ponder such national stereotypes.

[Mithalwen]

Although, I felt Dom Monaghan was the most convincing of the four hobbits .... I half hoped that Merry might have a slightly Welsh accent, because of Buckland representing the "celtic" fringe of the Shire. But I guess that to have Welsh and Scottish would be too much.

As for Viggo, I wondered if the strangeness of the accent was because he was allowing Danish influences in? But I didn't to much trouble with the multi-lingual multi-cultural Aragorn having a varying accent. I thought Liv was having to try quite hard with her British accent but I guessit was obviously a lot easier for Hugo Weaving who was raised here and Cate Blanchett who lives here........

But Sean Astin's was all over the place.....

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

As a distinguished ( ) actor myself, I shall now offer a claim strong and vain; that it is easy to act and to put on a convincing accent, especially in a project as big and as edited as The Lord of the Rings. I mean, how many opportunities do the guys have to perform one line just right?

(To note, I am not criticising the mentioned actors. I am just arguing that there's no real excuse for not getting an accent right. Please argue with me. )

[Imladris]

I wonder if "changing accents" gets put in the same bucket as "the scar is over the right eye in this scene yet over the left eye in that scene."

[Elennar Starfire]

Although, I felt Dom Monaghan was the most convincing of the four hobbits .... I half hoped that Merry might have a slightly Welsh accent, because of Buckland representing the "celtic" fringe of the Shire. But I guess that to have Welsh and Scottish would be too much.

Too much? Nay, indeed 'twould never be enough.
(at least for such people as myself...but then, I'm very strange...)

I think I've heard an explanation of Pip's Scottish accent, having something to do with hints of the Tooks being Scottish; one point was their invention of Golf. It might have been on the extras of the FotR DVD...

The director's commentary perhaps? I remember that, though not where it was. I'm fairly sure it was in a commentary.

[Morquesse]

I never really noticed that Viggo had various accents, I'll have to pay attention next time.

Sam always sounded like he spoke with an American accent and rural British frases: "there's nothin' for it" and "if you understand me", to name a few. I'm not sure if he spoke in a British accent ever.

Elijah did a pretty convincing job, exept in one spot: where he and Sam camped outsidd after seeing the Elves. After Sam complained about a root sticking in his back, Frodo tells him to think of his bed at home. Elijah's line right there sounded SO American, it distracts me.

~M

[Encaitare]

Sam always sounded like he spoke with an American accent and rural British frases: "there's nothin' for it" and "if you understand me", to name a few. I'm not sure if he spoke in a British accent ever.

Having very little first-hand experience with British accents, I can't really pass judgment on whether he spoke with one or not -- but it certainly was not an American accent. Perhaps somewhere in between... any Brit Downers wish to comment on it?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I am just arguing that there's no real excuse for not getting an accent right. Please argue with me.

OK then.

I do think that it is very difficult for someone to nail an accent such that it sounds faultless to a native speaker. Some people have the knack for mimicry, but it is not something that necessarily goes hand-in-hand with acting ability.

Personally, I'm hopeless at accents. Then again, I'm no actor. Not since my Uni days, at least.

Originally Posted by Morquesse

Sam always sounded like he spoke with an American accent and rural British frases: "there's nothin' for it" and "if you understand me", to name a few. I'm not sure if he spoke in a British accent ever.

As I said, I thought he did pretty well given that he was going for a regional English accent. Not perfect, but he was certainly no Dick Van Dyke.

[Mithalwen]

Gor Blimey Mary Poppins.....

I thinkI read somewhere that at first the Elves were meant to speak with an "accent" to show that Westron wasn't their language and then they decided against it.

I have to say though that although I liked the way he played Boromir, Sean Bean's Yorkshire accent jarred because Faramir and Denethor spoke standard English. It seemed a shame when they had picked actors who looked plausible as a family group, that they hadn't synchronised accents.

[Boromir88]

Hey atleast Mr. Mortensen shows that he can change accents. Mr. Bloom has the same accent as an Elf, pirate, and Trojan .

[Kath]

I'm a Brit Encaitare and no Sam didn't have a British accent, phrases yes accent no. He still uses hard A's most of the time and English people don't.

[Evisse the Blue]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

(To note, I am not criticising the mentioned actors. I am just arguing that there's no real excuse for not getting an accent right. Please argue with me. )

Well, I for one won't argue with you. I agree. And I'm not criticising the actors either (well, not much anyway); but there were two dialect coaches in the team. I figured they were there to help with the Elvish language and the pronunciacion of the names, but they messed up here as well. Have you noticed that names like Mordor or Gandalf are mispronounced? Chris Lee can tell them that the 'a' in Gandalf is pronounced like the vowel in "come', but the majority of the cast will still pronounce it as in 'came', which would be bearable, but for a minority of the cast who pronounces it correctly and so you have two different ways of pronouncing it - and even the same character might use both of them at one point or another in the story: I'm going to pick on of poor Viggo again, because I'm almost sure he pronounces Gandalf in both ways. It may sound like nitpicking, but it sure takes away a bit of the realism of the story; it's these little details that somehow count.

SPM - I stand corrected, if you as a Brit tell me that Sean did a better job with accents than Elijah. Although I still hold that this is not how it sounds to my profane ears.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

This is going off on a slight tangent but I think it's worth a mention here. Why did no-one working on the films notice that Gandalf pronounced the word wrath as 'Roth' yet Theoden pronounced it as 'Rath'? That irks me no end!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I don't see a problem there, Eomer - why shouldn't people from different countries pronounce the same word differently? Just listen to the many different pronunciations for English words all over our own earth! Even those whose native language is English - U.S., Canada, Australia, England, Ireland, Scotland and more - have great variations in pronunciation.

[Lalwendë]

I have to say though that although I liked the way he played Boromir, Sean Bean's Yorkshire accent jarred because Faramir and Denethor spoke standard English. It seemed a shame when they had picked actors who looked plausible as a family group, that they hadn't synchronised accents.

One of my favourite things about Sean Bean in the films was how he failed to hide that fantastic Sheffield accent! It had me imagining that when the plot finally arrived at Minas Tirith, its seven levels would somehow be transformed into the seven hills of Sheffield and the Gondorians would be saying 'thee' and 'rayt' and 'duck' all of the time! I was sorely disappointed. *wonders if Sean Bean was offering round bags of 'spice' on set and confusing people...*

Seriously, I think that Sean Bean is from a 'school' of British actors who have been trained not to lose their accents entirely. If you notice, Bernard Hill also retains vestiges of his accent - for a good example listen to him when he is talking to Gandalf after Theodred's burial - "No parent should have to bury their child". My dad reckons he sounds almost like Yosser Hughes* there. Having said all of the above though, Ian McKellen has definitely lost his Bolton accent.

*from Boys From the Blackstuff.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Concerning the word wrath, I don't think it was an intentional case of having a Wizard and a Man of Rohan pronouncing a word differently to 'shake things up', so to speak.

Perhaps I am wrong but I have always had the impression (and my somewhat unreliable dictionary agrees with me! ) that rath is an incorrect pronounciation of the word. To add to this, from a 'booking' point of view, I think it made King Theoden look bad to have Gandalf practically correct him a few minutes later.

But Bob knows I am as fallible as they come so please don't hesitate to correct me if I am mistaken.

[Essex]

The only time I hear a real change in viggo's accent is in the room across the road from the Pony in Bree, where his 'Sauron the Deceiver' speech sometimes goes mid atlantic.

But I personally believe the actors did a great job with their accents, especially Elijah Wood. I don't remember him once going back to his yank accent. Maybe Sean Anstis did a few times, but not enough to spoil my enjoyment. (and I'm half English / Irish)

I'm seen countless films where people can't speak the accent correctly, mainly when they have to use an Southern Irish one. To me, this is one of the hardest accents to convey correctly. (The only person in TV/films I've seen do it perfectly is Paul Whitehouse as the farmer in the Fast Show)

A 'posh' English accent is not that hard to do really, but I think the guys get it pretty much right.

PS I liked the radio 4 lotr adaptation where they had Strider start off with a West Country accent when first speaking with the hobbits (probably in an attempt to blend in with the locals at Bree) and then it slowly changes into the more 'Posh' accent he finishes off with.

PPS Great movie accents of our time:

Dick van dyke in Mary Poppins (as mentioned earlier in this thread, um didle didle didle um diddy eye)

Kevin Costner's mid-atlantic Robin Hood

Sean Connery's Scottish accented Irish man in The Untouchables

Keanu Reeves's English (not!) accent as Harker in Dracula (though the lovely Winona Ryder did a great job)

and many others no doubt........

[Rimbaud]

For me, it is Astin's performance accent-wise that is the weakest. I particularly hark to the line after Weathertop, "What are ya doin'?! Those wraiths are still out there!" Not a Yorkshire-burr by any stretch. Much more...Californian...

As for the other non-Brits, I think Mortenson does rather well, Wood is steady if overall unconvincing, and Tyler just sounds like she has her mouth full. I won't even mention Agent Elrond, because it's just too painful.

[Mithalwen]

Actually, I am fairly sure that Agent Elrond is a Brit, at least technically, despite his long term domicile in Aus. He was educated at Bristol Cathedral school (and looked so cute in his choirboy gear!) so I think his accent is actually genuine.. and it makes me go weak at the knees .

I agree about Sean Bean - and he resolutely kept his accent in the Scottish play BUT while I don't object to regional accents as such, I just felt that it was inconsistent .. I spent all of FOTR wondering also if Gondor was going to be twinned with the South Riding!! And given that all the Aussies managed pretty good accentless english .....

Oh, I really think that Costner's Robin Hood is maybe even worse than Dick van Dyke's. It was ages before I could watch that film long enough to see the divine Alan Rickman - the first time it appeared on TV, I saw Costner land at ostensibly at Dover, and announce "Tonight we will dine at my fathers house in Nardingham" and laughed so much that I feared internal injury. That would be quite a trek even today (the necessity of negotiating London's orbital carpark still outweighed by the greater speed provided by the car over the horse!) but in the 12th century? Especially since they seemed to go via Hadrian's wall if I remember right... At least it is a good reminder that there are greater film travesties than Haldir arriving at Helm's Deep :P

[Encaitare]

Do allow me to put my dorky knowlegde to use.

The one and only Mr. Hugo Weaving was born in Nigeria on April 4, 1960, to British parents. He lived in England for three years, and moved to Australia to stay, at the age of sixteen. He now has an Aussie accent, although not a la Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin... thank goodness. So, he seems like a bit of a mutt. Thanks to me and my best friend, our entire Euro history class last year was taught all about Hugo... *sigh*

I think his accent is actually genuine.. and it makes me go weak at the knees. --Mith

How about what Fran Walsh dubbed "the sexy cold voice" in the scene between Elrond and Gandalf in Rivendell? I love Hugo wayyyyy too much.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Encaitare

How about what Fran Walsh dubbed "the sexy cold voice" in the scene between Elrond and Gandalf in Rivendell? I love Hugo wayyyyy too much.

That was what I was thinking of ... and Morrrrrrrdorrrrrrrrrrr well ......... *swoons*

Hugo Wallace Weaving ... yes... hmm..... worth sitting through Matrix Revolutions for.......

[Nimrodel_9]

One of the lines that bothered me the most in FotR EE, was one of Sean Astin`s, spoken to Elijah. It is in the scene where they`re camped for the night after traveling down part of the Great River.

You haven`t eaten anythin` all day. And your not sleepin` either. Don`t think I haven`t noticed.

It really irks me, because he never speaks like that in any other scene in the trilogy.

[Kath]

Harking back to something Evisse the Blue said quite a while ago about the proper way of pronouncing Gandalf - I've never heard that it's said Gandolf, I thought that ws just an American thing?