The Orc who knew too much

[Inziladun]

Hmm, don't remember thinking of this before.

It's a lot of conjecture, because we aren't told a great deal about Grishnákh. He does make an interesting statement, though. When threatening Uglúk, he says:

'They (Lugburz) might think that Uglúk's shoulders needed relieving of a swollen head.....They might agree with me, with Grishnákh their trusted messenger (emphasis added) and I Grishnákh say this: Saruman is a fool, and a dirty treacherous fool. But the Great Eye is on him'.

So, he's a "messenger"? From whom to whom? Could he have been part of a contingent sent from Mordor to Isengard in response to the drama with Gandalf's capture and escape? That could explain for his knowledge of Saruman, and the latter's desire for the Ring. I would think it possible that some of the higher ranking Orcs could have been told that Saruman was looking for a ring, and couldn't be allowed to have it. Even Sauron couldn't keep all his underlings completely in the dark (pun not intended).

Add in the possibility that Grishnákh could have heard rumors about Gollum's earlier capture, or even had a hand in it. And, later, Gollum was allowed to "escape" from Mordor by Sauron. That sort of thing would cause tremendous curiosity among Sauron's servants in the know, and I don't think it's unlikely that some news of why Gollum was important to Sauron could have been discovered by the rank and file.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Add this tidbit, from the Chronology: Ugluk and his band, long before G ever showed up, had captured Gollum lurking on the borders of Lorien, and Questioned him. Not only that, but here's the interesting part- from this Ugluk was able to deduce that the Ring had been present. And still more interesting, this last bit of crucial info he elects NOT to include in his report to Orthanc.

Now, how on earth did Ugluk know so much? And how does that color his response to Grishnakh?

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Add this tidbit, from the Chronology: Ugluk and his band, long before G ever showed up, had captured Gollum lurking on the borders of Lorien, and Questioned him. Not only that, but here's the interesting part- from this Ugluk was able to deduce that the Ring had been present. And still more interesting, this last bit of crucial info he elects NOT to include in his report to Orthanc.

Now, how on earth did Ugluk know so much? And how does that color his response to Grishnakh?

Going back to this if I may. Saruman had a habit of accusing Gandalf and others of crimes he was guilty of himself. I like to think of him as a master of projection. Perhaps Saruman's projecting rubbed off on his captains.

[Findegil]

Could he have commanded them if he had the Ring? Not likely- see Letter 246. Their primary bondage was to their own Rings, which Sauron held.

That is why I wrote 'in a way'. As specified in that letter in the case of Frodo, the Nazgûl would not have attacked him directly, and they would have tried to follow his commands at least seemingly to trick him into some trap. But such a situation would have been anythink else than idael for the Nazgûl.

Respecfuly
Findegil

[Formendacil]

It's worth pointing out, I think, just how LITTLE we know about Mordor--other than Sauron himself and the Nazgûl, almost none of its history is covered in the Appendices, and other than Grishnákh, Shagrat, and Gorbag, we don't see any of its citizens interacting. The fact that Grishnákh seems to know more than the other two tells us something, but we don't want to overinterpret it: we don't know if it means he has knowledge that's as shocking as a random Guardsman knowing Denethor is using a palantír or if it's more on the level of Sam being more aware of the Elves than Ted Sandyman.

I think there's a tendency to think of Mordor as a secretive society, partly because we know so little about it and partly because to the good guys the Ring (and what they're doing with it) is a great and terrible secret, but we don't actually know what is secret and what is public in Mordor. In a "panopticon" sort of way, I wonder if things might have been more dreadfully public than we think.