What will you choose?

[Child of the 7th Age]

And with regards to living on ME, I'd love to teach side by side with Child...It's a great thing to do.

Sounds good! How do you feel about teaching hobbit children? And let's do a good job--not make them hate the stuff that's really great, but too many teachers seem to take the heart out of it. Let's see. We'd want to teach them the heritage of the Red Book, how to read Westron, some basic math they'd need to tend their farms and families. Also, stuff relating to their own Shire and families--maybe let them tell us about their family histories and, of course, local flora and fauna. And we'll have days for Elf Appreciation, Ent Appreciation, etc. Sounds like it could be fun.

[NyteSky]

i had a dream a lot like that. very realistic. i chose to go to the other world. and it wasn't even ME. How did Sam put it? "i would dearly love to see elves" something like that. and i'd take whatever friends that would be willing to go. a certain elf and hobbit come to mind...

[Auriel Haevasawen]

I would go to ME. I would be a traveller, a little like a female ranger (I was a forest warden once it was the best job I ever had but I never carried a bow or sword and had to pick up other people's rubbish). I would drink in the Prancing Pony, ride to Rivendell and spend time conversing with the elves, sit on the grass outside Bag End and listen to Sam, Bilbo and Frodo, I would explore Mirkwood and learn archery from Legolas and I would spend the winter with my good friends Faramir and Eowyn in the White city. As you can see I have spent many years considering this very question. I would take no person with me but I'd need to wear my silver rings and stuff because they are a part of me.
Sorry if anyone reading this is now a little spooked. I am quite normal, I'm just a dreamer.

[Neferchoirwen]

About teaching, I was watching Oprah this morning, and her show had something to do with education. He guest says that each child has a different wiring on his or her brain, and that it is cruel to kick kids out of school just because their brains work different from the others.

When you said something about not making the kids hate the great stuff, I remembered what I just watched.

Yeah, teaching hobbit children would be great. My post about destiny now makes me believe that if ever there WAS a portal leading to ME with my choice whether or not I would go, I believe that my destiny to ME would be to educate the future of ME!

Sounds exciting, Child. I hope a portal would appear in my room tonight...

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

...each kid has a different wiring on his or her brain, and it is cruel to kick kids out of school just because their wiring is different...

I can certainly identify with what you're saying. I have a daughter who is extremely talented in things like gymnastics and piano and has a loving pesonality, but she finds language a challenge. She is the exact opposite of me--I love and feel comfortable with words but am physially and visually inept. We had her tested and found out she has an "auditory processing disorder." We had to search and search for the right school to make sure she would get the education she needed and also feel good about herself and learning. Fortunately, we found such a school and she's very happy.

She is also left-handed and quite creative. She is the one other person in our family besides myself who seems to have an absolute radar and understanding for hobbits, elves, and Middle-earth. (I know she would go left through the portal!) So, children who aren't strong in one area can be very gifted in another.

Yes, it would be challenging and fun to be a teacher in a place like Middle-earth. You'd have to be very careful to respect their culture and not try and remake them into something they're not (turning hobbits into elves or some such nonsense which could be a real temptation.) Anyways, if you see any stray portals, let me know. sharon, the 7th age hobbit

I would go left. And for only one reason. ADVENTURE. I want to go on an adventure and help people and be someone. In Middle-Earth it seems that you can do that. On Earth you'll end up in the middle of nowhere in TX with no adventure at all. In middle-earth everything and every place you go you meet elves, dwarves etc. so, left it is for me. how bout u guys?

May it be an evening star shines down upon you?
May it be when darkness falls your heart will be true?
You walk a lonely walk
Oh how far you are from home
May it be the shadow's call will fly away?
May it be a journey on to light the day?
When the night is all gone
You may rise to find the sun

[Neferchoirwen]

hey Child! You teach kids? I've got an aunt and cousins living there, and she teaches, too. Was just hoping that maybe you might have met her. I'll try to remember where she teaches...

[Neferchoirwen]

hey Child! You teach kids? I've got an aunt and cousins living there, and she teaches, too. Was just hoping that maybe you might have met her. I'll try to remember where she teaches...

[Olo Gamwich]

I would sit in the interdemensional portal...waiting and thinking, throwing a tennis ball up against the wall...waiting and thinking. And once I've made up my mind which door to go in I will go in the opposite door of the one I chose, for sitting and waiting in the room forever will have messed up my mind to the point where I will make a stupid decision.
[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[Aosama, the Wandering Star]

Not even hard at all! I've been spending every spare waking moment since I read LOTR thinking about ME, imagining myself there. So now, I'll never give up a chance to actually go there!!!
I'd have to take along my older sister, even though she is annoyed by me (a lot), because she would want to go on adventures with me. Which is what I would do.
I'd probably go to the Shire first, then work my way to Bree, Rivendell, the Misty Mountains, Rohan, Gondor, to Ithilien. No Mordor for me! (unless, o'course, I had to destroy an evil ring...)

[Neferchoirwen]

Olo, I think I know what you mean...I've done something similar---but I was still in high school then. Nevertheless, I know what you mean.
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[TheWindsorStar]

Now this is actually pretty hard. For one, if I went to the left, I'd be leaving behind a lot of things. Also, ME isn't exactly the safest place. But neither is our world. And let's just assume you'd be able to speak the language.

I'd go to the left for these reasons:

1. Obviously, I'd want to live in ME
2. It wouldn't be hard for me to pick which people I'd bring with me
3. Staying as a human wouldn't be an issue
4. It's much nicer there, and much less polluted
5. The gender thing wouldn't be an issue. I'm not big on real political correctness, nor am I much of a feminest. Tolkien didn't really write his females as being less superior to men anyway.
6. Even if there was a chance of me being killed, I'd go. It'd be better than turning down such a chance. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Enedhil]

Windsor, I agree with you - like I always say, bring back the horse and cart! much less pollution!!

And as for being killed - rather it were by a sword or arrow than living in fear of a nuclear war, or any war with the weapons we have these days.

Staying a human no problem, perhaps I could work in the gardens or in the house of healing. whilst writing music and poetry in my spare time, God this life sounds too good to be true....

..oh wait, it is too good to be true... [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Enedhil ]

[Child of the 7th Age]

This was a fun question, and I thought I'd pull it up again, since we have a number of new posters.

By the way, I'm still going left! Only now, I'll have to make sure some of my friends from the Downs are with me as well as my family and closest friends here! Actually, the ones from the Downs would be the most helpful since they know something about the world we'd be visiting.

I'd have to give my husband a crash course in LotR, although he has seen the movie twice (because his wife insisted).

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[*Varda*]

Well, when I first read the question, I thought LEFT! without a doubt!

But then I sat and thought about it some more. Think about what you'd be giving up. Sure, this world is a crappy place in many ways. But even so - you'd be leaving many people you loved behind, you'd never see them again. It would be a major culture shock and who's to say you would actually fit in when you got there. How long could you realistically survive without proper sanitation, computers, tv etc. I know many say 'hey, that'd be easy!'. It could be different once you were there. You'd always be wondering what was going on in this world. You'd never know what happened to your family and friends that didn't come with you. And add to that Middle Earth was slowly fading away...the elves were fast disappearing.

But if you didn't go...you would be forever wondering what would have happened, what could have been. All those what if's. What would life have been like. You could have left this shallow material world and been in a far more beautiful world where appearances didn't seem to matter so much. You could have been a part of that history.

So, after all that, I still don't know. If I could be an elf (therefore being able to go to Aman, live forever etc.) and if I could take all my family and all my friends - I would go left. But what if you couldn't place conditions? I think I would stay here. But then I'd always feel regretful.

But as was previously said, if a portal just opened up, I would think it must have done for a reason. There would be some reason I should go to Middle Earth. But if my friends and family didn't want to come - I don't know if I could go alone and leave my whole life behind me.

[ June 30, 2003: Message edited by: *Varda* ]

[Artilien]

Good question...
I wouldn't go left. not that i dont want to go to middle earth - i would love to. but not to live there. i cant use weapon, i cant do anything that would help me survive in ME. And I wouldn't like to go to ME alone. if I would go, I would ask only a few people to go with me. but I can't just take my friends away from this world and away from their friends and family. so i would go right.

[The-Elf-Herself]

As much as I like ME, I wouldn't be able to go there permanently. This would entail me leaving behind three cockatiels, two basset hounds, and a mouse who are my responsibility(and whom I love very much). Furthermore, I also happen to enjoy certain modern conviences, including sanitation, computers, CDs, etc. Maybe I could give these up, but for what? Realistically, I would be out there alone, with limited training in swordmanship(fencing anyone?). I wouldn't be able to pursue the occupation I wished(veterinarians in ME? I don't think so). If I'm not mistaken, women did not have the job/life opportunities in ME that they have today. In addition, I am very close to my family, yet I wouldn't be able to take them with me; I know that they would be miserable in such conditions. Hmmm. Maybe I could take a vacation in ME? As an elf from the Grey Havens. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Rimbaud]

You give yourself no credit for your inherent adaptability. Additionally, you assume that entry into ME would necessitate skill in combat. The majority of the inhabitants of ME lived in relative peace. A very small percentage of the total population went on quests to destroy Rings or overthrow evil angels. As Child postulated earlier...if you can survive rural environs on this planet (which I have little doubt you could) then you could survive a faux-medieval existence in ME.

This is not to deny that prior experience of handling a sword or more likely a hoe, or a plough, would be useful, but such things can be learned. The human being is an peculiarly adaptable tool.

[Raefindel]

Boy I avoided this question when it was origionally posted. I just couldn't decide.

To be honest with you I don't think I'd go to ME. At least not in my current circumstances. I don't think my kids could handle going there. At least, one would have trouble with it, anyway.

And I don't think Eru would give me the choice in these circumstances. If I were to loose my family (God forbid) I can see the offer being made.

In THOSE circumstances; ABSOLUTELY! I'd go. And I'd bring my Mother-in-law with me! I'd love to see that woman try to do dishes & laundry without hot running water! HAHAHA! She can't hang a picture without help! HAHAHA! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Let's give this a try again and see what some of the new folk think.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

sharon

[ June 30, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Darby]

Oh, this would be a hard one. The thing is, I couldn't leave Earth without my family. But I couldn't go ripping my husband and children out of their world without their permission, either.
So, my response to the voice would have to be, "I need to discuss it with my husband."
Well, the story would probably end right there, but let's assume my husband suddenly appears in the portal beside me.
Knowing him, he'd have some questions for the voice.
1. Where and when precisely will we be appearing in Middle Earth? The third age was very long, and we don't want to live in say, the Southlands.
2. What will be our means of support?
3. How will we earn a living?
4. What about medical care?
5. Can we speak the language?
6. Will we be able to read the writing?
7. What will our position in society be?
A quote from my husband, "I am not so unhappy with the comforts of my life here, that I would give them up for the dubious pleasure of being a swineherd in the Southlands of Middle Earth, shortly fated to become a miserable refugee or impressed into the armies of darkness."
I think I agree with him. I'd be really really sorry to miss out on the chance to see Middle Earth, but I can't risk the lives of my family.

My fantasy? That I'd get to escape there all by myself for a limited period of time, and when I came back not a minute would have passed here and I wouldn't have aged at all. (Like visiting Narnia.)
My other fantasy? To be able to step into the mind and body of a particular character and play through the book like it was really happening. I'd probably pick Merry or Pippen, though I waffle on which one I'd rather follow through the books.

[Olorin]

I would go left in a heartbeat. I just wish I could become one of the elves. I would probably live in Rivendell because it's so beautiful and they allow men. However, if for some reason, like I couldn't find Rivendell, I would probably live in Bree. It just seems nice there.

I'll go to the left for here isn't much loved in this life.I have suffered much and if I had such chance,I would never go back.
And would take my Mellon,Jeff with... if he would follow me.Aphado nin(follow me) towards Lothlorien,Caras Galadhon... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Thank you Child of the 7th Age for bringing your thread back from the dead. (no more rhyming for me)

Well, my decision would be completely without regret. I know which world I belong in. I know that there are plenty of opportunities waiting for me around the corner and so much to see and do and know and hear and smell and taste and feel. Which is why I would choose right. I would think back on my decision and I would feel warm inside and smile.

I could not leave this life, no matter how great Middle-earth is. There are plenty of things I would like to do there, like visit Tom Bombadil and question his enigmatic brains out. Or to try the beer there or go on numerous adventures into mountains or caves. Not to mention relaxing in the Shire and other peaceful places and visiting Ithilien. But is it worth it to permenantly leave your life? There are to many people I know in my life that I could not leave. There is so much to do in this world. I could not bring everyone I wanted to ME and even if I were allowed to, who's to say they would come? And I think it's just plain selfish to make people choose to leave the life they love permenantly just to make you happy.

I could not do without the music we have in this world. I could not do without the places I love to go. And there are so many more people yet to meet. I don't think of not choosing to go to ME as a missed chance and something to regret, I think of not living the rest of my life in this world as something to regret and a missed chance.

I don't know whether I believe we are put in this world for a purpose. I don't like the idea of destiny or purposes either, so I like to think that we are born to live our lives freely and it is me who shapes, plans, and lives my life and that it is becuase of my decisions and choices that my life ends the way it will. So, I don't believe that if the door to ME is there it is there for a reason and that we have to (or should) choose it. Why not just think of this choice as a challenge or a test by some greater form of life and that we are asked to continue to live in our world for a purpose? And then would you choose to stay?

On Earth you'll end up in the middle of nowhere in TX with no adventure at all. In middle-earth everything and every place you go you meet elves, dwarves etc.

What's the difference? You are "in the middle of nowhere in TX with no adventure at all" because you choose to be. You would leave that life all behind, permenantly, in an instant, where you can go seek adventure in ME, but in reality, you refuse to leave it all behind, permenantly, and go seek adventure in this world? That's madness! If people are so needy of adventure why don't they go and seek it? Because they don't want to leave behind their life with their family and friends? Then why would the choose to go to ME? They would leave their life then. At least in this world, you can always come back.

And who's to say you would meet dwarves and elves at every place you go? You might end up in Bree stuck farming for a living saying "I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere in Eriador with no adventure at all."

for here isn't much loved in this life.I have suffered much and if I had such chance,I would never go back.

Amanfalath, can you honestly say you would not regret permenantly leaving this life? If you have suffered, time can always heal suffering. And who's to say you won't suffer in ME? Everyone must suffer in life. Suffering is a part of life but it is not the only thing. There is much you can look forward to in this life.

Your decision is up to you, but I just can't see why some of you would choose left. I was born in this world and that's where I belong. I love it and I cannot leave it.

[ June 30, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[peonydeepdelver]

I would no doubt go- "Remember, all I am offering is the truth..." ...er, yeah, um, left. I'd bring along none of my school buds since they despise the books so. But I would bring my best friend Ivy and her cousin Charleigh since for Halloween we all went as hobbits (I was Merry, Charleigh was Pippin, and Ivy was Frodo). And I'd bring my dog if that was allowed, and if I could I'd bring Bearito, the pony I ride at my riding lessons (who is also the only pony there that actually listens to me when I tell him to do stuff [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] ).
Then we'd all go to live in either Bree with the hobbits (Nob! YAY!), or Rohan if it's before the Uruk-Hai are created. That Westfold level in the TTT game for Playstation 2 has me kinda freaked about the Uruks coming and setting everything on fire and stuff. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Or maybe I'd convince the Rohirrim to let me join their little army. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[Darby]

Grounds Keeper Willie, you're my hero! [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]
I really hadn't thought beyond my responsibilities to my family, but you've stated how I feel very well. I *would* regret never being able to see ME, but only in the sense that I've always wondered what it looks like and maybe other people will see it and I won't. So, I can't really say a choice like this would make me feel particularly warm inside. More like an anguished, "But I can't!"
But you are sooo right about all the wonder and adventure right here in THIS world. I love living, and I hope I get to live a very long time so I can see as big a part of the story as I possibly can. When my great grandmother was born, there were no cars in our driveways. When I was born there were no computers in our homes. What will our lives look like when I'm 60? When I'm 100? What kind of cool new toys will there be? What kind of history will we make? What tragedies, what triumphs, what wonders?
Hmm... If I had to go to ME permanently, I'd miss all that. And then I'd regret THAT choice. For me, I don't think there IS a choice without any regret, but I'd get over it pretty quick if I stayed in this world. All I'd have to do is think about my mother (who would NOT be happy in ME away from her books and her students), and my children, and my in-laws, and all the people who would miss us terribly because we couldn't possibly take them with us.
My dd is scheduled to have a few surgeries over the next few years. It's not a life-threatening condition, but it's something we could not treat in ME. Would it be fair to her, to uproot her and deny her that medical treatment? What about the fact that she'll need new glasses this fall?
Yep, you're right. Thanks for reminding me! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Edit - something rather horrible just occurred to me as I was thinking further on GKW's post. Usually the only way you can leave THIS Earth permanently is by dying. What if the doors aren't actually doors between this world and ME, but doors between Life and Death? What happens after death? Is it any stretch to think you might continue your existance in a place like ME, when the major world religions seriously believe in things like Heaven and Reincarnation and Transmigration of the Soul and whatnot?
In which case, it's rather appalling to think of taking anyone with you, and completely awful to think of leaving them behind.
You may *think* you're in a mysterious place with two doors in front of you, but in actual fact you're in a hospital bed somewhere because you and most of your loved ones were caught in a gas line explosion, and now it's up to YOU whether they live and die.
Eeek! [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

[ June 30, 2003: Message edited by: Darby ]

[Arien]

When I first saw the question I thought, yeah sure, I would love to live in Middle Earth. But after thinking it over in my Physics revision lesson, I am not so sure.

Firstly the thing about taking a few people with you; would they be as willing to go as I was? Would they want to leave everything behind? Unless our minds were connected, I wouldn't know. I only know one person who would come with me for certain. And then there is that whole issue about modern necessities, could I live without them? I could live without TV as I don’t really watch that much, and when I do watch it, it is always on MTV or Kiss. I don’t think I could live without the music we have here now, but I am willing to try. Taking my pointe shoes would be a must, otherwise I don’t think I would go. Reading, well I am sure there will be enough of that.

Food, I am a vegetarian, a very fussy one at that so food might be a problem. But hey I could live on, apples, bread, apples, bread, apples and bread. And no running HOT water would be annoying but I could get over it.

But despite all the bad things, I mean come on its Middle Earth! So it would be a yes for me.

[peonydeepdelver]

Usually the only way you can leave THIS Earth permanently is by dying.

Duh, Darby, you can always go to live on the moon! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

No, but my serious response to that is I think that people can believe what they want about Life and Death. I believe in reincarnation instead of Heaven and Hell, despite I'm Catholic. But I don't believe that we come back as human, I believe we come back as animals or something like that. I know some people believe (like ancient Egyptians and ancient Greeks) that we go to another world, like an afterlife sort of thing, which means that there's no doubt that some of those people believe after Death we go to Middle-earth. If this is true, then there's no question as to whether you would want to or not, but you must.

Man, I'm rambling again, aren't I? I hate it when I do that! [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] Oh well. To lighten the mood of this post, I'll just add that I think our world is too advanced. People have become too dependent on machines as simple as lightbulbs. And if there's on thing I hate about Earth, it's cars. People got around just fine 200 years ago without them, so why do we need them? Just get a horse or a buggy! Those don't pollute the Earth, and they don't need vast plains of asphault and tar to go anywhere! That's the real reason I'd go to Middle-earth. To get away from cars. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[Horse-Maiden of the Shire]

When I first saw this topic, I said Oh, pshaw! Easy! Left, left, left. "Mordor, Gandalf? Is it left or right?" "Left." That would be my choice. But having read over these posts, it's a big toughie. But I'll stick with my choice...left. I would take my mom, my dog, my cat, my best friend Elen, and my sister Katrina. Now, I know there will be no electricity or computers or TV or fridges or chocolate, but this is too big of a chance to pass up. The way I see it is that all of our lives, we've had it the easy way. We've had electricity and cars and the Barrow-Downs( [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]). I would like to see how it is to live the hard way, so to speak. To live with fire as our source of heat, to live with fire (again) as our source of light, and to never eat Kraft Dinner for the rest of our lives. I would probably take a couple bars of chocolate withe me, though. Then I would savour them, and savour them well. Also, like Birdland, somebody upstairs must be wanting me to take a change of pace because otherwise WHY would there be two portals you could go into? Why, Downers? Why?

All in all, I would pick left.

[Lush]

Moaning over the lost opportunity to taste Shire-brewed beer and make eyes at some hot Elven ranger, I'd go right, because I don't want to waste an opportunity to make this world a litte less crappy.

[Iarwain]

I'd go right too, for Lush's last stated reason, and the fact that I enjoy humanity, its history, and I'd like to keep my perception of reality as it is, without jumbling everything up into a mess of multidemensional portals and strange doors and wormholes and such. Middle-Earth may be realistic, it may be the most realistic fantasy ever devised, but it still remains but a shadow of what reality is, has been, and promises to become in the future.

Iarwain

[ July 01, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[Darby]

Peonydeepdelver, if you want to get away from cars, you could always go homesteading in the Northwest Territories! Get yourself a nice husky sled team, and get right back to nature. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] 'Course, I hear the bugs are just brutal any time it's warm enough not to be completely frozen, but hey - you could set up camp miles from nowhere and enjoy all the convienances of pre-modern life!
Seriously, though, I always was a little tempted by the idea of homesteading. Learning to live off the land, being completely self-sufficiant... I taught myself to knit instead, lol! And I console myself that I'd be at least a little useful if society collapsed, because I can knit, and I have successfully taught two children to read. I can build a waterproof shelter, and I know how to keep bears away from the campsite, and how not to get giardia. Oh, and I can use a rifle, and I've some familiarity with bow and arrow, too (though my aim stinks). And if I really tried, I might even remember how to make soap.
Still, Middle Earth would be a big adjustment. I don't think my origami skills would be in much demand. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Child of the 7th Age]

Lush, Iarwain, Willie, and many others,

You are very eloquent in your defense of the here and now, and our need to have people who will stand up and try to make a difference.

This is going to sound like a very strange thing to say, but I believe I may have a different view on this because of my age.

For over fifty years, I have been butting my head against the system in various shapes and forms. I went to college in the late sixties with all that that entailed, then grad school in medieval history, and eventually ended up marrying a labor organizer from the farmworkers who went to law school because he saw it as a way to change things. I've been a college professor, librarian, old style activist way back when, teacher, mom, and wife. And, believe me, I've enjoyed every minute of it.

If I'm still lucky enough to be here for the next fifty years, I'll keep searching for new windmills to tilt at. And, of course, there are plenty more unexplored.

Still,....every so often I get a hankering for something that goes beyond what I've seen and done on this planet, all those possibilities that I sense in this present reality. Something that builds on what we have here but manages to go beyond it. That's why I love myth. So if there was really some way to explore an alternative world like middle-earth and if I could bring the people I loved with me (that's a big "If"), I think I would take a shot at it.

And, in another strange way, I wonder just how different that left portal would be. I mean Elves and hobbits and dwarves all embody pieces of what we are as Men. Tolkien even said that. Although the externals of the world would be different and the physical appearance of "people" different, maybe at some gut level there might be more similarities than we think. I will admit I have a neighbor or two who fits the mode of certain hobbits in both a positive and negative sense.

sharon

[ July 02, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Neferchoirwen]

If I'd have a family, I'd think about them as well...but they'd have to migrate with me.

But I would never miss a chance to "migrate," if you will, to Middle Earth. Even if it's in the third age. What role will I play in the coming society as the third age wanes into the fourth age? Will I be one of the founders of the new alliance of men and dwarves? Will I be doing trade with Hobbits?

The possibilty of something new literally makes my adrenalin run through my brain, automatically sending me there virtually in my own imagination...

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I can honestly say that I would choose right without a moment's hesitation. Like many others, I would love to visit ME, but I would most certainly not wish to stay there permamently.

My main reasons are:

• I was born into this world and I feel very strongly that this is therefore where I belong. For me, ME is a place that I like to read and talk about. It is a place to which I can escape temporarily while reading. But, for me, there are other forms of escapism too - other books, films, television - not just ME. And there are just too many non-ME related things (people, places, interests, events etc) which root me firmly to this world and which in many ways define me.
• Most, if not all, of the people (family and friends) that I would wish to take with me would have no interest in going to ME whatsoever. And I would not feel able to impose a life in ME on my two young children, whose future is in this world. I could not deny them that future.
• Finally, although it is perhaps the weakest reason, I have no wish to do without the paraphenalia of modern living. I am unashamedly fond of cars, computers, modern music, hot running water, frozen food, dishwashers, washing-machines etc etc and I could not imagine life without them. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Yes, there are many aspects of this world that drive me to despair. But most of these - war, cruelty, suffering, corruption and the like - are present in ME too. And if my life here might occasionally feel dull and uninspiring, why would it be any different in ME? There is no guarantee that we would end up living the life of Reilly in Rivendell or Lothlorien or helping to save ME from the Dark Lord. As was said earlier, we might just as likely end up pig farming in Bree or begging in the streets of Minas Tirith. And if you feel confident that you would be able to find an inspiring life in ME or help to make a difference to that world, why should that not be the case in this world?

Yes, you may consider me an unromantic pragmatist, but there you have it. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Lush]

You are very eloquent in your defense of the here and now, and our need to have people who will stand up and try to make a difference.

I knew it! I can even make the word "crappy" eloquent! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I am so cool.

For over fifty years, I have been butting my head against the system in various shapes and forms.

See, the trick is: don't butt your head. Just live, knowing that you were given life for some reason, no matter how remote. Anyway, that's how I do it, without going insane about Chernobyl and Rwanda.

Having said that, I certainly would never hold your back from going left. No arm-twisting here! Certainly not from me! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Diamond18]

My first knee-jerk reaction was "right, right, right all the way", and I haven't changed my mind reading through the posts. Some reasons have been ably stated by others, but I'll try to explain it from my perspective, anyway.

First: (treating Middle-earth hypothetically as a real, alternate world) Middle-earth is a fallen world. For that reason, it is, at it's core, no different from this world. There are many superficial differences, ways ME is better, and ways our world is better, but I believe that in the end it all averages out into everything being the same old, same old. Good and evil, truth and lies, bravery and cowardice, intelligence and ignorance, life and death, etc. are all fundamental elements in both Middle-earth and our world. Because of that, the most important thing in life is not where you are, but who you are and what you do. Everyone is ultimately responisble for their own actions, regardless of circumstances or society. Middle-earth is no Heaven, so the same rules of personal responsibilty apply. I.E., happiness is not a state of being, but a state of mind.

There is, of course, the question of purpose and fate. I do believe that every person was created by God and put on earth at a certain time and place, for a reason. So I think we each have purpose in this world. Whether we actually fulfil our purpose is not, I think, a given. We have our free will, for better or for worse. But I do believe that the purpose is there.

I'm exploring this whole theme in a fantasy novel, in which two 20-year-old co-workers (not friends, which is an important point) enter a different world. In my story, this permanent transition fits their purpose in life, as I set up their "real" world lives as being quite directionless. They had no close friends, were utterly unapprieciated and ofttimes totally ignored by their families, and had not yet actively pursued improving their own lives. I did this because I saw that sort of situation as being the only justification for my removing them from this world into the other. I have them affect the other world in real and tangible ways. I didn't just send them there for fun, or as an escape. Because they don't escape their own selves, and they don't have fun. It's a hard experience for both of them. I never try to idealize that other world. Which world is better is not the point of the story, the point is having a purpose wherever you happen to be. They were failures at their purpose in this world, but I gave them a second chance in the other world. At the end of the story, I give them the choice to stay there or return here, and they stay, not because the other world is perfect, or comfortable, or even all that different, but because it's where they finally served a purpose and made a difference. So I guess what I'm saying with that story and this post, is that when you're given the choice, I think it's best to stay where God has put you. In my very fictional story, I just happen to be the "god" that decided my characters didn't belong in the world where they were born, and so put them in a different place.

Which seques into the point that Middle-earth isn't a real world. Tolkien's stories, and my stories, and all stories, are just stories about this world. Even if they take place in alternate imaginary worlds, all the elements are based off of/taken from this world.

I firmly believe that this is the only real world there is, besides Heaven and Hell. Exploring the concept of alternate universes is all well in good as part of the human imagination, but I'm not one to actually believe that I could go there (besides the imaginative experience of movies/books/TV/dreamng, etc.) I'm never going to Middle-earth, so when given the hypothetical choice to decide where I belong, I'm just going to say that I belong where I belong. I.E., I don't believe that I have a real choice. I think this is important to consider, because if you spend all your time wishing you were somewhere else where you can never be, you're just missing out on what is real where you are.

Of course, as a Christian, I believe that this world is just a stepping stone to Heaven, but that's a whole different philosopical ramble. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Iarwain]

Inspired by Diamond's applauseworthy summation, I think I'll explain my last post.

The thing about Middle-Earth is that it was created by an ordinary person. He may have had unusual talents with languages, and he was gifted with a wonderful imagination, but Tolkien was human, and his literary masterpiece reflects that fact infinitely. Middle-Earth may be incredibly realistic, but it is a fantasy. It may posess extraordinary depth and detail, yet it remains simplistic to an extreme, lacking a full history, while what it does have is a selective framework, missing the background of entire races. It is a myth. It was designed as such, and remains to be so. As a whole, it lacks the complexities of reality, while being inconsistent with the detail already provided.

Ever Wandering,
Iarwain

[ July 03, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

[peonydeepdelver]

Peonydeepdelver, if you want to get away from cars, you could always go homesteading in the Northwest Territories! Get yourself a nice husky sled team, and get right back to nature.

Actually I would do that, but I live in the NorthEAST, and it'd take a mighty long time to get over there. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Besides, I would still choose the red pill- er, Middle-earth anytime over the Northwest Territories. No offense to that good ol' unpopulated mass of land. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]