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Old 09-01-2017, 09:01 PM   #1
ArcusCalion
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Silmaril Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor

This is the first draft of the chapter Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor

Our basis text is that of Later Quenta Silamrillion given in HoME 11; page 173-175, based on the complete text given in HoME 5; pages 245-248. I have not tracked the changes from QS to LQ, but have taken them up silently into the text. Wherever the text is different from that this is marked by an editing mark.

The markings are:
SM-xx for questions of name change, phrase change, or some canon question.
SM-EX-xx for expansions to the text.

Some conventions of my writing:
Normal Text is from the basic text that is mentioned above (when I change the basic-Text it will be mentioned)
Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{example} = text that should be deleted
[example] = normalised text, normally only used for general changes
<source example> = additions with source information

Quote:
Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor

SM-EX-01 <AAm 164 It is told that the Valar sat long unmoved upon their thrones in the Ring of Doom, but they were not idle as Fanor said in the folly of his heart. For the {gods}[Valar] may work many things with thought rather than with hands, and without voices in silence they may hold council one with another. Thus they held vigil in the night of Valinor, and their thought passed back beyond E and forth to the End; yet neither power nor wisdom assuaged their grief, and the knowing of evil in the hour of its being. Neither did they mourn more for the death of the Trees than for the marring of Fanor: of all Melkor’s works the most
wicked.
165 For Fanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind: in valor, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtlety alike: of all the Children of Eru, and a bright flame was in him. The works of wonder for the glory of Arda that he might otherwise have wrought only Manw might in some measure conceive. And the Vanyar who held vigil with the Valar have recorded that when the messengers reported to Manw the answers of Fanor to his heralds Manw wept and bowed his head. But at that last word of Fanor: that at the least the Noldor should do deeds to live in song forever: he raised his head, as one that hears a voice afar off, and he said: 'So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus, even as Eru spoke to us, shall beauty not before conceived be brought into E, and evil yet be good to have been.'
'And yet remain evil,' quoth Mandos. 'To me shall Fanor come soon.'>
SM-EX-02 <LT Suddenly there {is}[was] a sound of wings in that place, for {Sorontur}[Sorontar] King of Eagles {is}[was] come again on strong wings through the dusk, and behold alighting on the boughs of darkened {Silpion}[Telperion] he {tells}[told] how {Melko}[Morgoth] {is}[was] now broken into the world and many evil spirits {are}[were] gathered to him: SM-01"{but," quoth he, "methinks never more will Utumna open unto him, and already is he busy making himself new dwellings in that region of the North where stand the Iron Mountains very high and terrible to see.} Yet O Manw Lord of the Air, other tidings have I also for thy ear, for lo! as I winged my way homeward hither over the black seas and over the unkindly lands a sight I saw of greatest wonder and amaze: a fleet of white ships that drifted empty in the gales, and some were burning with bright fires, and as I marveled behold I saw a great concourse of folk upon the shores of the Great Lands, and they gazed all westward, but some were still wandering in the ice — for know, this was at that place where are the crags of {Helkarakse}[Helcarax] and the murderous waters of {Qerkaringa}[Quercaringa?] flowed of old, which now are stopped with ice. Swooping methought I heard the sound of wailing and of sad words spoken in the Eldar tongue; and this tale do I bring to thee for thy unravelling." But Manw knew thereby that the {Noldoli}[Noldor] were gone forever and their ships burned or abandoned, and {Melko}[Morgoth] too was in the world.>
74 When the Gods learned that the Noldor had fled, and were come at last back into Middle-earth, they were aroused from their grief, and took counsel for the redress of the injuries of the world. SM-EX-03 <LT But at that time the {Gods}[Valar] were wildered in the gloom and had little counsel, and sought each one his home and places of old delight now dead, and there sat in silence and dark pondering. Yet some fared ever and anon out upon the plain and gazed wistfully at the faded Trees as though those withered boughs would one day burgeon with new light: but this came not to pass, and Valinor was full of shadows and of gloom, and the Elves wept and could not be comforted, and the {Noldoli}[Noldor] had bitter sorrow in the northern lands.
Thereafter in a great time it pierced the grief and the weariness of the {Gods}[Valar] that light {is}[had] gone from Valinor forever, and that never again {will}[would] those trees bloom at their appointed times. Only the light of the stars remained, save where a glow lay about the fountain of {Kulullin}[Culullin] playing still or a pale gleam lingered nigh deep {Telimpe}[Silindrin], vat of dreams. Yet even these were dimmed and tarnished, for the Trees bore dew no more for their replenishment.
Wherefore {does}[did] Vna arise and seek Lrin, and with them {go}[went] SM-02 {Urwendi}[Arien] and Silmo and many of both {Vali}[Maiar] and the Elves; and they {gather}[gathered] much light of gold and silver in great vessels and {fare}[fared] sadly to the ruined Trees. There {singeth}[sang] Lrin most wistful songs of magic and enchantment about the stock of {Silpion}[Telperion], and he bid water his roots with the radiance of {Telimpe}[Silindrin]; and this was lavishly done, albeit small store thereof remained now in the dwellings of the {Gods}[Valar]. In like manner {doth}[did] Vna, and she {sings}[sang] old golden songs of the happier days, and {bids}[bid] her maidens dance their bright dances even such as they were used to dance upon the sward of the rosegardens nigh {Kulullin}[Culullin], and as they danced she flooded the roots of Laurelin with streams from out her golden jars.
Yet all their singing and enchantment {is}[was] of little worth, and though the roots of the Trees {seem}[seemed] to drink all that they may pour, yet {can}[could] they see no stir of life renewed nor faintest gleam of light; nor withered leaf {glows}[glowed] with sap nor blossom {lifts}[lifted] its drooping stem. Indeed in the frenzy of their grief they had poured out all the last remaining stores of brightness that the {Gods}[Valar] retained, had not of a fortune Manw and Aul come upon them in that hour, being drawn thither by their singing in the gloom....
Then Vna said: "Pardon.....
Now was it the thought of many that those twain Lrin and Vna might not avail to heal the wounds of Laurelin and {Silpion}[Telperion], in that no word of the Earth-lady{, mother of magics,} was mingled in their spells. Therefore many said: "Let us seek {Palurien}[Kementri], for of her {magic}[power] maybe these Trees shall again know some portion of their ancient glory — and then if light be renewed Aul and his craftsmen may repair the hurts of our fair realm, and happiness will be once more twixt {Erumani}[Araman] and the Sea" — but of the darkness ...... for many many ages of the world. SM-03 Many things shall be done and come to pass, and the {Gods}[Valar] grow old, and the Elves come nigh to fading, ere ye shall see the rekindling of these Trees or the Magic Sun relit," and the Gods knew not what she meant, speaking of the Magic Sun, nor did for a long while after. But Tulkas hearing ....
Then said Vna: "How ...
"Nay," said Aul, "light may not be fashioned by smithcraft, O Vna-Laisi, nor can any even of the Gods devise it, if the sap of the Trees of wonder be dried forever." But {Palurien}[Kementri] answering also said: "Lo, O Tuivna, and ye beside of the {Vali}[Valar?/Maiar?] and of the Elves....There came even the leaders of the Elves and sat at the feet of the {Gods}[Valar], SM-04{nor had that before been done;} but when all were come together Aul arose and said: ...
Then was there a great silence ....
Then told he them concerning ....
Now the smallness of ....
Now golden light not even .... Yet even of this golden radiance was there no unfailing source, now that Laurelin dripped her sweet dew no more. SM-05.2{…} "Behold," said Manw, "this ...
So moving were the words ...
Then said Aul: "The task ye set me is of the utmost difficulty, yet will I do all that I may therein," and he begged the aid of Varda the starfashioner, and those twain departed and were lost in the gloom a great while.>
And Manw bade Yavanna and Ninna to put forth all their powers of growth and healing; and they put forth all their powers upon the Trees, but the tears of Ninna availed not to heal their mortal wounds; and for a long while Yavanna sang on alone in the shadows. SM-EX-03 <LT Then sorrowfully Yavanna stood upon the plain and her form trembled and her face was very pale for the greatness of the effort that her being put forth, striving against fate. SM-06 {The}[A] phial of {gold}[golden light] she held in her right hand and {the} silver in her left, and standing between the Trees she lifted them on high,....
"Vain, O {children of}[people of] the {Gods}[Valar]," she cried, "is all my strength....but Manw said: "Weep not, O {children}[people] of the {Gods}[Valar], the irreparable....left that place in sorrow, save {Vana}[Lrin] only, and {she}[he] clung to the bole of {Laurelin}[Telperion] and wept.
Now was the time of faintest hope and darkness most profound fallen on Valinor that was ever yet; and still did {Vana}[Lrin] weep, {and she twined her golden hair about the bole of Laurelin and her tears dropped softly at its roots;}> <moved from later: and he touched the wound in the bole of the Tree. Lo, even as he touched that cruel hurt, a light glowed faintly there as if radiant sap still stirred within, but a low branch above Lrin’s bowed head burgeoned suddenly, and leaves of a very dark green, long and oval, budded and unfolded upon it, yet was all the Tree beside bare and dead and has ever been so since. {Now it was at that time seven times seven days since the fruit of noon was born upon Laurelin, and many}[Many] of the Eldar and of the {sprites}[Maiar] and of the {Gods}[Valar] were drawn nigh, listening to Lrin’s song; but he heeded them not, gazing upon the Tree.
Lo, its new leaves were crusted.... Then said Lrin for the joy of his heart: SM-07 "Behold the Rose of Silpion", and that rose grew SM-08{till the fruit of Laurelin had been but little greater}, and ten thousand crystal petals.... being enamored of its loveliness SM-09{and lusting to see it grow mightier than the fruit of noon, more glorious than the Sun}.
Then snapped the withered .... and despite its hurts its glory and fragrance and pale {magic}[light] were very great indeed.
Now when Lrin had mastered his grief and ruth he spake the counsel that SM-10 {Ulmo's words had called to his heart: that } the {Gods}[Valar] build {another}[a] vessel {to match the galleon of the Sun,} "and it shall be made from the Rose of Silpion," said he{, "and in memory of the waxing and waning of these Trees for twelve hours shall the Sunship sail the heavens and leave Valinor, and for twelve shall Silpion's pale bark mount the skies, and there shall be rest for tired eyes and weary hearts."}
This then was the manner of the shaping ... in {Sirnumen}[Formenos], and with the aid of those Elves and of Varda of the stars, SM-11{who gave even of the light of those frail boats of hers to give limpid clearness to their fashioning,} he brought to being ... sparks caught in snow when {Nielluin}[Helluin] was shining.>
SM-EX-04 <LT Yet even so {Lorien}[Vna] {is}[was] not appeased, {not though}[and] the darkness of the mountains {creep}[crept] across the plain, and a mist {bloweth}[blew] in from off the sea and a vague and flitting twilight {gathers}[gathered] once more in Valinor, but long {he sits}[she sat] pondering why the spells of Yavanna wrought only upon {Laurelin}[Telperion].> <Moved from earlier: and still did Vna weep, and she twined her golden hair about the bole of Laurelin and her tears dropped softly at its roots; and even as the dew of her gentle love touched that tree, behold, a sudden pale gleam was born in those dark places. Then gazed Vna in wonder, and even where her first tears fell a shoot sprang from Laurelin, and it budded, and the buds were all of gold, and there came light therefrom like a ray of sunlight beneath a cloud.
Then {sped} Vna {little way out upon the plain, and she} lifted up her sweet voice with all her power {and it came trembling faintly to the gates of Valmar, and all the Valar heard. Then said Omar. "'Tis the voice of Vana's lamentation," but Salmar said: "Nay, listen more, for rather is there joy in that sound,"} and all that stood by hearkened, and the words they heard were I-cal'antulien, Light hath returned.
{Loud then was the murmur about the streets of Valmar, and folk sped thronging over the plain, and when they beheld Vana beneath the Tree and the new shoot of gold} Then suddenly did a song of very mighty.....
Then did all the folk gaze ....
One flower there was ....
Then said Yavanna ...
Loudly they murmured .... yielded of old, and the darkened eyes of the SM-12 {Vali}[Elves] were dazzled ...
Now the most ardent radiance ....
Then that the Ship of the Heavens .... that listeth for the airs.
{Then did the Gods name that ship, and they called her Sari which is the Sun, but the Elves Ur which is fire; but many other names does she bear in legend and in poesy. The Lamp of Vana is she named among the Gods in memory of Vana's tears and her sweet tresses that she gave; and the Gnomes call her Galmir the goldgleamer and Glorvent the ship of gold, and Braglorin the blazing vessel, and many a name beside; and her names among Men no man has counted them.}
Behold now it is ...Indeed is it not called Tanyasalp, the bowl of fire, even Fascalanmen, the Bath of the Setting Sun, for here when {Urwendi}[Arien] after ...
Now the making of this ....
Then said Manw, looking ....
But a great thought came into the heart of {Urwendi}[Arien], and she said that she was not adread, and begged leave to become the mistress of the Sun and to make herself ready for that office as Ilvatar set it in her heart to do. Then did she {bid a many of her maidens follow her}, even {of those} who had aforetime watered the roots of Laurelin with light, and casting aside {their}[her] raiment {they}[she] went down into that pool Fascalan as {bathers}[a bather] into the sea, and its golden foams went over {their bodies}[her body], and the {Gods}[Valar] saw {them}[her] not and were afraid. But after a while {they}[she] came again to the brazen shores and {were}[was] not as before, for {their bodies were}[her body was] grown lucent and shone as with an ardor within, and {light flashed from their limbs as they moved, nor might any raiment endure to cover their glorious bodies any more. Like air were they, and they trod as lightly as does sunlight on the earth, and saying no word they climbed upon the ship}[and she was as a naked flame], and that vessel heaved against its great cords and all the folk of Valinor might scarce restrain it.>
{Yet even as hope failed and her song faltered in the dark, lo! Telperion bore at last upon a leafless bough one great flower of silver, and Laurelin a single golden fruit. These Yavanna took, and the Trees then died, and their lifeless stems stand yet in Valinor, a memorial of vanished joy. But the fruit and flower Yavanna gave to Aul,} And Manw hallowed them, and [thus] Aul and his folk made vessels to hold them and preserve their radiance, as is said in Narsilion, the song of the Sun and Moon. ... hinder the deeds of {Melko}; for they remembered the SM-EX-05 <AAm
{Dark-elves}Quendi, the Avari that had remained by the waters of their awakening>, and did not utterly forsake the exiled {Gnomes}[Noldor]; and Manw knew that the hour of Men was drawing nigh.
SM-EX-06 <AAm 170 Indeed it is said that, even as the Valar made war upon {Melkor}[Morgoth on behalf of the Quendi, so now for that time they forbore on behalf of the {Hildi}[Hildor], the Aftercomers, younger Children of Eru. For grievous had been the hurts of Middle-earth in the war upon Utumno, and the Valar feared lest even worse should now befall; whereas the {Hildi}[Hildor] should be mortal, and weaker than the Quendi to withstand fear and tumult. Moreover it was not revealed to Manw where the beginning of Men should be, north, south, or east. Therefore the Valar sent forth light, but made strong the land of their dwelling.>
75. Isil the Sheen the {gods}[Vanyar] of old named the Moon SM-EX-07 <AAm , flower of Telperion,> in Valinor, and Anar Fire-golden <AAm , fruit of Laurelin,> they named the Sun; but the {Eldar}[Noldor] named them also Rna the wayward, the giver of visions, and {[Urin >] Naira, the heart of flame,}[Vsa] that awakens and consumes. For the Sun ... of the Moon was Tilion. {[Footnote: hyrned AE]} In the days of the Trees Arien had tended the golden flowers in the gardens of Vna and watered them with the radiant dew of Laurelin. Tilion was a young hunter of the company of Orom SM-EX-08 <AAm . He was a lover of silver,> and he had a silver bow <AAm and he begged to be given the task of tending ever the last Flower of Silver>. He loved Arien, but she was a holier spirit of greater power, and wished to be ever virgin and alone; SM-EX-09 <AAm and she was chosen because she had not feared the heats of Laurelin, and was unhurt by them, being from the beginning a spirit of fire, whom nonetheless {Melkor}[Morgoth] had not deceived nor drawn to his service. Fair indeed was Arien to behold, but too bright were her eyes for even the Eldar to look on, and leaving Valinor she forsook the form and raiment which, like the Valar, she had there worn, and she was as a naked flame, terrible in the fullness of her splendor[;]> and Tilion pursued her in vain. Tilion forsook then the woods of Orom, and dwelt in the gardens of Lrin, sitting in dream beside the pools of Est in Telperion’s flickering beams.
76. Isil was first ... Morgoth were amazed SM-EX-10 <AAm but the Dark-elves looked up with delight>; and it is told ...
77. Now Varda purposed ...
78. Varda commanded ...
79. Still therefore ... Moreover, all save Tulkas for a while were in doubt, fearing the might and cunning of Morgoth.
SM-EX-11 <AAm 179 But Morgoth hated the new lights and was for a while confounded by this unlooked-for stroke of the Valar. Then ...
180 But seeing the ... save only at the {Kalakiryan}[Calacirya] wherein still stood SM-13{forsaken} the green ... ; for the armories of the Valar were opened, and the Maiar {and the Sons of the Valar} were arrayed as for war.> SM-14 But the Eldar were set to guard that pass unceasingly: rebuilt with Oss’s aid, the fleet of the Teleri kept the shore, the remnant of the {Gnomes}[Noldor] dwelt ever in the deep cleft of the mountains. <Neither bird nor beast nor Elf nor Man, nor any other creature beside that dwelt in Middle-earth, could pass that leaguer.>
181 And in that time also, ... the mightiest mariner of song.>
SM-EX-12 <LT Now when Manw gazing in sorrow from high Taniquetil saw all these things done he sent for Lrin and for Orom, thinking ...
But the gloomy seas ....
Such then {said Vaire, '} was and still is the manner of Olr Mall ...
Then calling loudly that Manw ....
Then by the {magic}[power] of its making ...
And of this work of Orom’s came ... and the {fairies}[Elves] call it {Ilweran}[Ilmeran?] the Bridge of Heaven.
Now living Men may ... was theirs and still is.>
SM-EX-01: This section contains a whole council that is not present elsewhere, and i insert it here as it seems to fit this part of the narrative best.
SM-EX-02: This insert allows Manwe to learn about the arrival of the Noldor in Beleriand and the location of Melkor, and since this is simply referenced in later versions, it is good to see it in full.
SM-01: This passage I have removed because Angband exists in this version. In addition, the name Qerkaringa is not given elsewhere, and as its updated form in later Quenya would be Quercaringa i gave that here hesitantly. If it is deemed too unsure it is best to be dropped.
SM-EX-03: This insert provides the fullest account of the growth of the Sun and Moon from the trees, and although in later versions there is no mention of Vana or Lorien having any part in it, I have tried to word it so that Yavanna and Nienna still sing and water the mould with tears, and that the songs of Lorien and Vana only give it the extra oomph, so to speak. In my opinion, the passage in the QS doesn't eliminate the possibility of their involvement, as it is shortened simply due to compression, but that is, I suppose, a matter for debate.
SM-02: Urwendi is the old maiden with a similar function to Arien, so I changed it here and subsequently. In addition, I changed Kulullin to Culullin, because the general change of K to C in Quenya of the LotR.
SM-03: This part about the rekindling of the trees depends on the second prophecy of Mandos, so i marked it to make sure it is to be kept.
SM-04: This i removed because they had sat at the feet of the Valar in council during the debate of Finwe and Miriel.
SM-05: The two starmakings of Varda later gained distinction in type and time, so I removed the reference to both being done with silver light of the tree.
SM-05.2: I apologize, I noticed this late, and thus it has an awkward number. I removed this bit because Varda's stars have a different conception in later myth, and to have them described feels sketchy in terms of canonicity.
SM-EX-03: The LT is simply the fullest extent of the account.
SM-06: because of the bit I removed, the previous reference to the phials is gone, so I edit the text to include an introduction for them. Following this, I moved the bits about Lorien and Telperion and the Moon from their place as second to first, since that is the order in the later mythos.
SM-07: I kept the name Silpion bc in Of Valinor and the Two Trees it is said to be the name Lorien gave it.
SM-08: In this version the Sun isnt made yet
SM-09: same as the last one
SM-10: same as the last one. Ulmo's words have been lost bc of the order of the Sun and Moon.
SM-11: In keeping with 05.2 I removed this
SM-EX-04: Switching up Vana and Lorien to make it work, and moving the earlier bit forward about the Sun.
SM-12: As the Valar are basically angels, I doubt they would be blinded.
SM-EX-05: adding a nice detail from the Annals
SM-EX-06: this reason for the Valar not going to war is only given in AAm, so I add it in here.
SM-EX-07: extra descriptors from AAm
SM-EX-08: adding from AAm about Tilion
SM-EX-09: adding from AAm about Arien
SM-EX-10: adding a detail from AAm
SM-EX-11: Adding in the story of Melkor's assault on Tilion, which is found nowhere else.
SM-14: This is the only detail of the QS account that is not in AAm
SM-EX-12: These sections of the Hiding of Valinor are not mentioned again, but nothing is said to contradict them either. If we deem them to be unfit for inclusion I understand, but I figured I would add them in.

This Chapter was much more difficult than the last two, but I think I have gathered all the relevant passages into the text.

Last edited by ArcusCalion; 09-02-2017 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 09-03-2017, 07:04 AM   #2
Findegil
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I appritiate your work and wante to know you that I have read it, so not yet analysed in detail.

Only oe remarke at once about your editing to be usefully for the next draft: When you skip paragraphs or passages, it would be much easier if you would still give here a few words at the start and the end of the skiped passage.

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Old 09-04-2017, 04:22 PM   #3
ArcusCalion
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I gave the first words of every paragraph, but I apologize for neglecting to include the last.
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Old 09-23-2017, 04:31 PM   #4
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Okay, lets try to give some feedback on this chapter. I agree that this chapter is more difficult than many others. For some time I thought about skipping all that was done and start all over again with AAm as basis text. I have reinstalled all the changes that we had to do from QS too LQ without editing marker. I will not discuss these, but in my point of view we have to document these. But their all enough other additions I had propose. Now to the changes in detail. To all changes which I dont comment on (there are a few left, even so it is nearly beyond belief seeing then length of this post), I agree:

SM-01: The change you propose is very radical. I would try to hold more of the text and just adapt it to the later storyline:
Quote:
SM-EX-02 <LT Suddenly there {is}was a sound of wings in that place, for {Sorontur}[Sorontar] King of Eagles {is}was come again on strong wings through the dusk, and behold alighting on the boughs of darkened {Silpion}[Telperion] he {tells}told how {Melko}[Morgoth] {is}was now broken into the world and many evil spirits {are}were gathered to him: but, quoth he, methinks never more will {Utumna}[Utumno] open unto him, and already is he busy making himself new dwellings in that region of the North where stand the Iron Mountains very high and terrible to seeSM-01<editorial addition , where of old his fortress Angband had been>. Yet O Manw Lord of the Air, other tidings have I also for thy ear, for lo!
SM-01.5: In the farther message of Sorontar we have to change some to all. Because in all later sources it is recorded that Fanor set the fleet to fire not drift it away.

SM-01.6: Why did you stop there? The saying of the Elves and Men about the burning of boats cold also be taken:
Quote:
... that the {Noldoli}[Noldor] were gone forever and their ships burned or abandoned, and {Melko}[Morgoth] too was in the world SM-01.6{, and the hunt of no avail}; and belike it is in memory of those deeds that it has ever been a saying in the mouths of Elves and Men that those burn their boats who put all hope from them of change of mind or counsel.>
74 When the {Gods}[Valar] learned that the Noldor had fled,
{Qerkaringa}[Quercaringa]: Agreed.

SM-01.7, SM-02.1 to SM-02.7; SM-03.5; SM-04.1 and SM-05.1: Cullulin and Silindrin must be dry, otherwise Yavanna would not need the Silmarills to rekindle the trees. And with that also the useless watering of the trees and so forth.
Quote:
Only the light of the stars remained SM-01.7{, save where a glow lay about the fountain of Kulullin playing still or a pale gleam lingered nigh deep Telimpe, vat of dreams. Yet even these were dimmed and tarnished, for the Trees bore dew no more for their replenishment}.
Wherefore {does}did Vna arise and seek Lrin, and with them {go}went SM-02 {Urwendi}[ri] and Silmo and many of both {Vali}[Maiar] and the Elves; SM-02.1{and they gather much light of gold and silver in great vessels and fare}[fared] sadly to the ruined Trees. There {singeth}sang Lrin most wistful songs of {magic and }enchantment about the stock of {Silpion}[Telperion] SM-02.2{, and he bid water his roots with the radiance of Telimpe; and this was lavishly done, albeit small store thereof remained now in the dwellings of the Gods}. In like manner {doth}did Vna, and she {sings}sang old golden songs of the happier days, and {bids}bid her maidens dance their bright dances even such as they were used to dance upon the sward of the rosegardens nigh {Kulullin}[Culullin] SM-02.3{, and as they danced she flooded the roots of Laurelin with streams from out her golden jars}.
Yet all their singing and enchantment {is}was of little worth, SM-02.4{ and though the roots of the Trees seem to drink all that they may pour,} yet {can}could they see no stir of life renewed nor faintest gleam of light; nor withered leaf {glows}glowed with sap nor blossom {lifts}lifted its drooping stem. SM-02.5{Indeed in the frenzy of their grief they had poured out all the last remaining stores of brightness that the Gods retained, had not of}Of a fortune Manw and Aul come upon them in that hour, being drawn thither by their singing in the gloom, and stayed them, saying: Lo, O Vna, and thou O Lrin, what is this rashness? And wherefore did ye not first take counsel of your brethren? SM-02.6{ For know ye not that that which ye spill unthinking upon the earth is become more precious than all the things the world contains; and when it is gone perchance not all the wisdom of the Gods may get us more.}
Then Vna said: Pardon, O Manw Slimo, and let my sorrow and my tears be my excuse; SM-02.7{yet aforetime did this draught fail never to refresh the heart of Laurelin, and she bare ever in return a fruit of light more plentiful than we gave; }and methought the {Gods}[Valar] sat darkly in their halls and for the weight of their grief essayed no remedy of their ills. But behold now have Lrin and I put forth our spells and naught may they avail, and Vna wept.


Then did Manw call together all the folk of Valinor once more; and that great throng was gathered even in Vna's bower amidst her roses, where {Kulullin's}[Culullins] fountains SM-03.5{were}had once been, for the plain without lay now all cold and dark.


Then told he them concerning those stores of radiance they still possessed; for of silver light they had no great store save only that SM-04.1{that yet lay in Telimpe, and a lesser }measure that Aul had in basins in his smithy. SM-04.2{Some indeed had the Eldar lovingly saved in tiny vessels as it flowed and wasted in the soils about the stricken bole, but it was little enough.}
Now the smallness of their store of white light was due to many causes,

Yet even of this golden radiance was there no SM-05.1{unfailing} source, now that Laurelin dripped her sweet dew no more. SM-05.2 <moved from aboveSome indeed had the Eldar lovingly saved SM-05.2<editorial addition< of both lights> in tiny vessels SM-05.3{as it flowed and wasted in the soils about the stricken bole}, but it was little enough.>< SM-EX-03.5 <LT Behold, said Manw, this is now the third essay of the {Gods}[Valar] to bring light into dark places, and both the Lamps of the North and South, and the Trees of the plain, {Melko}[Morgoth] hath brought to ruin. SM-05.3{Now in the air only hath Melko no power for ill, wherefore}Wherefore it is my rede that we build a great vessel brimming with SM-05.4{golden }light and the hoarded dews SM-05.5{of Laurelin}, and this do set afloat like a mighty ship high above the dark realms of the Earth.
SM-04.2, SM-05.2, SM-05.25 & SM-05.3: I used this for the store of the jewel-smith of the Noldor. We need at least a tiny bit for the phials that Yavanna held and used in here trial to heal the Trees.

SM-03: The Magic Sun does not go. I think we should change that to Enchanted Sun.

SM-05.3: Melkor attacked at least Tilion. So this must go.

SM-05.4 & SM-05.5: I would not specify gold or silver.

Lo, O Tuivna, and ye beside of the {Vali}[Valar?/Maiar?] and of the Elves, : I think it is people of the Valar here that covers the old meaning best.

SM-EX-03.5: This was only marked by moved from later: which in my opinion is not that clear.
Quote:
Now was the time of faintest hope and darkness most profound fallen on Valinor that was ever yet; and still did {Vana}[Lrin] weep, {and she twined her golden hair about the bole of Laurelin and her tears dropped softly at its roots;}> SM-EX-03.5 <LT and he touched the wound in the bole of the Tree.
SM-09: I think we should use a bit more here.
Quote:
Now Lrin would suffer none to draw near, and this will he rue forever: for the branch upon which the Rose hung yielded all its sap and withered, nor even yet would he suffer that blossom to be plucked gently down, being enamored of its loveliness and lusting to see it grow mightier SM-09{than the fruit of noon, more glorious than the Sun}.
Then snapped the withered bough and the Rose of Silpion fell,
SM-11.5: Again a case were light from Telimpe was used:
Quote:
Of virin now he built a marvelous vessel, and often have men spoken of the Ship of the Moon, yet is it scarce like to any bark that sailed on sea or air. Rather was it like an island of pure glass, albeit not very great, and tiny lakes there were bordered with snowy flowers that shone, for the water of those pools that gave them sap was the radiance of SM-11.5{Telimpe}[the last Rose of Teleperion]. Midmost of that shimmering isle was wrought a cup of that crystalline stuff that Aul made and therein the magic Rose was set,
SM-EX-04.2: This was only marked by moved from ealier: which in my opinion is not that clear.
Quote:
SM-EX-04 <LT Yet {even so }{Lorien}[Vna] {is}was not appeased, {not though}[and] the darkness of the mountains {creep}crept across the plain, and a mist {bloweth}blew in from off the sea and a vague and flitting twilight {gathers}[gathered] once more in Valinor, but long {he sits}she sat pondering why the spells of Yavanna wrought only upon {Laurelin}[Telperion].> SM-EX-04.2<LT and still did Vna weep, and she twined her golden hair about the bole of Laurelin and her tears dropped softly at its roots;
SM-12.5: Again a case were light from Culullin is used:
Quote:
Then that the Ship of the Heavens might be made ready unto the last, the unfading petals of the latest flower of Laurelin were gathered like a star at her prow, and tassels and streamers of glancing light were hung about her bulwarks, and a flash of lightning was caught in her mast to be a pennant; but all that vessel was filled to the brim with the blazing radiance of gold SM-12.5{Kulullin and mingled therein drops }of the juices of the fruit of noon, and these were very hot, and thereafter scarcely might the bosom of the Earth withhold her, and she leapt at her cords like a captive bird that listeth for the airs.
When we come back to our basis text, the transition is not very smooth. I think we have to do that better:
Quote:
And Manw hallowed {them}the two vessels, and SM-EX-04.4<editorial addition thus> Aul and his folk had made vessels to hold them and preserve their radiance, as is said in SM-EX-04.5 <AAm the Narsilion,> the song of the Sun and Moon. These vessels the {Gods}[Valar] gave to Varda, that they might become lamps of heaven, outshining the ancient stars SM-EX-04.6 <AAm , being nearer to Arda>; and she gave them power to traverse the region of the stars,
SM-EX-04.4: The thus was already in the original draft, I only added the past perfect had.
SM-EX-04.5: In the draft this change was not marked.
SM-EX-04.6: Same here.

A source that was not used in the original draft is Myths Transformed. But I think there are passages that should be used:
Quote:
75 Isil the Sheen the {{Gods}<LQgods>}[Vanyar] of old named the Moon SM-EX-07 <AAm , flower of Telperion,> in Valinor, and {Urin the Fiery}<LQ Anar Fire-golden> SM-EX-07.2 <AAm , fruit of Laurelin,> they named the Sun; but the {Eldar}[Noldor] named them <LQ also> Rna the wayward, the giver of visions, and SM-EX-07.4 {{Anar}<LQ[Urin >] Naira>, the heart of flame,}<AAm Vsa> that awakens and consumes. For the Sun was set as a sign for the awakening of Men and the waning of the Elves; but the Moon cherishes their memory. SM-EX-07.5<MT; 2
Now the Sun was designed to be the heart of Arda, and the Valar purposed that it should give light to all that Realm, unceasingly and without wearying or diminution, and that from its light the world should receive health and life and growth. Therefore Varda set there the most ardent and beautiful of all those spirits that had entered with her into E, and she was named {Ār(i),[Footnote to the text: An s is pencilled over the r of Ar(i).]}ri and Varda gave to her keeping a portion of the gift of Ilvatar so that the Sun should endure and be blessed and give blessing. The Sun, the loremasters tell us, was in that beginning named s (which is as near as it can be interpreted Warmth, to which are joined Light and Solace), and that the spirit therefore was called Āzi{?} (or later {Āri?}ri).> The {maiden}[youth] {from among their own folk by the Valar}<LQ whom the Valar chose from among the Maiar> to {guide the ship of the Sun was named Arien; and the youth who steered}sterr the floating island of the Moon was Tilion. {[Footnote to the text: hyrned AE]} In the days of the Trees {Arien[Footnote to the text: Daegbore]}[ri] had tended the golden flowers in the gardens of Vna and watered them with the radiant dew of Laurelin. Tilion was a young hunter of the company of Orom SM-EX-08 <AAm . He was a lover of silver,> and he had a silver bow SM-EX-08.5<AAm and he begged to be given the task of tending ever the last Flower of Silver>. He loved {Arien}[ri],
SM-EX-07.2, SM-EX-07.4 & SM-EX-08.5: All three were already in the first draft, I only added this the markers.

SM-EX-07.5: Here begins the Addition from MT. We used already the gift of Eru to Varda. Therefore it should be included here as well.

SM-EX-10.2 to SM-EX-10.97:As said at the start of this post, I think that AAm would probably have been the better basis text. Therefore now follow some changes that bring the text of LQ nearer to AAm:
Quote:
But Tilion was wayward and uncertain in speed, and held not to his appointed course; and at times he sought to tarry {Arien}[ri], whom he loved, though the flame of Anar withered the sheen of Telperion's bloom, if he drew too nigh, and his vessel was scorched and darkened. Because of SM-EX-10.2 <[/b]AAm[/b] the waywardness of >Tilion, therefore, and yet more because of the prayers of Lrin and {Ninna}<LQ Est>, who said that all night and sleep and peace SM-EX-10.3 <[/b]AAm[/b] and rest >had been banished from the earth, SM-EX-10.4 <[/b]AAm[/b] and the stars were hidden,> Varda changed her {design}<LQ counsel>, and allowed a time wherein the world should still have shadow and half-light. SM-EX-10.5{The Sun}<[/b]AAm[/b] Anar> {rests}<LQ rested>, therefore, a while in Valinor, lying upon the cool bosom of the Outer Sea. So Evening, which is the time of the descent and resting of the Sun, {is}<LQ was> the hour of greatest light and joy in Valinor. But soon the Sun {is}<LQ was> drawn down into {Vaiya}[Ekkaia] by the servants of Ulmo, and SM-EX-10.6{brought in haste}<[/b]AAm[/b] went then in haste under the Earth, and came so unseen> to the East, and {mounts}<LQ mounted> the sky again, lest night be overlong and evil strengthened. But the waters of SM-EX-10.7{Vaiya}}<[/b]AAm[/b] the Outer Sea> {are}<LQ were> made hot and {glow}<LQ glowed> with colored fires, and Valinor {has}<LQ had> light for a while after the passing of {Arien}[ri]; yet as she {goes}<LQ went> under the earth and {draws}<LQ drew> towards the East the glow {fades}<LQ faded> and Valinor {is}<LQ was> dim, and the {Gods}[Valar] {mourn}<LQ mourned> then most for the death of Laurelin. At dawn the shadows of their Mountains of Defense {lie}<LQ lay> heavy on the land of the Valar.
Quote:
[The Wood at the Worlds End; Artist; no. 60; p. 63]
The Wood at the World's End
78 Varda commanded the Moon to SM-EX-10.8{rise only after the Sun had left heaven, but he {travels}<LQ traveled> with uncertain pace, and still {pursueth}<LQ pursued> her, so that at times they both {are}<LQ were> in the sky together, and still at times he {draws}<LQ drew> nigh to her, and there {is}<LQ was> a darkness amid the day.}<[/b]AAm[/b] to journey in like manner, and passing under Earth to arise in the East, but only after the Sun had descended from heaven. But Tilion went with uncertain pace, as yet he goes, and was still drawn towards Arien, as he shall ever be; so that oft both may be seen above the Earth together, or at times it will chance that he comes so nigh that his shadow cuts off her brightness, and there is a darkness amid the day.
177 Therefore by the coming and going of Anar the Valar reckoned the days thereafter until the Change of the World.> But Tilion {tarries}<LQ tarried> seldom in Valinor, loving rather the great lands; and mostly he {passes}<LQ passed> swiftly over the western land, either {Arvalin}[Avathar] or {{Eruman}<LQ Aruman>}[Araman] or Valinor, and {plunges}<LQ plunged> into the chasm SM-EX-10.9{between the shores of the earth and}<[/b]AAm[/b] beyond> the Outer Sea, and {pursues}<LQ pursued> his way alone among the grots at the roots of the earth. SM-EX-10.95{There sometimes he {wandrers}<LQ wandered> long}<[/b]AAm[/b] There he would oft wander long, and late would return >, and stars that had taken hiding there {flee}<LQ fled> before him into the upper air. Yet it {happens}<LQ happened> at times that he came above Valinor while the Sun {is}<LQ was> still there, and he descended and {meets}<LQ met> his beloved, for they left their vessels for a space; then there is great joy, and Valinor {is}<LQ was> filled with silver and gold, and the {Gods}[Valar] {laugh}<LQ laughed> recalling the mingling of the light long ago, when Laurelin flowered and Telperion was in bud.
79 Still therefore SM-EX-10.97<[/b]AAm[/b] , after the Long Night,> the light of Valinor {is}<LQ was> greater and fairer than upon Middle-earth, because the Sun {resteth}<LQ rested> there, and the lights of heaven {draw}<LQ drew> nearer to the land in that region; moreover, the Valar {store}<LQ stored> the radiance of the Sun in many vessels, and in vats and pools for their comfort in times of dark.
After that passage I added the next snippet from MT:
Quote:
SM-EX-11 <AAm 179 But Morgoth hated the new lights and was for a while confounded by this unlooked-for stroke of the Valar.> SM-EX-11.1 <MT; 2 But Melkor, as hath been told, lusted after all light, desiring it jealously for his own. Moreover he soon perceived that in s there was a light that had been concealed from him, and which had a power of which he had not thought. Therefore, afire at once with desire and anger, he went to s{ [written above: Asa]}, and he spoke to ri, saying: 'I have chosen thee, and thou shalt be my spouse, even as Varda is to Manw, and together we shall wield all splendour and mastery. Then the kingship of Arda shall be mine in deed as in right, and thou shalt be the partner of my glory.'
But ri rejected Melkor and rebuked him, saying: 'Speak not of right, which thou hast long forgotten. Neither for thee nor by thee alone was E made; and thou shalt not be King of Arda. Beware therefore; for there is in the heart of s a light in which thou hast no part, and a fire which will not serve thee. Put not out thy hand to it. For though thy potency may destroy it, it will burn thee and thy brightness will be made dark.'
Melkor did not heed her warning, but cried in his wrath: 'The gift which is withheld I take!' and he ravished ri, desiring both to abase her and to take into himself her powers. Then the spirit of ri went up like a flame of anguish and wrath, and departed for ever from Arda;[Footnote to the text: {[marginal note] }Indeed some say that it was released from E.] and the Sun was bereft of the Light of Varda, and was stained by the assault of Melkor. SM-EX-11.15{ And being for a long while without rule it flamed with excessive heat or grew too cool, so that grievous hurt was done to Arda and the fashioning of the world was marred and delayed, until with long toil the Valar made a new order.[Footnote to the text: [marginal note] Also some of the Wise have said that the ordering of Arda, as to the placing and courses of its parts, was disarrayed by Melkor, so that the Earth was at times drawn too near to the Sun, and at others went too far off.]} But even as ri foretold, Melkor was burned and his brightness darkened, and he gave no more light, but light pained him exceedingly and he hated it.> SM-EX-11.2<LT; The End of the Tales {Telimektar and Ingil pursue him, and they remain now in the sky to ward it, and Melko stalks high above the air seeking ever to do a hurt to the Sun and Moon and stars (eclipses, meteors). He is continually frustrated, but on his first attempt - saying that the Gods stole his fire for its making - he upset the Sun, so that Urwendi fell into the Sea, and the Ship fell near the ground, scorching regions of the Earth.} The clarity of the Sun's radiance has not been so great since, and something of {magic}[entchantment] has gone from it. Hence it is, and long has been, that the {fairies}[Elves] dance and sing more sweetly and can the better be seen by the light of the Moon - because of the death of {Urwendi}[ri]. The 'Rekindling of the {Magic}[Entchanted] Sun' refers in part to the Trees and in part to {Urwendi}[ri].
{Fionwe}[Eonw]'s {rage}/was anraged/ and {grief.}[griefed] SM-EX-11.25<LT; The Tale of the Sun and the Moon , for he had concieved a great love for that bright maiden long ago, and her loveliness{ now}, when bathed in fire she sate as the radient mistress of the Sun, set him aflame with the eagerness of the {Gods}[Valar].> In the end he will slay {Melko}[Morogth].>
SM-EX-11.3 <MT; 2 Outline But Melkor gathered in the Void spirits of cold SM-EX-11.32{&c.} and<AAm shadow> and suddenly assailed {it}the Moon, b]SM-EX-11.34[/b] <AAm and there was strife in Ilmen beneath the paths of the stars, >driving out the {Vala}[Maiar] Tilion. The Moon was thereafter {long}[a] while steerless and vagrant and called Rna{ (neuter)} SM-EX-11.36 <LQ the wayward>.>
{But}Therefore the light is not the light which came from the Trees before the poisoned lips of {Ungoliant}[Ungoliant] touched them. That light lives now only in the SilmarilsSM-EX-11.37<AAm and they are lost> {. Gods and Elves, therefore, look forward yet to a time when the Elder Sun and Moon, which are the Trees, may be rekindled}<LQ ; though there shall yet come a time, maybe, when they are found again and their fire released, and the ancient joy and glory return. Ulmo foretold to the Valar that this would only come to pass through the aid, frail though it might seem, of the second race of earth, the Younger Children of Ilvatar. But Manw alone heeded his words at that time; for the Valar were still wroth because of the ingratitude of the Noldor, and the cruel slaying at the Haven of the Swans. Moreover, all save Tulkas for a while were in doubt, fearing the might and cunning of Morgoth. {Therefore at this time they fortified all Valinor anew, and set a sleepless watch upon the mountain-walls, which now they raised, east, north, and south, to sheer and dreadful height. Their outer sides were dark and smooth, without ledge or foothold for aught save birds, and fell in precipices with faces hard as glass; their tops were crowned with ice. No pass led through them save only at the Kalakilya wherein stood the mound of Kor. This they could not close because of the Eldar who were faithful; for all those of Elvish race must breathe at whiles the outer air of Middle-earth, nor could they wholly sunder the Teleri from their kin.}
SM-EX-11.4 <AAm But SM-EX-11.42{Arien}[s] Morgoth feared with a great fear, and dared not to come nigh her, having indeed no longer the power. For as he grew in malice, and sent forth from himself the evil that he conceived in lies and creatures of wickedness, his power passed into them and was dispersed, and he himself became ever more earth-bound, unwilling to issue from his dark strongholds. With shadow therefore he hid himself and his servants from SM-EX-11.44{Arien}[s], the glance of SM-EX-11.46{whose eyes}[which] they could not long endure, and the lands nigh his dwelling were shrouded in fumes and great clouds.>
SM-EX-11.5 <MT; 2 When {they}the Valar perceived that Melkor would now turn darkness and night to his purposes, as he had aforetime sought to wield flame, they were grieved; for it was a part of their design that there should be change and alteration upon Earth, and neither day perpetual nor night without end.[footnote to the text: For it is indeed of the nature of E and the Great History that naught may stay unchanged in time, and things which do so, or appear to do so, or endeavour to remain so, become a weariness, and are loved no longer (or are at best unheeded).] For by Night the Children of Arda should know Day, and perceive and love Light; and yet Night should also in its kind be good and blessed, being a time of repose, and of inward thought; and a vision also of things high and fair that are beyond Arda, but are veiled by the splendour of Anar. But Melkor would make it a time of peril unseen, of fear without form, an uneasy vigil; or a haunted dream, leading through despair to the shadow of Death.>
SM-EX-11.6 <MT; 2 Outline The Sun remained a Lonely Fire, polluted by Melkor, but after the death of the Two Trees}Then Tilion returned to the Moon, which remained therefore an enemy of Melkor and his servants and creatures of night and so[u] was[/b] beloved of Elves later{ &c}.>SM-EX-11.7 <AAm {Then he assailed Tilion, sending spirits of shadow against him, and there was strife in Ilmen beneath the paths of the stars, and}[u]And so[/b] Tilion was the victor: as he ever yet hath been, though still the pursuing darkness overtakes him at whiles.>
SM-EX-11.8<AAm 180 But seeing the assault upon SM-EX-11.85<ri and> Tilion the Valar were in doubt,
SM-EX-11.1: The assault on ri was denied in AAM and LQ, but MT is the later text. The problem is that in MT the attack is much earlier when Melkor is not so much sunk to the Morgoth state. But is he already so much down, that he cannot ravish a Maiar? I dont think so.

SM-EX-11.15: This explanations for desserts and cold times, must go. They clearly belong to a round earth version.

SM-EX-11.2: We have used the references to the magic sun already, so here with ri gone we have the reason why the sun has lost the magic.

SM-EX-11.25: ri seems to have been a hot girl! Already in LT she had tow guys loving here (with out hope).

SM-EX-11.3, SM-EX-11.32, SM-EX-11.34 and SM-EX-11.36: The Assult on Tilion is here combined from MT and AAm. The change back to the basis text brings in here the loss of ri and Tilion from Sun and Moon as additional reason for the lesser light in Valinor.

SM-EX-11.37: Again a case were I bring the text nearer to AAm.

SM-EX-11.38: His has to come later.

SM-EX-11.4: That Morogth feared the light of the sun after the encounter with ri is told in MT and here in AAm the reasons are given.

SM-EX-11.42, SM-EX-11.44 and SM-EX-11.46: After the encounter with ri Morgoth and his servants have to fear the Sun (s) and not Arien.

SM-EX-11.5: We had inserted this earlier when Melkor destroyed the Lamps but here it fits much better.

SM-EX-11.6 & SM-EX-11.7: The time that Tilion left the Moon is much short then it was planed in MT, but that does fit our flat earth version very well, since LQ and AAm say that Tilion was the victor: as he ever yet hath been.

SM-EX-11.8: Back to AAm, but since that is not our basis text I added this marker.

SM-EX-11.85: I added the assault on ri because it had even the greater effect.

Quote:
Therefore in the {Kalakiryan}[Calacirya] they set strong towers and many sentinels; and at its issue upon the plains of Valimar a host was encamped; for the armories of the Valar were opened, and the Maiar {and the Sons of the Valar} were arrayed as for war.> SM-14 But the Eldar were set to guard that pass unceasingly: <LQ rebuilt with Osss aid, >the fleet of the Teleri kept the shore, the remnant of the {Gnomes}[Noldor] dwelt ever in the deep cleft of the mountains{, and upon the plain of Valmar, where the pass issues into Valinor, the Lindar were camped as sentinels, that no bird nor beast nor Elf nor Man, nor any creature beside that came from Middle-earth could pass the leaguer. SM-EX-11.9<AAm Neither bird nor beast nor Elf nor Man, nor any other creature beside that dwelt in Middle-earth, could pass that leaguer.>
80 In that time, which songs call the Hiding of Valinor, the Enchanted Isles were set, and filled with shadows and bewilderment, and all the seas about were filled with shadows; and these isles were strung across the Shadowy Seas from north to south before Tol Eressea, the Lonely Isle, is reached, sailing west; and hardly might any vessel come between them in the gloom or win through to the Bay of {Elvenhome}<LQ Eldanor>. For a great weariness comes upon mariners in that region, and a loathing of the sea; but all such as set foot upon those islands are there entrapped and wound in everlasting sleep. Thus it was that the many emissaries of the Gnomes in after days never came to Valinor - save one, the mightiest mariner of song}SM-EX-11.95<AAm 181 And in that time also, which songs call Nurtal Valinreva, the Hiding of Valinor, the Enchanted Isles were set, and all the seas about them were filled with shadows and bewilderment; and these isles were strung as a net in the Shadowy Seas from north unto south, before Tol Eressa, the Lonely Isle, is reached by one sailing west. Hardly might any vessel pass between them: for in the dangerous sounds the waves sighed forever upon dark rocks shrouded in mist. And in the twilight a great weariness came upon mariners and a loathing of the Sea; but all that ever set foot upon the islands were there entrapped, and slept until the Change of the World. Thus it was that, as Mandos foretold to them in Araman, the Blessed Realm was shut against the Noldor, and of the many messengers that in after-days they sent into the West none came ever to Valinor - save one only: the mightiest mariner of song> or tale.
SM-EX-12 <LT Now when Manw gazing in sorrow from high Taniquetil
SM-EX-11.9 and SM-EX-11.95: If LQ is our basis text we have to show were the passages from that text have gone. And I took the last words up again into our text.

Puh, that was a long analyses and a long post. But as we both have found, this seems to be a more difficult chapter then it seems at first glance.

Respecfully
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Old 09-25-2017, 01:14 PM   #5
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Any changes that I do not respond to are ones to which I agree.

SM-01.7, SM-02.1 to SM-02.7; SM-03.5; SM-04.1 and SM-05.1: I agree with you that these must go, but then a new problem arises: why are Kullulin and Silindrin empty? Ungoliant is never said to have drained them, and they are included in earlier chapters. Therefore they must be removed entirely (which I am loath to do) or we must insert an editorial passage (perhaps a significant one) into the Darkening of Valinor chapter in which she drains them.

SM-EX-07.5<MT; 2: Saying the Sun was meant to be the heart of Arda refers to Arda as the Solar System, and is explicitly round earth, and is denied later on when it is said that the sun is drawn under the earth by the servants of Ulmo. This passage could perhaps be used in the Ambarkanta in Volume III, when describing the Cataclysm and the World Made Round.

SM-EX-10.8: Arien > ri missed.

SM-EX-10.9: Why the change? in every diagram and description, the Chasm was between the land and the Outer Sea, and even Christopher Tolkien remarks about the confusion of the placement of the Outer Sea. The only clear layout we are given has the chasm btween the land and the sea, and so I would say we keep the original wording.

SM-EX-11.1: Should this be used? this idea of an assault on the Sun is from the earliest iteration of the mythology, and was abandoned in all subsequent versions, only in one being replaced with an assault on the moon. Then in the radical round earth version, it is returned, along with an attack on the moon. Even if it is the latest text on the matter, it is sourced from a radical change which we have rejected, and thus I wonder if it is to be kept. In addition, it is said that Morgoth does not leave Angband except to corrupt men and to fight Fingolfin.

If, however, it is kept, here are my comments.

SM-EX-11.2: "- because of the death of {Urwendi}[ri]." the word "death" here should be changed to "departure".

SM-EX-11.25: Eonwe cannot be said to kill Morgoth, as it is said in our version of the Prophecy of Mandos that he only stands with Turin, but that Turin kills him. perhaps it can be changed to: "In the end he will {kill}[stand against] {Melko}[Morgoth].>"

SM-EX-11.3: Morgoth cannot gather spirits out of the Void, bc he does not leave Angband as i said above. Maybe stick with the AAm wording.

SM-EX-11.34: The insert from AAm should be placed after the conclusion of the MT sentence. The current arrangement is not good grammar.

SM-EX-11.4: after "dared not come nigh her" I would add "again".

SM-EX-11.7: The whole attack on Tilion being changed feels odd with this transition. Being chased out of the Moon would not make you the victor, even if you returned. I would stick with the AAm version rather than the MT version.

Everything else I agree with. This is certainly a very difficult chapter, but after this and DoV are done, I think the stickiest ones are behind us. Most of the Beleriand chapters are very straightforward, and need only minor changes.
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Old 09-26-2017, 01:49 PM   #6
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Kullulin and Silindrin: I agree that we have to do something about these in DoV, with the effect that Ungoliant has drained these sources of light. Since DoV anyhow needs an revision, we could simply keep that in mind, and care for it later. But here is my first go at it:
Quote:
58d It is told that even as Fanor and Fingolfin stood before Manw, ... And still {Ungoliant}[Ungoliant] thirsted; and she went to the great Wells of VardaDoV-DV-11<editorial addition even to Cullulin and Silindirn> and drained them<editorial addition all> dry. And as she drank, she belched forth vast vapours, and in their midst she swelled to a shape more huge and hideous than even her most lustful dream had hoped ever to achieve. At last, knowing that the time was short, she hastened away, north, to the tryst that Melkor had made with her, and did not mean to keep.
SM-EX-07.5: It is true that heart of Arda in the round earth concept has a special meaning, but that does not make it unusable in the flat earth version, at least in my opinion. I would let it stand. Anyhow it is meant figuratively.

SM-EX-10.9: Well AAm is the later text, that was my reason to use it. But I can see your reason and agree to restore the reading of LQ on the basis that this might be a proposed change that we cannot incoperate because we lake the needed information.

SM-EX-11.1: For me the fact that this attack on the Sun does reappear in such a late version, is rather an argument to include it. Tolkien never abandoned the idea that the sun was less enchanted then the Moon and therefore times of moonshine were rather the times for the Elves than the day of full sunshine. In the intermediate interations of the mythology Tolkien brings up some rather week arguments why this should be the case. Thus the re-established attack on and subsequent absent of ri comes in handy.
About Morogth it is told that he leaves Angband only once; we are neither told for what reason nor for how long. The rest is read into the passage implicit, by our knowledge of the story about Mens corruption. Anyhow I would think that both corruption of Men and the ravishing ri were connected in time. And we learn in the Tale of Adanel that Morogth was not all the time present at the dwelling place of Men. So he could have the opportunity. (By the way, the fight of Fingolfin against Morgoth is directly before the gate of Angband. Since Fingolfin hammered on that door. I would assume from the latest description of the Nirnaeth that Angabnd had a kind of outwork and that the fight happen inside that outer fortification and with that could be said inside Angband, so that for this occasion Morgoth literary had not to leave Angband.)

SM-EX-11.2: For a (forced) departure from E the word death is very appropriate as we learn in MT when it speaks about the execution of Morgoth after the War of Wrath.

SM-EX-11.25: Well, if this could only refer to the Last Battle I would agree that it contradicts the Second prophesy, but it could in this case refer to the time after the War of Wrath and Morgoth execution as it is told in MT, were no executioner is explicitly named.

SM-EX-11.3: Even without leaving Angband he could gather spirits out of the void. As we are told in sanwe-kenta communication of thought is not restricted by space. And we can be sure that early allies of Melkor lingering in the void would still listen to his call.

SM-EX-11.34: I agree that the grammar is not good. But either the insert from AAm has to go here or we would leave it out. If placed later, it is rendered seens less being out of sequence. What about this:
Quote:
SM-EX-11.3 <MT; 2 Outline But Melkor gathered in the Void spirits of cold SM-EX-11.32{&c.} and<AAm shadow> and suddenly assailed {it}the Moon, b]SM-EX-11.34[/b] <AAm and there was strife in Ilmen beneath the paths of the stars> {driving}And the attack drove out the {Vala}[Maiar] Tilion. The Moon was thereafter {long}[a] while steerless and vagrant and called Rna{ (neuter)} SM-EX-11.36 <LQ the wayward>.>
SM-EX-11.4: For what reason that again is needed? I agree that it might make the stlye better, but that has so far never been an argument.

SM-EX-11.7: A lost battle does make you the loser of a war. In the end Tilion was victorious capturing back the Moon and prevailing in the farther defence of it.

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Old 09-26-2017, 05:35 PM   #7
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SM-EX-11.1: I agree on this now. Part of my reason for arguing against it is bc i was attached to the published and longstanding myth i suppose.

SM-EX-11.2, 11.25: I think that in these cases, we must be careful using the word "death" about the Valar and Maiar. There is a point made that the Valar do not kill Melkor because he cannot be killed, being divine and immortal. therefore, to refer to the death of Arie in the text without any attention being brought to it seems to be to be entirely inccorect. Similarly, Melkor was not killed after the War of Wrath, he was thrust into the Voids of Ea, as we have in our version of the Tale of Earendil.

SM-EX-11.3, 11.34: I agree, but it is "Maia" not "Maiar" when used in the singular.

SM-EX-11.4: I added it in with consideration of the added bit about the attack on Arie, but if you feel it is simply stylistic, then I understand.

SM-EX-11.7: the way it is written he simply comes back, there is no "recapturing the moon." The two accounts do not reconcile well. In addition, there is in this version no pursuing darkness, yes?
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Old 09-27-2017, 11:31 AM   #8
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SM-EX-11.2 & SM-EX-11.25: Okay, we change this as you suggested to:
Quote:
... The clarity of the Sun's radiance has not been so great since, and something of {magic}[entchantment] has gone from it. Hence it is, and long has been, that the {fairies}[Elves] dance and sing more sweetly and can the better be seen by the light of the Moon - because of the SM-EX-11.23{death}[departure] of {Urwendi}[ri]. The 'Rekindling of the {Magic}[Entchanted] Sun' refers in part to the Trees and in part to {Urwendi}[ri].
{Fionwe}[Enw]'s {rage}/was anraged/ and {grief.}[griefed] SM-EX-11.25<LT; The Tale of the Sun and the Moon , for he had concieved a great love for that bright maiden long ago, and her loveliness{ now}, when bathed in fire she sate as the radient mistress of the Sun, set him aflame with the eagerness of the {Gods}[Valar].> In the end he will SM-EX-11.28{slay}[stand against] {Melko}[Morogth].>
SM-EX-11.4: Yes, I think the again is not really necessary and therefore rather stylistic.

SM-EX-11.7: No, I did not remove though still the pursuing darkness overtakes him at whiles. Therefore in the text a fight to recapture the Moon is implicit in the text. Okay we are dealing with an outline. Therefore it would be possible to make this for the sake of clarity a bit more explicit. But do you think that is necessary?

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Old 09-27-2017, 05:11 PM   #9
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SM-EX-11.7: I would think it is, as the recapturing is not implied (it seems to me) and instead feels like two very different accounts being mushed together. I know we do not change for reasons of style, but in this case the attempted narrative is not clear (at least when I read it).
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:19 PM   #10
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SM-EX-11.7: Okay, how do you find this:
Quote:
But Melkor would make it a time of peril unseen, of fear without form, an uneasy vigil; or a haunted dream, leading through despair to the shadow of Death.>
SM-EX-11.6 <MT; 2 Outline The Sun remained a Lonely Fire, polluted by Melkor, but after the death of the Two Trees}Then Tilion returned to the Moon, SM-EX-11.65 /and drove of the/ SM-EX-11.7 <AAm {Then he assailed Tilion, sending} spirits of shadow that Morogth had send against him{, and there was strife in Ilmen beneath the paths of the stars, and}[u]. And so[/b] Tilion was the victor: as he ever yet hath been, though still the pursuing darkness overtakes him at whiles.> {which}[u]The Moon[/b] remained therefore an enemy of Melkor and his servants and creatures of night and so[u] was[/b] beloved of Elves later{ &c}.>
SM-EX-11.8<AAm 180 But seeing the assault upon SM-EX-11.85<ri and> Tilion the Valar were in doubt,
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Old 09-28-2017, 07:54 PM   #11
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This is perfect.
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:10 PM   #12
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A few additions froum LT found while working on my draft for The Flight of the Noldor:

Quote:
… Thus they held vigil in the night of Valinor, and their thought passed back beyond E and forth to the End; yet neither power nor wisdom assuaged their grief, and the knowing of evil in the hour of its being. SM-EX-01.1 <LT Now came that grievous news to the {Gods}[Valar] and the other Elves, and at first none believed. Nonetheless the tidings came still unto them, and by many different messengers. Some were of the SM-EX-01.2 Teleri, who had heard the speech of Feanor in the square of {Kor}[Tirion] and had seen the {Noldoli}[Noldor] SM-EX-01.3 prepair to depart thence with all the goods they might convey.> {Neither}Now did {they}Valar mourn more for the death of the Trees than for the marring of Fanor: of all Melkor’s works the most wicked.
Quote:
… Thus, even as Eru spoke to us, shall beauty not before conceived be brought into E, and evil yet be good to have been.'
'And yet remain evil,' quoth Mandos. 'To me shall Fanor come soon.'>
SM-EX-01.4 <LT {others}Other messengers were of the {Solosimpi}[Teleri], and these brought the dire tidings of the swanships' rape and the dread kinslaughter of the Haven, and the blood that lay on the white shores of {Alqalunte}[Aqualond].
Lastly came some hotfoot from Mandos who had gazed upon that sad throng nigh the strands of {Amnor}[Araman], and the {Gods}[Valar] knew that the {Gnomes}[Noldor] were far abroad, and Varda and all the Elves wept, for now seemed the darkness black indeed and that more than the outward light of the fair Trees was slain.>
SM-EX-01.5 <LT Ulmo alone came not to the Trees, but went down to the beach of Eldamar, and there he stood gazing into the gloom far out to sea, and he called often with his most mighty voice as though he would draw back those truants to the bosom of the {Gods}[Valar], and whiles he played deep longing music on his {magic}[enchanted] conches, and to him alone, lest it be Varda lady of the stars, was the going of the {Gnomes}[Noldor] a greater grief than even the ruin of the Trees. Aforetime had Ulmo loved the {Solosimpi}[Teleri] very dearly, yet when he heard of their slaughter by the {Gnomes}[Noldor] he grieved indeed but anger hardened not his
heart, for Ulmo was foreknowing more than all the {Gods}[Valar], even than great Manw, and perchance he saw many of the things that should spring from that flight and the dread pains of the unhappy {Noldoli}[Noldor] in the world, and the anguish wherewith they would expiate the blood of {Kopas}[Aqualond], and he would that it need not be.>
SM-EX-01.6 <LT Strange is to tell that albeit Aule had loved the {Noldoli}[Noldor] above all the Elves and had taught them all they knew and given them great stores of wealth, now was his heart most turned against them, for he deemed them ingrate in that they had bidden him no farewell, and for their ill deeds among the {Solosimpi}[Teleri] he was grieved to the heart. "Speak not," said he, "the name of the {Noldoli}[Noldor] ever again unto me," and albeit he gave still his love to those few faithful {Gnomes}[Noldor] who remained still SM-EX-01.7{ about his halls}, yet did he name them thereafter "Eldar".
But the {Teleri}[Vanyar] and the {Solosimpi}[Teleri] having wept at first, when the onslaught of the Haven became known to all dried their tears and horror and anguish held their hearts, and they too spake seldom of the {Noldoli}[Noldor], save sadly or in whispers behind closed doors; and those few of the {Noldoli}[Noldor] that remained behind were named the Aulenosse or kindred of Aule, or were taken into the other kindreds, and the {Gnome-folk}[Noldor] {have}had no SM-EX-01.8{place or }name remaining now in all Valinor.> SM-EX-02 <LT Suddenly there {is}was a sound of wings in that place, for {Sorontur}[Sorontar] King of Eagles {is}was come again on strong wings through the dusk, …
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:57 PM   #13
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I actually do not agree with the messengers from the Teleri and from Mandos. In the FoN chapter, Manwe sends heralds to Feanor before he departs, and at this point even the Doom of the Noldor has been spoke. Thus, the Valar already knew that the Noldor had departed, but not that they had come into Middle-earth. This is why I only added the Sorontar bit. In addition, I disagree with the bits about the Noldor being absorbed into other kindreds. It is contradicted in the Hiding of Valinor bit where it says that the remainder of the Noldor held the pass of the Calacirya, and in the War of Wrath when it says the Noldor of Valinor marched under the banner of Finarfin. The other bits about Ulmo and Aule are good, however.

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Old 10-06-2017, 02:08 PM   #14
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ArcusCalion worte:
Quote:
In the FoN chapter, Manwe sends heralds to Feanor before he departs, and at this point even the Doom of the Noldor has been spoke...
That is why I introduced change SM-EX-01.3. Therefore these messengers from the Teleri trigger Manw to send his herald. And at this point the doom of the Noldor was not jet spoken, because the over next gives Manw's reaction to the answere Feanor gave to the Herald of Manw at the departure from Tirion. See the bit of 'deeds to live in song forever'.

As the chapter stands, it always was a jump back in time and to a diffrent place of 'action'.

So the next message to reach the Valar is the kinslaying. And then the messenger from Mandos.

ArcusCalion worte:
Quote:
I disagree with the bits about the Noldor being absorbed into other kindreds.
I do not see the contradiction. The key word is 'or' between the renaming to Aulenosse and the taken into the other kindreds. That means that the Aulenosse remain folk and can by us as Valinor external scribs be named Noldor and used in the role of watchers in the Calacirya.

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Old 10-06-2017, 05:11 PM   #15
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I see I was wrong about the first, but the second set of messengers is still problematic, as there is no mention made of the giving of the Doom of Mandos.S Should we just accept that as a problem with the time-jump? In addition, if we accept the second, then we must change all further references of the Noldor in Valinor to "Aulenosse." Also, where would Finarfin's group fit under this?
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