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Old 12-21-2002, 02:25 PM   #121
lorien de loth
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A movie is a movie and a book is a book, that's ok. But PJ's TTT is a simple american movie with all its topics. (great special and digital effects, and great horses! great gollum!) ... but in some parts of the film, specially in some dialogues, it seems that PJ or his screenwritters think that we are stupid people. FOTR really touched me, it was an original movie, but TTT left me cold.<BR>I hope that the last part of the trilogy will mend it.<P>Barrowdowns Forum, still the best!
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Old 12-21-2002, 04:56 PM   #122
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My impression of TTT was ACK, bogus, snif, sigh, groan for all the formentioned and well spoken complaints. I will say that visually they handled the Ents and flood at Isengard well. Though after bothering to show the Entmoot, why they have the Ents turn around and act so hastily remains a mystery.<P>My thoughts to you all are...<BR>Please be patient with those of us in grief over our disappointment. If we can not express our selves to fellow LOTR nuts who can we vent too? Our goldfish?
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Old 12-21-2002, 05:20 PM   #123
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Please be patient with those of us in grief over our disappointment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, please be patient. After all, isn't this thread here for people to say whether they liked it or not and why? Yes, it is.
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Old 12-21-2002, 05:28 PM   #124
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Willie, I assume that the people who you feel have mis-interpreted Tolkien because of Peter Jackson's movie adaptation, the one that you have to see "5 times a week," are the people at your school. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't wish to wax philosophical a lá "the old guy from the Karate Kid" on a movie thread, but it was Sartre who memorably wrote that "hell is other people," and stemming from that I would like to say to you and everyone else (including Túroch) that eventually we all learn to live in close proximity to "hell," and enjoy life regardless.<P>In plain terms, it <I>sucks</I> when other people appear to take something that you love and enjoy and horribly misunderstand it, such as the kids who won't stop babbling about "the cool Elves at Helm's Deep" and other tripe, but you run through the gamut of feeling the emotions, and then you put them on a shelf, and <I>then</I> you are able to asses Peter Jackson's efforts with clear eyes.<P>And Willie, sweets, I have amassed an embarassingly large number of posts after a year of hanging out here, and engaging in <I>fun</I> conversation. There are fun things to do besides sitting at a computer and talking Tolkien, but the level of humor and intelligence is, for better or for worse, sometimes higher at the Barrow Downs than in real life. I am a relative newbie here compared to some, but I hope it stays that way. <P>P.S. Telling someone to "leave" is no way out of an intelligent argument, and I am positive that we are all striving to keep intelligence somewhat of a "hallmark" of this forum. <P>P.P.S. If you take the time to get to know me, you will soon realize that it's very hard to "surprise" me with an array of curse-words, no matter how artfully arranged. But you didn't take the time, did you? You have broken my heart by your lack of interest, perhaps more so than Peter Jackson has broken yours. <P>P.P.P.S. Personal issues aside, if any of you do get around to writing Peter Jackson, don't forget to ask him where Narsil went; and remind him that since he has chosen to introduce it in "RotK" the introduction ought to be a worthy one...It would be very funny if they end up "forgetting" it though. Funny ha ha.
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Old 12-21-2002, 05:50 PM   #125
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Thanks for the insights. Yes, those were the people that I was referring to. I think I, and many others, just need time to accept what he has done. What PJ has done cannot be changed and that's what's so frustrating. Some topics are fun while others aren't. Right now, its not that fun, but already the mood seems to be getting better.<P>I shouldn't ask you to leave. Sorry. I mean that you shouldn't complain about others complaining. Sorry again.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> You have broken my heart by your lack of interest <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Really? Well I'm sorry. Anyone have any super-glue? I hope I can put it back together. But please explain what you mean by 'lack of interest'. I'll probably disagree.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> if any of you do get around to writing Peter Jackson <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Look at this thread <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=001509" TARGET=_blank>Letter to PJ </A>.
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Old 12-22-2002, 07:41 AM   #126
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Well, I've finally seen it. <P>Hmph. <P>Well. I wouldn't call that a wasted $9, but I'm probably not going to see this one over and over again. It's an odd film.<P>Overall, it reminds me of an old grandfather that starts an exciting story, wanders off the point and by the time he gets back to the original idea the excitement's gone.<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI> The pacing was strange. Fast in the beginning. Slow in the middle. And kind of fast at the end, but in a syrupy slow motion kind of way. It wasn't powerful.<BR><LI> There was a lack of dramatic tension after the scenes of Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli chasing the orcs. How Amon Hen became more intense than Helm's Deep I'll never know.<BR><LI> The plot twists were a little odd. Aragorn gets injured and wanders off - why? How does this forward the story?<BR><LI> Treebeard is tricked into attacking Isengard, but all the other ents just happen to be around? It's not even a clever ruse.<BR><LI> The section in Osgiliath is poorly thought out. Characters wander in without being introduced. Faramir - no matter how he's portrayed - is not developed at all, he's a non-entity. <BR><LI> Not-so-sympathetic hero. The weak Frodo, offering himself up as virgin sacrifice and attacking his friend leaves a bad taste in the mouth. We are supposed to respect him? Why?<BR><LI> The use of a narrator in the middle of the movie is startling, inconsistent and strange.<BR><LI> Characters are given too many speeches, at odd intervals. Sam's speech is particularly long and syrupy. Gollum's is excessive.<BR><LI> Gollum hogs screen time in general. His multiple personality syndrom is beaten to death. We get it, we get it. He has two sides. </UL> <P>It was not a particularly good movie. Not awful. Just... lukewarm.<P>I'm concerned PJ has left too much for the third movie for it to be very good either.<P>-Maril<P><BR>PS: Funny. I have the impression that directors got so excited about their new ideas in the editing process, they forget the audience. Thus paid only cursory attention to the main storyline.
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Old 12-22-2002, 09:16 AM   #127
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I am a huge fan of fotr, and have the utmost respect for pj and all the cast and crew. When I went 2 see fotr in the cinema for the first time I was blown away, it was the best film i had ever seen, but whilst leaving i heard several people complaining loudly about the 'spoilers' caused by the deviations from the books. <P>At that moment I decided not to read the books until I had seen every one of the movies, in that way i could avoid this sort of dissapointment, and could judge the movie by its own merits. I have faithfully stayed true to this.<P>I have not yet seen TTT, and am going tonight, but all the comments made along the lines of: If you don't make a movie for the fans, whom do you make it for?<BR>irritated me extremely. I may not be a huge fan of the books (yet ) but that does not mean that I should suffer as a audience member because of the fanaticism shown by some to the absolute faithfulness to JRRT's books. Movies and books are totally seperate anomally's, and can only be linked and compared to a certain extent.<P>The plot would have to be changed somewhat so that it could be shown visually, if pj had tried to incorporate every detail of the books each movie would probably have ended up about 9 hours long, it just isn't practical.<P>It is ridiculous to believe that a film can ever provide the same levels of characterisation as a book, it's just not possible, this has been proven throughout the life of cinema.<P>And I found the suggestion that the films are purely for fans of the books downright insulting. Two of my greatest friends have since watching the film read lotr, the silmarillion, learnt basic elvish, redecorated and designed their whole style of life to include the genius of JRRT (every piece of furniture or jewellery bought by them must look elvish ) <BR>If it hadn't been for the films they may have never discovered this whole world. Yet your whole attitude suggests that they are of no importance, since they have not been lifelong fans. <P>Sorry if this seems an overly strong reaction, and I am perfectly happy to respect other peoples opinions, but I have found the greater part of this thread extremely insulting.<BR>
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Old 12-22-2002, 12:01 PM   #128
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I felt a little empty , I am afraid to say. Too much hype left me feeling I was either in the wrong film, or the projectionist had done his own editing. I get the distict feeling we'll get a stack of new scenes in the enivitable DVD extended edition next year. It will all make sense then !<BR> I too think maybe I should give it another chance and go and see it again. I won't lie though, I was yawning at some points. <BR> The Aragorn love triangle, was a tad rushed and made no sense to me?? Did I miss something? <BR> What ever happend to Frodo, I think the ring should have been given to Sam, he's got more umpf in one of his big toes than Frodo had in his whole ( still sweet) little body. <BR> I think Gollom stole the show and of course Gimley and Legolas, the best part of the battle of helms Deep, was those two totting up their killings.<BR> I really don't want to be negative, and I am sure it must have been a hard task to fit the mammomth story into 3hrs, but for the sweet love of the shire, it would have been nice to weave less bumpf into what is already a complicated story line anyhow.<BR> Still I have told all I know to go and see it, but now you know why half the cast like " Return of the King " better, maybe these films will pale compared to that one.<P> It would be interesting though what people think of it if they saw it a second time <BR>
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Old 12-22-2002, 03:22 PM   #129
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Nessiastar: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think the ring should have been given to Sam <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Frodo got the ring in the books and the movie is based on the books. That's why Frodo got it and not Sam. Have you read the books? If you haven't, you should, they're great. If Sam got the ring, then the amount of anger and frustration over unnecessary changes would be a lot greater. <P>Ringfenwen: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> If you don't make a movie for the fans, whom do you make it for?<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Tell me, if there really were not a lot of fans out there, do you think PJ woiuld be allowed 850 million$ to make the movie. PJ got so much funding because the people/companies who gave the funding knew that already there are so many fans out there and allowing PJ to go all out in making this movie is no problem because at least half the fans will like/love it. If there were no fans or not a lot, he'd still be able make the movie but there's no way he'd get that funding. Those people wouldn't know if the movie will earn back even close to as much as PJ got. It's us fans. Without our third-party support, PJ would never have been able to make it. And if he did, with the low funding he would have, it wouldn't be that great at all. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I may not be a huge fan of the books (yet ) but that does not mean that I should suffer as a audience member because of the fanaticism shown by some to the absolute faithfulness to JRRT's books. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>How should you suffer? I do not want to deprive anyone of Tolkien's works. Everyone should have their experience. But you would not suffer. If PJ did the job he should have, then watching the movie would be like reading the book. You would have nothing to worry about. You wouldn't be deprived of anything at all. In fact the movie would be better and most everyone would be happy. And I'll say it again. You, as an audience member, and any other, would not suffer. So calm down because you have nothing to worry about. If it turned out the way most of us wished it to, then no one would suffer at all. And if you still think you would, then what are you complainimg about? It's done and we can't change it. You have nothing to worry about. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The plot would have to be changed somewhat so that it could be shown visually, if pj had tried to incorporate every detail of the books each movie would probably have ended up about 9 hours long, it just isn't practical.<P>It is ridiculous to believe that a film can ever provide the same levels of characterisation as a book, it's just not possible, this has been proven throughout the life of cinema.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It can't provide the same levels of characterisation as the book. But no one thought it could. No one went into the theaters thinking it would be the same. We knew some stuff would be changed, but what we were thinking and hoping for was that it would stay relatively close to the books. But our hopes were shattered. Some people's favorite parts/characters were deformed and twisted in a friekishly manner or just simply left out. Now, in FotR, the left out my favorite part in any of Tolkien's works. They left out the Old Forest, Tom Bombadil, and especially the Barrow Downs. Now PJ said that he would stick as closely to the book as possible and not make any unnecessary changes. He said he had to cut out parts that didn't necessarily pertain to Frodo or the quest of the ring. So as mad as I was, I could understand. But what about Arwen? That was an unnecessary change, but I could let it go. But look at it now! PJ just butchered the poor thing. Arwen who wan't even mentioned in TTT got more screenplay than Eomer. Poor, poor Turoch, and I'm sure many others feel teh same way. And what about Faramir? Just look what they did to him.<P>You see this is what us fans are aggrivated at. The unnecessary changes PJ made. PJ looks to me like a power monger now. He abused his power and broke his promise, and besides that, he broke our hearts. And he better watch out, especially for his body, because it seems like hearts and promises aren't the only things that will be broken. I'm not going to do anything like that but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened. So, we were just not expecting those changes. PJ promised us to stick a lot closer to the books and he could have. That's what we're mad at, and that's what we were hoping for. Not exactly like the books, but a lot closer. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And I found the suggestion that the films are purely for fans of the books downright insulting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, no one said they were made purely for the fans. We said they were, but not entirely. It was <I>mainly</I> for the fans. And it was also for the $$$ and to introduce people to LotR and Tolkien. I know you must be angry, but just calm down and think about it. Don't worry because you have nothing to worry about. And we're not suggesting that those people are of no importance. We're not trying to have our posts be insluting. Most of us I'm sure were angry like you when we put our posts up, sorry if it seemed insulting. <p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]
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Old 12-22-2002, 03:59 PM   #130
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Sory I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean litrally Sam should have been given the ring, I meant his character was so strong yet frodo's character was given no room to really manefest in this second film. I have no wish to change Tolkeins book structure, but was simply being sarcastic. and maybe using a bit of wit. Obviously you read it litrally which is not a problem being as the internet is not always to gauge peoples true meaning when they type. <BR> Yes I have read the books , they are great. <BR> Sorry for misleading you into thinking I had not
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Old 12-22-2002, 05:38 PM   #131
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I just came in on this topic and, since it has gone on for 4 pages, I have not read everyone's response. I love the movie! <BR> <BR> In terms of a story line I felt The Two Towers was edited better than the Fellowship. The first movie that came out of the Fellowship left so many important things out that were in the book and were put back in the extended version of the Fellowship movie I just bpought. For example, the elves giving of gifts to the hobbits and the others, the elves leaving Middle Earth, the development of the relationship between Gimli and Galadriel and Gimli and Legolas. These were important scenes and relationships in the book that did not appear in the first movie. <P> The special effects were fantastic in The Two Towers as well as the Fellowship but I believe The Two Towers were even better. The director, Peter Jackson, changed and lightened up the tenor of The Two Towers. In the book The Two Towers is about nothing but war and suffering. In the Two Towers movie there is hope, love, and friendship. <P> The scene between Faramir and the hobbits was *very* different from the one in the book, but none the worse for wear, I think. The process of the ring taking over Frodo is accelerated compared to the book, but Im sure Jackson knows where hes going with that. Theodén, the King of Rohan, was more fatalistic in the book. From I can recall Pip and Merry got to meet Gandalf earlier than what was portrayed in the movie. And there were other changes, but none too drastic. <P> The battle scenes were exquisite, of course; Shadowfax was magnificent. Grimtongue was just as slimy as in the book and Gollum was wonderful. Though it is obvious he is CGI generated, I still think the technique is getting better and better. The ents were priceless. All in all a very good No. 2. :-)<P> I thought it was interesting in each of the groups of Middle Earth and the fellowship: (1) Samwise and Frodo; (2) Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and the men of Middle Earth (Theodan, Faramir, Eomer and Eowyn); (3) Merry, Pippin and the Ents; and then (4) the elves, Galadriel and Elrond, at least one member of each group was the one who inspired the conscience, courage and hope of the others to fight for a better world because it was the right thing to do. Samwise was that for Frodo. Aragorn for the men, Legolas and Gimli, Merry and Pippin for the Ents, and Galadriel for Elrond and the rest of the elves. These characters inspired and pulled at the others to raise their swords in battle against the evil of Sauron, Saruman, the orcs and the urukhai. For as you said, the movie was inspiring giving hope to those who feel there is no hope and those ideals apply to mankind and the universe even today. <P> From what I remember of the book the people of Rohan did not get re-inforcements from the elves but I thought it was a great touch. In the movie Theodan complained about the fact that he had fought many a war and times had changed. Men did not have the allies they once had (referring to the elves and the people of Gondor). Legolas complains in elvish to Aragorn that the men of Rohan are farmers not trained to take on the forces of Saruman and Sauron and that surely all of them will die. Aragorn then says "Well then I will die with them!" telling Legolas with that statement that they have no choice but to fight. Legolas finally realizes that Aragorn is right. Then the elves appear with Haldir as their leader explaining to Theodan there was a time when elves and men fought together and he and the elves were there to do it again. The re-inforcements of the elves, trained fighters and warriors, brings hope when hope was flailing. <P> I am sure it was not lost on those of you who remember 9/11 that the title of the movie, The Two Towers, was of great significance. As an American it is interesting to wonder if The Two Towers had been released a year earlier if it would have brought hope to those of us who suffered when the thousands of people were killed in that attack. The hope that arose from the defeat of the dark forces of Middle Earth is something that we need in today's world. <P> Anyway...that is my $.02. <P> Vinyaampawen
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Old 12-22-2002, 07:01 PM   #132
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the book The Two Towers is about nothing but war and suffering. In the Two Towers movie there is hope, love, and friendship. <BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe you need to reread it because I found that there was a lot of hope, love, and friendship in the book. The book is not just about war and suffering. I really think that you missed a lot of things in the book if all you found was war and suffering. I'm not meaning to insult you or be offensive, I'm just trying to help you. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> there were other changes, but none too drastic <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I beg to differ. I think that there were a lot of unnecessary and uncalled for chnages. Faramir for example. You said 'but none the worse for wear' I think that changing Faramir was a big mistake. He is portrayed completely different in the book. A lot of other changes I felt were drastic but I will not go into them. Just read the posts before and you'll see. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Grimtongue <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Is that a new nickname for grima? Hmmm...clever, and interesting... <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I am sure it was not lost on those of you who remember 9/11 that the title of the movie, The Two Towers, was of great significance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not sure I undertand what you mean. Please explain. Do you mean that TTT does represent 9/11? Because if you do, I can argue for the rest of my life that it doesn't. And if you mean that there is a link, then you're wrong. They have nothing at all to do with each other. I'm not sure if that is what you're saying, but if you are, that's what I think about it. And sorry if it's not what you're saying.
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Old 12-22-2002, 07:04 PM   #133
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Ringfenwen, I am actually very glad you posted. You bring a unique point of view to this discussion. I, unfortunately am one of those "life-long fans" you spoke about. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The plot would have to be changed somewhat so that it could be shown visually, if pj had tried to incorporate every detail of the books each movie would probably have ended up about 9 hours long, it just isn't practical.<P>It is ridiculous to believe that a film can ever provide the same levels of characterization as a book, it's just not possible, this has been proven throughout the life of cinema. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I could not agree more and you wont find many others who will say that the movie should of been exactly like the book. I don’t want a none reader to suffer in a movie. Only two of my friends have read any of Tolkien’s work and I really want them to enjoy the movie. In none my posts have I ever said that they should be 9 hour epics that stick exactly close to the book. The FotR is a good example of the type of movie I was expecting and hoping for. I mean it had the same director, filmed at the same time and everything so my hopes for another FotR like rendition were not baseless. True "movies and books are totally separate anomaly’s, however two movie in the same series are not. The TTT should have sticked closer to the spirit in which FotR was made. In comparison to the book, which as of yet I realized you have to read, FotR was a good interpretation. There were parts that strayed from the book but all of these small points could be forgiven. I, and many others i'm sure feel betrayed that TTT was so different in nature then FotR. I expected something like FotR, instead I got a movie that much farther then the books then I had expected. Farther as in making up cities that actually ruins, and almost erasing characters. That’s pretty far from the books.<P>If I had not read TTT, then the movie might of been a lot better. In fact i'm sure I would have loved it. But knowing the truth when I watched the movie put it in a different light. Listen closely, <B>[/b][b]I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE TWO TOWERS IS A BAD MOVIE ON IT'S OWN. I AM SAYING THAT HIS NEW RENDITION BETRAYED THE ORIGNAL STORY AND CAUSES HAVOC FOR THOSE WHO HAVE READ IT AND FOR OTHERS WHEN THEY WILL READ IT.</B> That’s all i'm saying. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And I found the suggestion that the films are purely for fans of the books downright insulting. Two of my greatest friends have since watching the film read lotr, the silmarillion, learnt basic elvish, redecorated and designed their whole style of life to include the genius of JRRT (every piece of furniture or jewellery bought by them must look elvish ) <BR>If it hadn't been for the films they may have never discovered this whole world. Yet your whole attitude suggests that they are of no importance, since they have not been lifelong fans.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Excellent! One of the high hopes I had for the movie is that it would encourage some people to read the books who hadn't of consider it before. I am glad to see that my hopes came true. I am though a "<I>life-long fans</I>" as you put it, especially since my mother read it to me practically over my crib. But don't discount what I say on that fact alone (there are many you could use instead trust me . However, one thing is sure we have a differnt idea of the word fans. I do not consider my kind to be the only type of fans. Your friends are fans, your a are a fan. A fan being someone who liked the story and enjoy tolkiens world. However, when PJ first came out with FotR, the only fans were those who had read the book. There weren't any others. And for the most part we fans gave him kudos for FotR. TTT is not quite the same. It is much different from the FotR the movie and very different from TTT the book. He has so to speak not targeted fans but more of the movie going masses, not all of which are fascinated by Tolkien's world. Many don't even really care for the plot. By doing he so he watered down the movie and "<I>betrayed</I>" our expectations. <P>Now I can't dispute many peoples love for this new TTT. Their views on the movie are totally their own and I cannot validate or invalidate them. However, I am simply debating the fact that this new movie is not TTT, but PJ's rendition of a movie much like TTT (with similar settings, names, and look), but differing severely in both characters and plot line. There are parts were PJ's movie does turn into TTT, but within a few minutes it mutates again. I really hate to say this, but you do speak from a position of little experience having not read the book and especially not seen the movie yet. Maybe by the time you read this you'll have seen it though. I'm also mostly arguing that the movies divergence from the book contributed to it's downfall. But, since you haven't read the book you shouldn't worry about thats. But please, please don't let my views insult you. I don't mean anything of the kind. I just want to debate TTT and its wrongs (in my eyes) and why it isn't near as authentic as FotR.<P>P.S. Man what I had to go through to put his post up first an electircal faliure then I couldn't contact my Internet provider. If I had put it up when I wrote it it would have been up two posts ago.<p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Túroch ]
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Old 12-22-2002, 07:20 PM   #134
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I agree that TTT the movie was not as true to the original Tolkien as much as FotR was. However, I do understand why Jackson did many of the things that he did, which was in order to move the story along. I was particularly disappointed with how the ents were portrayed. Their culture was not very well shown, and things were rushed with their storyline. Of course, this is something that the ents themselves would never dream of doing, so it goes against their entire nature (no pun intended). The movie was too centered around Helm's deep. Just because the filming of the battle was very lengthy and arduous, it does not mean that it has to be the focus of the film. Frodo did not get enough attention at all. He is the ring-bearer, and the burden of carrying the ring is not shown accurately. Frodo and Sam actually reach Mordor, and there is not enough shown to how the ring has been effecting Frodo. Many (if not all) of the characters who were hardly shown were not very true to the book. This was extremely disappointing!!<P>Aragorn's character was done wonderfully. Viewers get a better sense of him and how he is sooooo driven to fight the dark forces. I also liked how Legolas and Gimli's growing friendship was shown. In addition, Gollum and his split personality were very well portrayed.<P>I would like to know how non-LotR fans liked TTT. My friend, who came with me to see it, thought that it was boring. She only enjoyed the scenes with Legolas in them. Her overall impression was that it was boring. The four other people that came with me to see the film were very curious as to what will happen at the end and were begging me to tell them who the "she" was to whom Gollum is taking Frodo and Sam. So I think that it left everyone out on a cliff. But it is an excellent movie, as far as movies go. <P>-Luinalatawen
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Old 12-22-2002, 07:34 PM   #135
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Good Day MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie and well met! In your post you said something about not wanting to insult me but wanting to help me. Thank you for your help. <P> This is a discussion where we are talking about our "overall impressions" of The Two Two Towers. As a discussion there are bound to be differences of opinion. My post was a different opinion than yours but not invalid because of that. Please refrain from the language that you are trying to help me. I do not need your help. Instead just view my post as a different opinion in this over all discussion. That is all!<P> <BR>
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Old 12-22-2002, 07:50 PM   #136
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alas, I'm siding with the more negative approach. The wolves looked like Hyenas. You can see the distinct glitter squares in the caves at Helms deep. Aragorn falling off a cliff? What kind of people would bring their women and children to war with them? I'm sorry, but when PJ makes a mistake like the last one, it makes me question his integrity. Good quality? I didn't see any.
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Old 12-22-2002, 07:59 PM   #137
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1420!

I do recognize that your post was your own opinion. I sometimes put advice or help up there for grabs. Whoever wants it can take it. If you don't want it, you don't have to take it. You can only lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. That's fine if you don't need or want my help.<P>Some points you have I'm just disagreeing with. Yes this is about overall impressions, but it is also a discussion. So we all have the right to disagree someone and to say why. We're just not allowed to attack the other person's opinion.<P>I still would like to know what you meant by <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I am sure it was not lost on those of you who remember 9/11 that the title of the movie, The Two Towers, was of great significance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Could you please explain? I'm just curious.<P>Thanks.<P>Oh yeah, I have to say that that was the nicest greeting I've got from anyone that I disagreed with. Thanks again and good day to you too (well actually it's night in SF, I don't know about Rivendell).
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Old 12-22-2002, 08:03 PM   #138
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Sorry for double posting. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> The wolves looked like Hyenas <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's exactly what I said when we talked about the TTT special on WB. The wargs do look like huge hyenas. They have flat faces instead of long narrow snouts. But they still were pretty scary.
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Old 12-22-2002, 08:10 PM   #139
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My overall impression after only one veiwing,was that the pace was too fast. I'll probably adjust after seeing TTT several more times. I was prepared by reading and seeing many spoilers, I had a pretty good idea of Peter Jackson's movie vision of TTT. I enjoyed it immensely. <P>Even though I laughed at the part on the wall when you could only see the tip of Gimli's helmet, I thought all the Gimli jokes were disrespectful. I liked the movie Eowyn better than the book Eowyn, so this was a plus. I look forward to her "battle scene" in RoTK. The parts with Frodo and Sam pleased me also. I really liked Gollum's split personality, and felt more pity for him than I ever had before. Frodo's eyes are finally beginning to get to me! <P>I love Vigo Mortensen as Aragorn, and I really liked "Theoden King" also. My personal preference is for the humans of Middle Earth, and this movie gave me lots to like. The ents were very well done, but it was too rushed. I guess Ents will always seemed rushed! <P>I hate the theater, and look forward to savoring this film slowly, with a drink, by the fire. The opening scene with Gandalf and the balrog was perfect! I loved the voices coming from the mountain, and suddenly going "swoosh" into the high intensity scene on the bridge. <P>The bit with frodo holding the ring out to the nazgul bewilders me, but I'll hold judgement till I see "The Extended Edition" of The Two Towers, and The Return of the King. I am so satisfied, now that the wait is over. I have no problem veiwing the movies as seperate and different from the books. It two treats about the same wonderful place, for me! <p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]
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Old 12-22-2002, 08:31 PM   #140
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Another one of the scenes that got to me, was where Frodo was "being tempted"(for lack of a good word) and in that particular close up, he looked like he was trying to be seductive, and thinking something like "oh baby, you know you want me! I am so fine" very funny. I agree, the jokes about Gimli are in poor taste.
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Old 12-22-2002, 09:02 PM   #141
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"poor taste"? I thought that those were good. Sure, it dumbed down his heroism a bit, but if you look, it just an over emphasis of gimli's gregarious character.
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Old 12-22-2002, 09:15 PM   #142
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I think they mean the "short jokes" aimed at him (of which there were quite a few).
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Old 12-22-2002, 09:21 PM   #143
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Too bad there are not more dwarves in these movies. Is it Gimli, or dwarves in general? Yes, it was one joke too many for me. I like to think of Gimli on the bridge with Aragorn, (I'll just ignore the tossing part)taking on all those orcs while they strengthen the gate. Go Gimli! <p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: Liriodendron ]
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Old 12-22-2002, 11:44 PM   #144
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First and foremost, greetings to all. <P>I knew this place would be hopping after 12/18, but wow! I love debate, though. Okay, now for my little speech; <P>There is no way I'm going to be able to put all of my thoughts about TTT into this post, but I'll do my best to be clear and not bore you all. <P>My overall view of TTT: a very good movie, yet disturbing in the areas that were changed. <BR> I had hardly heard of LotR before I saw FotR; and after I did, I went immediately to read the books and am now completely hooked. So already having read TTT, I have very mixed emotions about the whole thing. <P>I loved the portrayal of Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Eowyn, Eomer, Grima Wormtongue, Gandalf, Frodo, Samwise, Merry, Pippin, Treebeard, and Gollum(!!).<BR> I'm going to talk about Gollum right now before I forget. I thought he was awesome!! I felt sorry for him in the books anyway, but the split-personality was so well done & I even went to the extreme of thinking he was cute when he was Smeagol. And the CG! Wow! I had completely accepted him as a real character within the first five minutes without even knowing it! Extremely well done! <P> Of Frodo and Sam: I did note that Frodo's corruption was a little bit rushed, but I'm sure PJ has his reasons (as someone else here said before). I loved the dialogue between him and Samwise. "It's your Sam! Don't you recognize your Sam?" I loved it! And I liked how Frodo stuck up for Gollum. I think we sometimes lose track of the thought that Frodo is really really scared right then. He's looking at Gollum and thinking "That will be me if I don't conquer this soon." Scary thought. I DID NOT like how they went down into Osgiliath. Bad. But again, those who didn't read the books, wouldn't have caught it. My brother hasn't read the books in years, so he absolutely loves the movies and can't wait to read the books AFTER RotK comes out. Each to his own. I couldn't have waited. Sorry, off-track.<BR> <BR> I was <B>extreeeeeeeeemly</B> upset about the way Faramir was presented. Note: I didn't say 'corrupted' or anything of the like, because I believe his real nature will be revealed and righted in RotK. I also wasn't thrilled with King Theoden. He wasn't bad at all, but I think his pessimistic tendencies were overdone. He was a very powerful character in the books and I just miss that. But that's getting kind of picky. <BR> Also, I was confused about the Elves coming to help at Helm's Deep, but it wasn't absolutely horrible. As a fan who has read the books before seeing the movie; I can deal with it. <BR> Aragorn falling off a cliff? An extended scene with Arwen? Not needed. I do not believe it forwarded the story except for developing Arwen and Aragorn and their relationship more. Again, not very necessary. But it did give room for some good dialogue and character developement for Legolas, Gimli & their relationship w/Aragorn. <BR> <BR>The Ents! I loved them! I thought Treebeard was great (can anyone confirm or deny the rumour of John Rhys Davies playing his voice?) and I really missed Quickebeam. <P> I left the theatre feeling somewhat confused about the way I felt. I was very excited because it was a good movie, but I was also saddened by the things the 'book-readers' were able to notice. It was hard because I had waited so long for it's release with certain ideas and expectations in mind as to what the movie would be like. But how could one not? <I>None of us</I> would make the movie the same. We all have different ideas and feelings about it all. But the task was taken upon by PJ. I, for one, would have loved to have participated in the movie (who wouldn't?), but I have to honestly question myself as to if I think I could have done a good job with it. I don't know. But PJ invested his heart, soul, and several years of his life into these movies. I believe he had/has the best interests at heart and did/is doing the best job he can. He has a deep love for Tolkien and his work. He didn't (I believe) and isn't going to trash it or disrespect it. Granted, we are disappointed in many or few portions of the movie, but it was not that incredibly far off from the books. As has been said in this thread before: it is not possible to put LotR directly from novel to movie without having to change something(s). If PJ had done that we all would have been on our butts with eyes glued to a TV screen for about a week straight. (which I can't say I would have minded INCREDIBLY ) I would have changed several things, yes, but I trust PJ and believe that he is doing his best and I think maybe we could think about giving the guy a little slack. <BR> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Please be patient with those of us in grief over our disappointment. If we can not express our selves to fellow LOTR nuts who can we vent too? Our goldfish? <BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hear hear! By all means vent! I completely understand the grief. This is a place for us to rant and rage about our frustrations with the movies. I'm glad for everyone else's sake I wasn't able to get on this forum after the whole Faramir incident. It could have gotten nasty. I was...how you say...<I>frustrated</I> <P>My plan is to go watch the movie again (and again and again) to untangle my emotions over it. And now I must begin the seemingly eternal wait for RotK. 360 days...360 days...<P>God bless! and happy holidays!<P>*.·´¨¨)) -:¦:-<BR> ¸.·´ .·´¨¨))<BR> ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ Laialthriel -:¦:-<BR>-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
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Old 12-23-2002, 01:05 AM   #145
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All I have to say is I loved the Two Towers. I had already read all about the changes on the internet, so I was prepared for them. That helped. It is very different from the book, but if you just look at it as a movie, (which I know a lot of people will not want to do)it was very exciting, adventure filled, and just overall great! The part with Faramir was very different, but it did not bother me as much as I thought it would.
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Old 12-23-2002, 06:38 AM   #146
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Now, after finishing up last minute Xmas presents, I finally have time for my reviews... <P>To be honest, I was a bit dissapointed. I mean, WHERE WAS THE BOOK?????????? The opening was pretty cool, but then it was like... can we get started??? All those flashbacks and added scenes were really confusing ESPECIALLY if you´ve read the book. I sat in the thearter going: "But what about.... " "And where´s ...." "But this should be different!" The last time that happenend to me was during Princess Diaries, and <I>that</I>was a bad movie. <BR>Here my list of the good, the bad and the ugly:<P><BR><B>The good</B><BR>The two kids from Rohan. That was nice.<P>The openíng, with the balrog.<P>Gollum. Is just me, or does he have a lot in common with dobby????<P>Gimli. Hahahahaha. The silly dwarf. Oh brother...<P>Shadowfax. Very beautiful horse.<P>Arwen&Elrond. In spite of myself, I started crying. <P>Aragorn. Hmmmmm... hot, as usual. Sorry.<P><BR><B>The bad</B><BR>Faramir. OH MY GOD, they turned him into a second Boromir. I mean the point is totally different. THAT was horrible.<P>Gandalf the exorcist. That was very cliché. And funny.<P>Theoden crying about his Son. I died laughing. That was even more cliché. <BR>AAHHH!!! <P>Eowyn. I was really, really anxious to see her, but maybe she was the greatest dissapiontment. It´s not her fault she looked like a FROG, but what were they thinking, casting her? The acting, I´m sorry, was awfull. <P>Frodo. Hihihi. Poor, pitifull hobbit. <P><BR><B>The ugly</B><BR>THE ENTS. OH MY GOSH, What the F$/K???. I mean ,hello, these are Robots were talking about, that was BAD!!! And I´m only saying, in the book, there´s no need to show them what the Uruks do. That was horrible.<P>I know that was a lot of complaining, but as I said, I was disappointed. And, to be honest, HP2 was a bit better. Don´t sue me for this one, it´just my impression.<p>[ December 23, 2002: Message edited by: Manardariel ]
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Old 12-23-2002, 08:23 AM   #147
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Tell me, if there really were not a lot of fans out there, do you think PJ woiuld be allowed 850 million$ to make the movie. PJ got so much funding because the people/companies who gave the funding knew that already there are so many fans out there and allowing PJ to go all out in making this movie is no problem because at least half the fans will like/love it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>People/companies? Try New Line. PJ didn’t work on charity, and his movie wasn’t a public service to a bunch of people who can’t do anything better with their time but lament the fact that nobody gave them $850 mil to make a movie that, of course, only they could make right.<P>You all need to ask yourselves: would you be this critical if you didn’t hang out on this forum?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I left the theatre feeling somewhat confused about the way I felt. I was very excited because it was a good movie, but I was also saddened by the things the 'book-readers' were able to notice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Admit it, you were sad because you saw a bunch of stuff that people on this forum were going spend hours blasting apart at their keyboards.<P>Alright, that was harsh enough. I think everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, and I think its totally justified to dislike the movie based on its unfaithfulness to the books. There were parts that disturbed me, especially the whole Faramir bit about taking Frodo, Sam and Gollum to Osgiliath. I didn’t like the ents being replaced by Éomer at Helm’s Deep, or that bit about Saruman possessing Theoden. On the other hand, there were additions that I liked (the warg-rider battle, the exchange between Elrond and Arwen), and there were omissions that I completely understood. Yes, there were mistakes, some justifiable some not. There are certain things that only people on this forum would know or even care about knowing, and there were a couple that PJ probably should have known if he was going to make a movie about Tolkien’s world. However, I didn’t let any of these things get in the way of me enjoying the movie.<P>When I watched Braveheart I knew that most of what was in the movie was completely fictional. That didn’t stop me from liking that movie. I guess you people just aren’t used to this kind of thing. My primary area of study, research and interest is Medieval Studies (philosophy and theology). There are practically no modern writers who give the Middle Ages anything more than a list of false additions, twisting omissions or blatant mistakes. I guess my attitude is tempered with having to constantly deal with agenda driven interpretations.<P>In closing, if you can’t laugh at Gimli, who can you laugh at? Were you upset that dwarven women were being discriminated against on account of their beards?
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Old 12-23-2002, 08:26 AM   #148
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Someone asked what I meant about the message that could be taken from the movie, The Two Towers movie, as it applied to 9/11. I certainly did not mean they were connected...of course the movie, The Two Towers, and 9/11 are totally separate incidents. However, for me the movie, The Two Towers, was a movie about hope and fighting the forces of evil even when evil (in the movie the forces of Saruman and Sauron) outnumber you and it appears hopeless. 9/11 was a incident of evil, horror, disbelief, sorrow and mourning for many people in this world today. So to the extent that The Two Towers has a message of hope in the face of horror, disbelief, sorrow and mourning, it tells us that we must continue our fight against evil even in those moments when all seems lost.
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Old 12-23-2002, 11:58 AM   #149
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I have just seen TTT and I think I may be in shock. So please do not kill me for what I am going to say.<P>Ok, I will forget the whole Arwen scenes, Aragorn half dying, Gimli turned into a clown, Faramir into an evil git (sorry!), Frodo into a total wimp, Eomer being exiled, Grima planning Helm's Deep's battle with Saruman, the useless entmoot, Theoden being a hopeless pessimistic (who wouldn't with their army replaced by women, old people and kids?), Merry and Pippin meeting Gandalf in Fangorn, and so on... <BR>but there are a couple of things that I cannot let pass:<BR>ELVES AT HELM'S DEEP? Whatever did Haldir do to PJ to be sent fighting (and dying) to Helm's Deep when he was minding his own business in Lothlorien?<BR>And the hobbits in Osgiliath? Where did that come from?<P>Understand me, I'm not just having fun picking out all the details that are not exactly from the book. I read the books before going to see the first movie, and when I went, I was skeptical because usually I hate movies made from books I read... and I loved FotR!!!! Of course, I saw all the changes PJ made in this movie, and I understood every single one of them (except maybe the need to have Aragorn letting Frodo go at the end...) and I have spent a whole year saying isn't it great to finally have found someone who respects the spirit of the original book. But TTT? Maybe the problem comes from the fact that, having enjoyed FotR so much, I was expecting another great movie. But wasn't I entitled to?<P>I am speaking only a couple of hours after seeing the movie, so my thoughts are still reeling. I'll go and see it again (forewarned this time), and try to see things more objectively but honestly I don't think my opinion will change that much...<P>Hope I haven't offended anyone with my opinions. Maybe I am a purist, but put it this way: when people who have seen TTT will want to read the books, won't they be disappointed too, because it won't be what they expect? Wouldn't it have been easier to stick a little closer to the original story?<BR>That was just my two cents...<P>Oh, just one last question: If Eowyn isn't in Dunharrow, how is the whole plot of the Path of The Dead going to be dealt with?
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Old 12-23-2002, 04:28 PM   #150
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Laialthriel, just wanted to let you know that yes, John Rhys-Davies DID do the voice for Treebeard.
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Old 12-23-2002, 04:57 PM   #151
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I wonder if P.J. was under pressure from the merchandising section of new line, hence the Warg riders. I actually questioned my own memory of the book when I left the cinema and had to refer back. <BR>Overall a decent film but the changes to plot were downright inexcusable
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Old 12-23-2002, 05:11 PM   #152
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you know, i've noticed that PJ did a much better job on portraying the villians, bad guys, etc. (especially the Ringwraiths!)than he did on the heros.<BR>Personally, i think that he has a dark mind. after all, anyone that makes horror films is bound to be better at portraying evil. I dunnno, just something that i noticed. on thinking back over both FOTR and TTT.
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Old 12-23-2002, 07:10 PM   #153
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1420!

Bill Ferny: I do not want to create a huge argument between us so please don't take offense. I think maybe you misunderstand me. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> People/companies? Try New Line. PJ didn’t work on charity, and his movie wasn’t a public service to a bunch of people who can’t do anything better with their time but lament the fact that nobody gave them $850 mil to make a movie that, of course, only they could make right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When I said, "people/companies" I said that because I wasn't sure if PJ got all of his funding from New Line. I'm sure that there were other people or companies that contributed to the funding, especially before New line. But my point is that without the fans, this would never have happened. If there weren't a lot of fans out there, New Line would not have given them that much funding because they couldn't be sure if anybody would like it or not. But with us fans out there, they knew that there were people who did like it and they knew they weren't just blowing 850 mil$ away.<P>And I never said or hinted that PJ was working on charity. I know, he's not. And we are not a bunch of people who can't do anything better with their time but lament. And we are not lamenting over the fact that no one gave us 850 mil$ to make a movie. Tell me, did we ever say we were sad, or did we ever ask? No. I really am not trying to be offensive so once again please don't take it that way. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> You all need to ask yourselves: would you be this critical if you didn’t hang out on this forum? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I would actually. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Admit it, you were sad because you saw a bunch of stuff that people on this forum were going spend hours blasting apart at their keyboards. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope that you're only talking to Laialthriel because I (and many others) were not sad because of this. maybe you should have said "Some of you" instead of "All of you" because it seems that you were driving at what Laialthriel said, when that's only Laialthriel's opinion and a lot of us feel differently. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I didn’t let any of these things get in the way of me enjoying the movie. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not saying that your telling us not to let the changes get in the way of enjoying the movie, but it seems that you are implying it. I didn't let it get in the way. I liked the movies, but I really don't talk about the good stuff, just the bad stuff. Because it's only the bad stuff that we hate, so we tend to talk about it.<P>Vinyaampawen: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I certainly did not mean they were connected <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you. I hate it when people it is connected. And I'm glad someone sees it as an allegory instead of saying it is. Good post and thanks for answering my question. Sorry if seemed offensive.<P>And once again Bill Ferny ,sorry if I seemed offensive, I do not mean to.
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Old 12-23-2002, 09:20 PM   #154
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At the time The Fellowship of the Ring was release there were many interviews of the director, Peter Jackson. He said in one of the interviews he did not pay attention to the fans of Tolkein and Lord of the Rings because, if he did, he would never be able to complete the movie because they all disagreed. The way this discussion has gone it may prove that Jackson was correct on that one.<P> New Line took a chance on Peter Jackson to make these movies knowing he was a Tolkein fan himself. The budget for this movie was huge and it paid off because New Zealand was put on the map in the movie industry as a result of these films.<P> You may not want hear this but, according to Entertainment Weekly "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" racked up $61.5 million over the weekend, beating not only its box office competitors, but its own<BR>predecessor as well. "The Two Towers," which opened Wednesday, made a total of $101.5 over the week, while last year's "The Fellowship of the Ring" made $75<BR>million in its first week (and $47.2 million over its first weekend).
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Old 12-23-2002, 10:24 PM   #155
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As a quick sidenote: Peter Jackson did not get $850 million to make the movies. It was more like $270 million.
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Old 12-24-2002, 12:01 AM   #156
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1420!

Really? I could have sworn I heard it was 850 mil$, but oh well, 270, 850 still a lot of money...Now if you'll excuse me, my ears need to pay a visit to Mr. and Mrs. Q-tip.
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Old 12-24-2002, 01:01 AM   #157
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Grant me two things here.<BR>1) I'm just jumping in here (cowabunga!!)<BR>2) I didn't bother to read all the other posts (you lazy son of a...)<P>Anyway, what struck me the most about this movie was that PJ seemed to have been trying to strike a medium, where people who hadn't read the books could still understand the movie, and people who had wouldn't go off the edge. He seems to have failed on both counts, though. I went to see it with my girlfriend, who hasn't read the books, and she came out confused; <BR>1) why are the Elves leaving Middle Earth? <BR>2) Why is Gollum/Smeagol a murderer? <BR>3) Where did Sam and Frodo get Elvish rope from? (hadn't seen the extended version, either.)<BR>4) Why, if Frodo is being tempted by the ring, and tries to hurt Sam when he thinks he's trying to take it, is he about to give it away? To a Nazgul?<BR>5) Why'd the pudgy elf get sent to Helm's Deep by Elrond, when he lives in Lorien?<BR>6) Just how big <I>is</I> fangorn forest?<BR>7) Even with Eomer and Gandalf, that brings the total to 2,300 (and 4) Men and Elves against 10,000 orcs. Still not great odds.<BR>8) Where did Eomer's other 1,985 riders come from?<BR>9) Aragorn; "send for help." Theoden; "none will come." Ok, but you might as well try...<BR>10) I thought Wargs were wolves, not Hyenas?<P>And I came out frustrated; <BR>1)Ok, even if Faramir <I>does</I> get tempted by the ring, even Boromir held out longer than that. <BR>2)Why, in the name of all that is holy, do they add 20 minutes of utterly useless Osgiliath, and then end the movie with more than a hundred pages of the book left? <BR>3)Why isn't Eomer in this movie?<BR>4)Where is the Rohirrim army?<BR>5)Why isn't Gandalf in this movie?<BR>6)Did Pip and Merry break their legs, that they have to be carried around all the time?<BR>7)Just how big <I>is</I> fangorn forest?<BR>8)Why isn't Faramir in this movie, and who the <B>HELL</B> is that imposter?!?!<BR>9)OK. The Dwarf is short. We get it.<BR>10)What's the pudgy elf doing in Helm's Deep?<P>And for some reason, I'd always pictured the Nazgul as riding big bat-like things. Not Dragon-y creatures.<P>There were good things, though;<BR>1)Wormtongue was fantastic. I especially enjoyed the extra scene between him and Eowyn. IMO, the only thing that was added that actually made it <I>better</I> instead of detracting.<BR>2)Eowyn was absolutely gorgeous, both physically and in portrayal. Kudos to Miranda Otto.<BR>3)Smeagol/Gollum was better than I could possibly have imagined him to be. After Jar Jar Binks, and, to a lesser extent, the HP CG creatures, I went into the movie fearing him the most, and it ended up being one of the best parts. For some reason, I'd always thought of him as being green, though... Don't know why. He <B>did</B> remind me of Dobby. It's those big eyes.<BR>4)Gandalf (when he was there) was amazing.<BR>5)Sam was impressive. When Faramir shot that man off of the Mumak, and he crashed down by Sam, I could see in his expression everything that Tolkien writes about (Sam wondered if he was really a bad man, or what lies he had been told...etc) and his ending monologue was something I'd been looking forward to, and it didn't disappoint.<BR>6)Frodo's interaction with Gollum was nice. Not particularly canon, but nice. I liked that Frodo had to believe that Gollum could be saved. Very well put.<BR>7)The battle for Helm's Deep was cool. Not spectacular, not realistic; cool. Legolas shield-surfing; cool. The counting game; cool. The Olympic torch procession; cool.<BR>8)The scenery was, of course, simply awesome. <BR>9)As someone put it in another thread; "Hi Ho, Silverfax!" and the charge of the Light Brigade (the Rohirrim) was visually neat, even if it made absolutely no sense from a tactical point of view.<BR>10)Gandalf's fight with the Balrog, his death and subsequent resurrection, and his reintroduction to the company was all very well done.<P>But anyway, my point is that, IMO, he tried to strike a happy medium, and missed. All in all, an enjoyable view, though not what I'd hoped for.
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Old 12-24-2002, 04:47 PM   #158
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You hit the nail on the head Garen LiLorian, and welcome to the downs. I agree most with the question why Eomer isn't in the movie but, i'm biased cause he's my favortie character. I only hope PJ sticks closer in the 3rd movie.
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Old 12-25-2002, 11:01 PM   #159
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And a hearty AMEN! to that, Turoch!<BR>(Merry Christmas, everybody!)
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Old 12-25-2002, 11:23 PM   #160
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Ah but Hawkeye, you missed Christmas by one minute...12:01, see?
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