Discussion--Dragons: Good or Evil?

[Brimstone Goldenwing]

We all know what dragons are. They are those fire breathing, winged creatures that are usually pictured as evil beings that are seen guarding thier hoards of gold and young maidens as hostage. But what do YOU think of dragons?

I think that dragons are truely amazing creatures..and I think that they are one of the most powerful monsters that roam the fantasy world. They can be good or evil..in fact, I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep in mind that I am "open minded". So if you hate dragons, thats just fine with me..

So whats YOUR opinion on dragons?

(jeez..I hope this is the right forum to post this in..)

[Mayla Took]

Ha ha! I think it is the perfect fourm. Don't worry about that kinda stuff, no one really cares (at least I don't). Anyway, dragons have always kinda freaked me out! They just seem (to me) to have a sneaky personality. Very cunning. That is alittle bit trouble some.

[Ahanarion]

In Tolkien's Middle-Earth all the dragons are evil because the were bred by Morgoth the original dark lord. They originally didn't have wings. The winged dragons were first seen in the War of Wrath. I like the idea of good dragons but they simply can't exist in Tolkien's world.

[Brimstone Goldenwing]

Yeah I guess your right..in Tolkien's World there can't be good dragons, but thats like most of the fantasys out there. I find "good" dragons more interesting then evil ones, but like again thats an opinion [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Have you ever read the book "Dealing with Dragons"? I looooooove that book! It's great..well not as good as Talkien's novels of course [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Rosa Underhill]

Hey Brimstone, have you read the sequels to "Dealing With Dragons"? They're not quite as good, but it's a great way to continue the story.

Really, it depends on the writer. There are no good dragons in Middle-earth, for example. Anne McCaffrey *grumble* has good dragons, (they're all a bit dim witted, though, and way oversexed, just like their humans [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] ). There are also some good dragons in this book I bought on Friday "The Dark Lord of Derkholm" (and there's a dwarf named Galdriel! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]).

I think all dragons in the real world, though, are quite wicked. Like Frank Peretti's dragon. *shiver* They, sadly but most likely, are demons or something of the like.

The dragons in my stories are like people: some are good by nature, some bad by nature, some can be turned from good to bad and vice versa and some are just jerks. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Gorin Icearms]

I think dragons can have personalities just like people. Take Chrysophylax for example. Sure he was greedy, sneaky (sorta), and self-centered, but he didn't seem all that evil.

And the dragon in the movie Dragonheart was a nice one. But that's outside the Tolkien realm.

[Brimstone Goldenwing]

Good point you got there. When most people write stories, they make it that dragons are evil. Well yeah [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] And yes I have read the sequel to Deal with Dragons..I've all of them but the last one [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

When I make a story, I also make it do dragons can be good or evil. Well..I don't write stories, I DRAW them. My stories are anime-style comics. In fact alot of my comics are fantasy related. I have about 2 comic series. I've only written the story out tho..cause I think I need to practice my art before I start drawing the real thing [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Firladion Greenbow]

I cannot quite believe that a dragon is born evil, it may begin to hate over the years because of rough treatment from those around.
But once they turn, watch out!
They also seem very intelligent until they are riled, then it is always best to take cover.

F.G.

[Rosa Underhill]

For me, there is an acception to the "born evil" rule: wyverns. They're just hatched nasty! (These are my wyverns, though.) They routinely crush all the other eggs in their clutch, are cunning and powerhungry, destroy because they feel like it, and serve the Destroyer. Their father is Thead (Death). Oh, and all of my multi-headed dragons are slimeballs. They get really nasty when they have more than one head for some reason.

Here are the cheif dragon types (European) for those who want to know:

Heraldic- four legs, tail, a pair of wings (Tolkien's dragons are all heraldics as was Draco from "Dragonheart" and most story dragons)

Wyvern- two legs, tail, a pair of wings (said to have a bad attitude, no matter what; I believe Scarlet may have been a wyvern but I can't be sure and I'm not reading "Wizard's First Rule" again to find out! *shudder*)

Amphitere- no legs, tail, a pair of wings (these aren't in many stories yet; just wait 'till my friend gets her book published, though, then you'll see more of them!)

Guivre- two legs, tail, no wings (I have yet to see any of these in any story save mine)

Lindworm- no legs, tail, no wings (they like water; haven't seen them in any story but my own)

There are five different kinds of Chinesse dragons too, but I don't remember what they were. All I remember is that you could tell where an eastern dragon was from by the number of its toes. (Either China, Japan or Korea.) Got this all from a dragon book at the library some years ago. I'd like to find it again, it was very cool. Had the story of Beowulf's death and everything in it!

[Brimstone Goldenwing]

Hey you do know all your dragons [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] But wasn't linderworm called wyrm? Or was linderworm a sea serpent? I can't remember..

There are also other types like hydra, sea serpent,amphisbaena and the ouroboross..yet I never seen the two in movies before. But those the strangest looking dragons [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Brimstone Goldenwing ]

[Maikadilwen]

A lindworm or lind-orm as it's called in danish (orm = worm/small snake), is very common in the nordic mythology. (You must've heard about Valhalla?). The lindworm was a huge snake or snakelike creature. It would spew poison from it's mouth and it's blood was poisonous as well.

I think dragons are some of the most beautiful creatures ever. Personally I prefer the blue, red and black. I know these colours normally represents evil dragons (esp. the black), but they may be controlled.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

[Rosa Underhill]

Worm, or wyrm, is a common term that includes almost all types of dragon. I think it's an insulting term, or was until recently. I can't quite imagine that a drake or dragoness would be happy is someone called him/her "wyrm". (None of mine like being called lizrds, either.)

Well, I personally would be scared to death of any dragon. But, If I had to do something involving dragons I might I don't know depended on the mission, we hobbits are not great adventurers. Heck me going on 3 is amazing enough, which is why I'd probably go. As for dragons I feel they could be good or bad but I'd never stick around long enough to find out unless I already knew.

[Ahanarion]

You forgot about basilisks you know the 5 or 6' foot tall lizards that can turn you to stone if you look in it's eyes. Supposedly they come from hatching a chicken egg under a frog. Some good books where the dragons can be good or bad are in the Lost Years of Merlin saga.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Ahanarion ]

[Brimstone Goldenwing]

Ah, how can I forget the basilisk? Those are really neat! I draw them all the time! ::hits her head:: How can I forget about that?!

In school, those ignorent students always see me drawing a basilisk..and when I say it's one they say I copied Harry Potter!!!!!! Grrrr..they are sooooooooo stupid! [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Brimstone Goldenwing ]

[Rosa Underhill]

Technically, basilisks, most sea serpents and hydras are not dragons. I think one of the qualifiers for being a dragon is breathing fire, which basilisks, most sea serpents and hydras cannot do.

[Brimstone Goldenwing]

I think that sea serpents are dragons..thats my opinion anyway. Ever since man has been sailing on boats, sea serpents have been in history. They were shown on maps early in European history, where unknown territory was marked "HERE BE DRAGONS".

Well thats an opinion..there's also myths that nagas are dragons..but really, I do not see how thats true. How can a snake with a human-like face be a dragon? I think it's stupid, really.

[cheeto]

I love dragons,I love the Hearts Blood trilogy,and Dealing with Dragons,I think even if dragons are good,they would have to have a reason to be nice or pay attention to you,otherwise they'd probly either ignore or eat you
an evil dragon would exclusively hunt people,steal,and destroy things out of either greed or out of hand revenge
I want to get a tattoo of a blue and purple western dragon on my back someday,I even have a model for it

I love dragons too. they're interesting beasts...I have always heard them to have a bad wrap for being evil and honestly, if one ever showed up real life? I'd be scared... but like in Dragoon the dragons are not evil and many other places ....but I think, just like any other species, there were good and bad....heh....

I think dragons can be both good and evil. Personally i like dragons and think they are one of the most interesting fantasy world creatures. As someone else said to, I think dragons take on characteristics of people. It depends on the dragon. I would hope to see more good dragons, instead of them almost always being portrayed as evil.

[Nazgûl Queen]

<center><font color="red">HEY!!!!!! Don't insult wizards first rule - I love that book! Although nowhere near as much as tolkien...

Anyway, I really love dragons. They are beautiful, intelligent and self-assured. They are extremely strong and have a love of fine things.
However, this often leads to being greedy and cunning, though very few dragons are pure evil.
I believe that dragons can be good or bad depending on their environment, parents, human influence etc, like all creatures.
They are always unfairly discriminated against, but there are more bad humans than bad dragons....
And they are probably all thought of as evil because the good ones would stay away from humans while only the bad ones would get in humanity's way and force them to kill them.

Do my insane ramblings make sense? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Rosa Underhill]

HEY!!!!!! Don't insult wizards first rule - I love that book!

Heh, sorry Nazgul Queen. I just can't abide doing that to people, even if they are fictional. At least, he didn't need to describe it all. *shudder* Those Mord Sith are horrid!

Y'know, now that I think on it, it depends on one's notion of evil. I think the worst dragon would be quite the flatterer; his words would be sweet as honey, he'd do anything for you while decieving you and luring you into doing whatever he plans to do with you. (Hey, sounds like a certain infamous fallen angel I know of; he's been described as a dragon, too.)

I'd rather meet Chrysophylax or Smaug over a dragon like that anyday; at least those two are relatively honest with their dealings with men (and hobbits). They say they're going to eat you and they do, barring any unforseen complications.

[Narya]

I´ve allways imagened dragons (that are not evil) as wise and most powerful creatures, that watch the world and try to keep a balance between good and evil. Or like guardians of fate.
I like dragons very much, too. I think they are most mysterious and great fantasy- creatures.
there are bad dragons in most fantasy stories, i think this is because they are so powerful. But powerful evil creatures are not all that dragons can be. Maybe there are many dragons that use there power to protect others.

[Luineeldaiel]

Greetings, Dragon Lovers! Just thought you might like to know that dragons are not just members of the world of fantasy. They really existed! Check out Job, Chapter 41, esp., vs. 12 and following in the Bible. I was elated to read this as I trust you will be. There can be no doubt! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[Maikadilwen]

Indeed they did. We just call them Dinosaurs!!!!! I tell people that all the time and they just look at me like I'm crazy. But the word "dinosaur" only means "great lizard" and isn't that what some dragons look like?

[Morai]

I think that there are good dragons as well as bad. Anyone ever read the Dragon Chronicles? In that series there are mostly good, but impatient & cranky ones. I also like the authors (Forgot her name.) idea that Dragons can speak telepathecly.
Me and my Friend are kinda writing a movie (we put it in script form cause we're to lazy to put it in book structure) That's a sequel to Lord of the Rings. We combine both ideas into one story.

[Morquesse]

Actually Maikadilwen, Dinosaur means "Terrible Lizard" [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
Greetings, Everyone! Like most people here, I'm a dragon lover, too! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

And Luineeldaiel, there's somewhere else to in the Bible that also mentions dragons,as soon as I find it, I'll list it here. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I also like the authors (Forgot her name.) idea that Dragons can speak telepathecly.

That does sound very appropiate, like perhaps for evil dragons, in my oppinion.

I personaly prefer evil dragons to good ones, I think. Though I like the idea of trying to turn a Seaserpent from evil to good, and succeed. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
See ya,
~M

[ May 11, 2002: Message edited by: Morquesse ]

Usually dragons are shown all mean and nasty and greedy. I, personally, think dragons are some of the coolest monsters ever. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

As for Tolkiens dragons, i guess everyone kind of assumes their evil. I mean, when they were controlled by Morgoth they were way evil and they were created to be evil.

The dark jewels of Morgoth's genius were the Great Worms called dragons.....
Their intelligence was renown but they had the flaws of vanity, gluttony, deciet and wrath

Sounds kind of like humans to me.

I guess when they were controlled they couldn't help being evil. And afterwards, they were just really, really greedy. Take Smaug, for example. The lake people ****ed him off, so he had every right to attack!!! He was just acting on greed.

[Maikadilwen]

Yup, and besides, Morgoth made the dragons evil. Why should they suddenly turn good after he was gone? They had never learned what it was to be good, and they did fine (sort of) the way they were, so why bother to change?

[ May 12, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

[Morai]

eh, ya never know.

[Guo Si]

Yes, but Morgoth also made the orcs, and not all of them are evil (I forget where, but two orcs are talking about just running away and living a peaceful life).

[The Half-Hobbit]

I grew up on Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders series..so I'm inclind to think of dragons as good first, then remember the evil ones. I have to say, dragons do evil very well...an evil dragon radiates coolness. Good dragons have the advantage of not eating you, though. Flying on a dragon used to be one of my favorite daydreams (these days I tramp around Middle Earth more often.
I love dragons. Maybe my other half is dragon. Hmmmm hobbit/dragon cross? Might be interesting....might be freaky [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

[Maikadilwen]

Hmm, interesting look you must have. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Or maybe the hobbit genes only control the size, so you're actually a Pocketdragon. I've always wanted to have a cute little Pocketdragon. Perhaps you???? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I promise I'll take good care of you. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[The Half-Hobbit]

Sounds fantas-great! Can I pop out at unexpected moments and scare people and singe their eyebrows?

[Morai]

Hey! *whines like a 3 year old* I want a pockett Dragon, they're perfect for getting revenge on annoying Home Ec teachers.
*Grins Evilly*

[Luineeldaiel]

Thanks, Morquesse, I'll look forward to your post on another biblical reference! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ESTEN]

It really all depends on how you look at them. The dragons that most people think of are medievl dragons, that brun down towns, eat young woman and hoard gold, but a different look at them is in asian culture (which has been around longer) Dragons are signs of water and/or air, brought good luck and were well respected, non of this trying to kill them. I love dragons, have them all over my roon and several tattoos of the on me, I think that they are one of the best creatures around
[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[The Half-Hobbit]

Don't worry, Morai, there's enough of me to go around! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
I have a dragon tattoo too...it was my first, I want another but can't decide what to get. Something in elvish might be cool.
Does anyone here get Dancing Dragon catalog? Lots and lots of choice dragon merchandise.

[Morai]

*goes off to lake to scheme ideas for pockett dragon pranks*

[Susan Delgado]

I have read the Pern books and find the domestication of her dragons distasteful. They're just beasts of burden...

There's a good (as in effective) dragon in Barbara Hambly's Dragonsbane. I haven't read the sequels, so I don't know if she turned Morkeleb into something less effective, but in that one he was wise and wild and fallible.

I cannot believe no one has mentioned Earthsea! Le Guin has never written a bad word in her life, but her dragons there are exceptional. The closest thing that world has to higher beings.

These dragons are all sentient, though, For interesting dragons that are mainly wild animals, Melanie Rawn has written Dragon Prince, which is interesting, too, though the sequels were less so.

As for whether I think dragons are good or evil? Well, I'd have to say it depends on whose mind they come out of. In real life, of course, they are closest to Rawn's animals, but that's the nice thing about fantasy; you can do whatever you want and (within certain rather broad rules) you can't be wrong, because it's all a matter of opinion.