WW: XCVIII ~ Game Thread ~ Death at the Foot of Taniquetil

[Kath]

In the days of peace in Valinor a dark evil has grown among Elves and Valar alike. Assumed to be the result of an evil work of Melkor, previously non-violent Elves have turned upon each other in vicious ways. Many of the inhabitants of the land have fled to the relative safety of the mountain home of Manwe. However, at the foot of the mountain, danger lurks in one small village ...

... Rune and Greenie peered out of their homes, glancing suspiciously at each other as they slowly made their way to the fountain that marked the centre of the tiny village that had sprung up over the last few days. Shasta had said the Valar were going to send someone to inform the villagers about the worrying deaths that had marked their departure from their previous homes. They met him hurrying along the road with Boro and all four travellers made sure they kept a safe distance apart. They had all seen the bodies, no culprits had been caught - trust had to be earned now.

sally called out as they arrived. "These are the last ones!" She was speaking to a tall Elf stood at the side of the falling water. Pom and Nerwen moved aside as the final four slid into the small circle that had gathered around the Elf.

"I am Kath." She stated simply. "I have come to tell you what we know of the danger surrounding the village. There are three monsters among you. They are separate and do not know each other ... yet. We have found in other villages that these creatures are drawn to each other and as they meet their power becomes greater and more die."

"But is there no protection?" Cried Coppermirror in horror. skip spence and MCR murmured in agreement.

"In a village this small there is not." Replied Kath. "It is up to you and you alone to stop these creatures. If you can agree amongst yourselves to put one villager to the gallows that villager will be granted death if found to be one of these evil creatures. If that villager is an innocent their soul will be kept safe until such time as the danger is passed. Work well together to save yourselves. Return to your homes and lock your doors. Your task will begin in the morning.""

With that, ignoring any further questions, the Elf stepped into the fountain and vanished amid the water.

The villagers turned to each other, each face holding more suspicion than the last.

Villagers:
Rune
Greenie
Shasta
sally
Boro
Pom
Nerwen
Coppermirror
skip spence
MCR

[Kath]

The Night had been full of terrors. As the three dark creatures that lived amidst the frightened villagers shed their daily guise and revealed themselves in their own homes their howls could be heard through the tightly shut doors and windows. The howls held a note of question - each creature attempting to find the other evil-doers in the village.

Yet one voice was different. Feanor, mighty among Elves, had sent a gift in secret to the village. One was able to search for the side of good, seeking out the evil.

This voice though was all but drowned out by the delight and malice in the three voices. They had found prey.

~ ~ ~

In the morning the villagers awoke, surprised and relieved to still be alive. In fear but with a kind of dreadful fascination they put their heads round doors - expecting to see some grisly sight before them. They were not disappointed.

"Kath!" Screamed a voice from the crowd.

The villagers crowded around the mangled corpse that lay in the once beautiful fountain, the water now a deep red. It was indeed Kath, their only link to help from outside the village, mauled and murdered

"We are lost." A deep voice intoned sadly.

"No! Remember her words!" Came a hopeful cry. "We can still save ourselves. Let us discuss now what we know of each of us and hope that we can discover evil before it takes us all."

Day 1 has begun. Villagers please begin discussing your fate.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod was among the crowd and kind of baffled why he was not mentioned in the account as among the villagers... "maybe it's my usual quietness..." he thought while turning away in disgust from Kath's mauled body with the others.

Well, anyway, if the wolves didn't know who the others were, then we might have an advantage if we acted wolvishly just to derail them from their real target of finding out their mates.

Then again it would be that the most vocal players might be more the targets than they normally are (which isn't a low probability either) as it goes with the wolves' "popular vote" unassisted by strategical considerations... which gamewise could be bad.

Then again, if we all act like wolves toDay it makes the voting quite random - which it in some ways is on D1's most of the time - but well, forcing a policy on D1 rarely works either...

So in the end... hmph. Let's take that as a starter? Or any other ideas?

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

MCR stared at the mauled body in the water. She glanced about, staring at each of the villagers in turn. Working together to find the wolves seemed folly; it would only lead to more death when the wolves were aware of the individual villagers' plans. She had been planning to save herself at any cost, and seeing the mangled body in the fountain solidified her conviction.

"Do as you all will," she announced. "Save yourselves, and your families if you must. Trust no one whom you do not know better than your brother. Loose lips shall be the death of us all. We are alone. There is nobody from outside to help us through the wilderness, so those who plan to flee shall have no guide. I shed no tears over Kath, for though she was a brave woman, I have no compassion to spare."

Her skirts swished about her as she walked away, stepping around Nogrod, and her departing form was followed by the amazed gazes of the others.
___________________

Please, if I seem to be missing the point or something, don't be afraid to help me out. I've never done something like this on this site, and I want to enjoy it without ruining it for others. Thanks!

[Coppermirror]

Coppermirror stood thinking near the village centre for some time, eyes averted from the grisly sight in the fountain. At least among the crowd, it was possible to feel a semblance of safety, however shaky. "Alas, poor Kath. Her words were true. There is no protection for us, but for the plan she brought."

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well, anyway, if the wolves didn't know who the others were, then we might have an advantage if we acted wolvishly just to derail them from their real target of finding out their mates.

I wonder about how good that idea is...

Advantages:
- We could prevent the wolves from having any real data to go on. Usually, an information blocking strategy like this would only hurt the village, but the wolves need information too.
- As long as the wolves don't have sound information to go on, they might kill a wolf in the Night.

Disadvantages:
- There'd be little basis for today's lynching target. Albeit it's rare to have solid info on Day 1 anyway.
- The rest of us will also lack information going into Day 2. On the other hand, unless the wolves found each other last Night, there would be little info we could guess from their Day 1 behaviour anyway.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Then again it would be that the most vocal players might be more the targets than they normally are (which isn't a low probability either) as it goes with the wolves' "popular vote" unassisted by strategical considerations... which gamewise could be bad.

Sorry Nog, I didn't understand this paragraph. Why is it that the most vocal players would be more of a target using the "everyone acts wolvish" strategy?

Originally Posted by MCRmyGirl4eva

Working together to find the wolves seemed folly; it would only lead to more death when the wolves were aware of the individual villagers' plans. She had been planning to save herself at any cost, and seeing the mangled body in the fountain solidified her conviction.

"Do as you all will," she announced. "Save yourselves, and your families if you must. Trust no one whom you do not know better than your brother. Loose lips shall be the death of us all. We are alone. There is nobody from outside to help us through the wilderness, so those who plan to flee shall have no guide. I shed no tears over Kath, for though she was a brave woman, I have no compassion to spare."

Miss MCR, I understand your worry completely. We can trust no-one. But we must all work together to find the wolves, nonetheless.

[Nogrod]

Haha. I thought of going to sleep "early enough" but being secluded from the internet and social media for four days clearly takes it's toll... now I'm pondering whether to stay up to look for the presidential debate (updated: only forty minutes from now - but it ends soo late...)


Hey Coppermirror, nice to have your input. I don't think we have played together earlier. Welcome!

And it looks like you're playing and not just lurking around. Kudos for that - and I really appreciate that. We need people who play and just not hide in the corners.


That said, your comments or "analysis" ("advantages and disadvantages") of my first post seemed to be only restating what I said...

What you said you didn't get is the following.

Let's say you are a wolf X and you need to get someone killed by the rules which say there has to be at least two votes for the kill to take place in the first place. So how do you pick your choices when the kill demands others (you don't know who they are) to think the same way? So all the "high-profile" players are more probable to enter their lists as any wolf would pick them thinking the others would think like the same... So not so much strategical discussion but trying to make the same pick other wolves would do (in your opinion). So the "obvious ones" die first.

Now I think the wolves have thought about that already (they are not stupid to not have thought of that) so that can be said out aloud. And why I think we should speculate on this is actually that the wolves need to be also afraid of killing their mates so an open discussion might help us making their picks harder.

We need to stir the pot.


On another note.

I can't see why some thought the wolves would be underhanded in this game because they didn't know each others' identities? I mean if they don't happen to aid lynching one of their fellows (3/11 chance on D1) we have no way of findng a connection which is the only good way of hunting them down as there is no connection in the first place.

So many shots in the dark to follow. Let's pray Valar we get them right.

And no, this is no pessimism. Just stating the facts and encouraging everyone to make their best!

[Coppermirror]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Hey Coppermirror, nice to have your input. I don't think we have played together earlier. Welcome!

Thank you! This is only my second game, but I'm sure I've seen your name before.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What you said you didn't get is the following.

Let's say you are a wolf X and you need to get someone killed by the rules which say there has to be at least two votes for the kill to take place in the first place. So how do you pick your choices when the kill demands others (you don't know who they are) to think the same way? So all the "high-profile" players are more probable to enter their lists as any wolf would pick them thinking the others would think like the same... So not so much strategical discussion but trying to make the same pick other wolves would do (in your opinion). So the "obvious ones" die first.

That makes some sense. What I didn't understand was why the everyone acting wolvish strategy you proposed would make high-profile players more likely to die, but it seems that's not what you were suggesting after all. Unless I'm still missing something. I am a bit tired today.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

I personally think that, given how small the amount of villagers there is compared to the amount of wolves, a technique which will keep us from having something to analyse today and tomorrow could prove to be pretty disastrous. The wolves need information, but I think we need information more.

Also, there is a chance some of the wolves already know each other, since they had a dream last night - obviously we cannot know whether they succeeded, but I think it's a point to remember. And a further point, I think, against just trying to seem wolvish.

I think that's persuasive. Today's the day with the lowest chance of the wolves already knowing who the others are. If there isn't any real discussion today, there's no behaviour to compare later behaviour against. And behaviour should change, sooner or later, unless the wolves are very unlucky with their dreams. I hope that makes sense.

It would be great if some more people would post, but the Day's still young. I hope everyone knows the game is running.

[Pomegranate]

Pom sat on the ground for a long time, her head bent and her eyes seeing nothing. Everything seemed to happen around her as if in a haze. People walked around her, shaking their heads and murmuring sad words, all glancing towards her every so often, sometimes with compassion, sometimes with the same doubt that was in their expressions all the time these days.

Suddenly she rose. She was sad - yet it was time to do something.

I personally think that, given how small the amount of villagers there is compared to the amount of wolves, a technique which will keep us from having something to analyse today and tomorrow could prove to be pretty disastrous. The wolves need information, but I think we need information more.

Also, there is a chance some of the wolves already know each other, since they had a dream last night - obviously we cannot know whether they succeeded, but I think it's a point to remember. And a further point, I think, against just trying to seem wolvish.

Edit. x/ed with Nog's #6.

[Pomegranate]

Regarding obvious kills. No-traces should be the second pretty obvious group of targets - though, on a second thought, especially if the wolves don't know each other, there is not quite as many traces left by a kill of a loud player than there would usually be. Indeed, agree with Nog about his point on the wolves not being underhanded by the set-up of the game.

[Coppermirror]

It's quiet! Just 4 people out of 11 have shown up so far. I suppose that means most of the players must be in time zones where it's been inconvenient for them to drop into the forums so far. But it's getting to be inconvenient for my time zone, and that means I probably won't be back to this thread until I wake up in the morning, which should be somewhere between 4 and 6 hours before the deadline.

[Coppermirror]

I need to vote soon, but four people haven't posted in this thread yet, and there hasn't been a lot of discussion. I'll look at the people who have posted so far:

Nogrod: Has some ideas to discuss, wants to stir the pot. I don't know enough about his playing style to know whether his tone and style are normal for him. I don't want to vote for him because he's the first poster and was willing to get the conversation going.

MCR: Wrote a stylish in-character segment. If it reflects her actual views, it might indicate she's going to pursue an especially non-co-operative strategy, which would be interesting to see, if so. But it might be very good cover for a wolf. It's her first game, so I won't vote for her on the first Day without better suspicions than this.

Pom: Seems bright and makes good observations. I don't want to vote for them.

Nerwen: Made a good joke! But in paranoia-vision, was that good joke a handy way to say "I really am a wolf, so don't kill me" to the wolves? I don't want to vote for someone who makes a good joke like that, but can't rule her out on those grounds.

Rune: Brief post, makes a quick mention of his opinion about Nogrod's proposal.

Boromir: Had RL problems delaying him. Writes an amusing post and decides to vote for Nerwen, although he seems to have find a point interesting in Nogrod's posts too, on the topic of signals. I can't seem to find that bit.

Greenie, Shasta, Sally, Skip Spence: aren't here yet. Do they know the game is running? Out of these four I've only played with Shasta and Sally before and don't know anything about the other two.

I am really loath to vote for someone who hasn't shown up. If they did know the game is on, leaving things this late is suspicious. If they didn't know, then I don't want to vote for them, but I have no way of knowing which it is. I'm also loath to select my vote only from among the people who have shown up in a timely manner, as doing that seems unfair. This is difficult.

[Coppermirror]

I have to go, and so I am going to vote

++ Rune

because he posted fairly late on, and kept his post short and without much of a contribution to the discussion. In other words, it looked very safe and hard to respond to. There's very little else to go on, so I'm picking him because his post looked the most as if it fits my idea of what a sensible wolf would do.

I am still suspicious of the four who haven't shown up yet. I think it's worth considering the next Day that some of them might have been avoiding posting until late toDay so that they could escape being considered as voting choices. That doesn't help the village.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I seem to have made a calculation error regarding deadline, so I will have to cast a quick vote without much analysis, or even having made a proper contribution my self... I do apologize.

++Pomegranate

It is a shot in the dark.

I do not wish to vote for Nogrod or Boromir, I like them. I do not wish to vote for a an inexperienced villager on the first day. I do not wish to start a bandwagon. I do not wish to make retaliation votes. And finally I do not wish to vote for people who had not said a thing. That leaves me with precious few voting options at this given hour...

If I was to make a case against Pomegranate, I would say that while her posts are reasonable enough... She should really follow her own advice more and try to kick-start the conversation in this village (if she really think we need information more than the wolves).

Yup a pretty weak case, but as I said, it is a shot in the dark vote.

[Nogrod]

I thought I'd have a page or two to read... well, it seems not.

It fits well with my busy day though so actully I'm happy about it, but gamewise this is just one of the worst D1's ever - if not the worse, like what, 14 posts the whole Day? (Okay, I've done myself only two so I admit being one to blame with everyone else)

I did call Greenie and she is not probably able to get to the computer before the DL toDay. Just FYI.

Okay. I'll give the little we have some thought and try to make my mind on it.

[Nogrod]

Well, just an initial thought first. It is a generic problem of D1's that what you have is more or less little or nothing to go for. We have done some heroic voting based on sound reasoning on D1's as well, but that would require a couple of pages of posting and really finding something fishy from how people go with their posting.

The most common way to catch a wolf on D1 is - on top of catastrophical slips, early given seer-dreams, or just pure luck - is finding out them revealing a relationship of some sort to their mates. But with the wolves in as dark as we are with whom to vote there is no such a thing to be observed as there is not that behaviour. And sadly we can't even use toDay's voting later on as a treasury for information as there probably isn't any here - unless some of the wolves did find each other last Night, which I think is possible but not too probable, if I understood the rules correctly.

That said - and here's my second thought for the moment. Of those posted I could say that Nerwen's "howl" and Rune's emphasis on his vote being "a shot in the dark" look the most plausible candidates for the wolves trying to signal each other. But that is sadly little to go for.

So to read then...

EDIT: X'd with MCR

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

I seem to be having difficult making a decision as well. I've looked through at others' viewpoints, and they all seem reasonable. However, I've got to agree with Coppermirror. Rune gave little to the discussion, and his post was quite short.

How does one act wolfish? Fake Freudian slips? Howl at the moon?

This seems as though it could be a cover, a way to hide his own wolfishness. So, my vote is for

++Rune

[Coppermirror]

Dropping in quickly again, I think there may be a problem with my previous post, as I didn't put my vote on a separate line. I am going to go back to edit it, but only to put the line in.

[Coppermirror]

YesterDay was a shambles, with so few posts. We don't have a lot to go on from that. At least with there being no Night kill this time, there's a little less time pressure.

Day 1 - Innocent lynched. Village 7, Wolves 3.
Night 2 - No death. Village 7, Wolves 3.

The worst case scenario from this point on is:

Day 2 - Innocent lynched. Village 6, wolves 3.
Night 3 - Innocent killed. Village 5, wolves 3.
Day 3 - Innocent lynched. Village 4, wolves 3.
Night 4 - Innocent killed. Village 3, wolves 3. Village loses, wolves win.

...Actually, I see I'm wrong. This doesn't give us less time pressure. If there had been a Night kill, we'd simply have lost at the end of Day 3. rather than on Night 4. We have to catch a wolf toDay or tomorrow. There's also a chance that the wolves will kill one of their own, but that chance reduces as time goes on, and judging by the lack of a Night kill, it's reasonably likely that two of them are in contact. Or it could be as Nogrod suggested: maybe at least one wolf is in among the people who didn't show and are at risk of being mod-fired. Statistically there are good odds that at least one of those at risk of mod-fire is a wolf.

People who didn't post yesterDay, even if you won't have time for a proper post until later in the Day, if you see this thread, could you make a quick post early on, if possible? That way we'll know whether you're still at risk of mod-fire. And players who didn't vote, could you tell us whether you're going to be able to vote toDay?

Risk of mod-fire
Those who didn't post: A Little Green, Sally, Skip Spence.
Those who didn't vote: Pom, Nerwen.

If some players really are going to get mod-fired, I'm not sure what the best plan is for toDay. There are too many variables here, not knowing who's going to show up. I'd like to be able to work out the odds of whether Nog's suggestion of possibly lynching Skip Spence would be to our advantage.

So yes, players at risk of mod-fire, please post to this thread ASAP, even if it's just to say "I'll be back later to vote". Nog, you said you'd spoken to A little Green, right? Did she say anything about whether she would be able to play toDay?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

People who didn't post yesterDay, even if you won't have time for a proper post until later in the Day, if you see this thread, could you make a quick post early on, if possible? That way we'll know whether you're still at risk of mod-fire. And players who didn't vote, could you tell us whether you're going to be able to vote toDay?

I could'n agree more with this.

And Shasta has already shown himself... Greenie knows the game has begun and will most probably post something toDay - it is just that it is about 2 am here in Finland (and I'm going to sleep as well) so it might take some time she's going to be around.

Skip and Sally I know nothing about, but have the vague idea Sally posted something on the admin thread (or somewhere) and thence I suggested Skip. I might be wrong with Sally though and could suggest her as well, unless they don't turn out (and needs to check that tomorrow - not toMorrow aka. D3 - whether Sally has made a comment on being around or not).

And this later thought that two wolves know each other and thusly their choices are less likely to succeed must be bore in mind. It sounds odd indeed, but if it is the case, then we might have all our wolves active... which would sound more reasonable indeed.


There is sadly little to go for from yesterDay both because of the low posting but also because the wolves most probably didn't know each others - or only two of them knew each other. So not much to delve into there by the way of helping a mate there or something like that we could try to catch on.

But it (yesterda's voting & relations of people) should be looked after anyway as there is little else to do while waiting others to post. But I'm off to sleep now. See you later toDay...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

the wolves most probably didn't know each others - or only two of them knew each other.

Well, obviously one of the two is true as they didn't manage to kill anyone in a village with no ranger to deny their kill...

[satansaloser2005]

I am terribly sorry about yesterDay, everyone. I have had a horrific week thus far, and I only remembered the game started because my prince had asked me to tell our charming moddess of his own absence. Sadly, tonight and tomorrow will likely be light on WW as well, but I shall do my best to make up for it thereafter.

I suppose I should probably go read the thread now....

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I suppose I should probably go read the thread now....

The muffin should do that...