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Old 10-31-2003, 10:04 AM   #1
rudeboy
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Sting First Darkness?

In Lord of the Rings, Gandalf says that Sauron needs only the one ring to cover all the lands in a second darkness! When was the first darkness? Was it the dark years? I dont really undertstand because I thought Sauron was defeated before he conqured all the lands! When were the dark years and how long did they last?
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Old 10-31-2003, 11:19 AM   #2
Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1
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Sting

That's a good question. I've never been too sure myself.
*Goes and looks up Robert Foster's Guide*
It says here:
Quote:
Dark Years The years of Sauron's great and almost undisputed domination of Middle-earth, during which many peoples were enslaved or corrupted. The Dark Years lasted from c. SA 1000, when Sauron settled in Mordor, to 3441, when he was overthrown by the Last Alliance. During this period Sauron built the Barad Dűr, forged the Rings of Power, and won the War of the Elves and Sauron.
Hope that helps somewhat. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
If anyone wants to dispute this, feel free.
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Old 11-02-2003, 01:45 PM   #3
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Sting

Sounds pretty accurate to me so I have no reason to argue. By the way, what is the name of that book you got the quote from? Robert Fosters guide to what?
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Old 11-02-2003, 03:31 PM   #4
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The full title is "Robert Foster's Guide to Middle-earth" (fairly self-explanatory). You can probably find it at www.amazon.com or in most bookstores. If your local bookstore doens't have it in stock, then most likely they will order it for you, and call you when it comes in.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
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Old 11-02-2003, 05:03 PM   #5
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Sting

Yep, when Sauron forged the Ring in 1600 (Second Age) and the Elves saw his true colours and so denied him their rings, he waged a War on them which menat not only did he have his already-"owned" territories of much of the Osuth and East, but he destroyed Eriador, including Hollin, schorched the feritle lands south of Mirkwood so badly that they were forever after known as the Brown Lands, probably hunted and killed the Ent Wives, and caused Numenor to be destroyed. Pretty Dark. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]
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Old 11-02-2003, 05:11 PM   #6
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Sting

He didn't cause Numenor to be destroyed right then. That was much later, after Ar-Pharazon came to the throne. But he did extend his "feelers" of Darkness over Numenor, so that its Kings became discontented with the Elvish influences coming from Aman.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.
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Old 11-02-2003, 05:26 PM   #7
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Sting

Ah, but he did and did not. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Eru drowned Numenor, because of the idea Sauron had put in the King's already evil mind; becuase of the Morgoth-worshippijg society he'd truned Numenor into.

So while he didn't press the Smite button, he (and indeed the Numenorena's own pride) caused the Downfall.
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Old 11-03-2003, 06:03 AM   #8
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But by the "first darkness" was gandalf not refering to the time when Melkor broke the long seige that the elves had cast upon him in the first age and covered all the lands in of middle earth in "darkness"...
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Old 11-03-2003, 08:01 AM   #9
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Sting

That's an earleir Darkness, but I think he's reffering specifically to Saruon's personal Darkness.
Especially because Morgoth had several periods of Darkenss before being defeated. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 11-03-2003, 09:14 AM   #10
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but morgoth only covered the peoples of midle earth in darkness once!!! The time before the vala descovered the first born doesnt count!!!
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Old 11-03-2003, 03:46 PM   #11
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[img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
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Old 01-06-2008, 12:51 PM   #12
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I've always thought that line meant that in the beginning of the world it was dark.

To quote The Never Ending Story. "In the beginning, it is always dark."

Before Arda (Elbereth) made the stars, there was no light to speak of.

I vote that Morgoth and then Sauron liked that time before there was light, and wished to repeat it.
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Old 01-10-2008, 12:51 PM   #13
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But Sauron could not have extinguished the stars, which Gandalf knew.
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Last edited by Eomer of the Rohirrim; 01-10-2008 at 12:52 PM. Reason: The counsel of the Wargs
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