Ruin of Doriath - Final Part

[Findegil]

RD-EX-77.5:
I am okay with "for" -> "since"

§51d:
The symetrie of the warnings is a good argument which I did not consider. we will skip the cruse by the blood stain. But your editing does skip the comma which I think is grammatically needed:

§51d (§331) ... But {Gwendelin}[Melian] told of the dragon's ban upon the gold {and the [? staining] of blood in the king's halls}, ‘and yet another and more potent curse, whose arising I know not, is woven therewith,’ said she, ‘nor methinks was the labour of the Dwarves free from spells of the most enduring malice.’ ...

Respectfully
Findegil

[Findegil]

When we made the addition from [bRos[/b] and the Shibboleth we missed a footnote, which I think should be taken:

§316 (§43a) TN Now the Dwarfroad to Nogrod and Belegost in the Blue Mountains passed through East Beleriand and the woods about the {River Gelion}[Duin Daer], where aforetime were the hunting grounds of {Damrod and Diriel}[Amrod], {sons}son of Fëanor. To the south of those lands between the {river Gelion}[Duin Daer] and the mountains lay the land of Ossiriand, watered by seven streams, {Gelion}[Duin Daer], Ascar, Thalos, Legolin, Brilthor, Duilwen, Adurant. There lived and wandered still in peace and bliss Beren and Lúthien, in that time of respite which Lúthien had won, ere both should die; and their folk were the Green Elves of the South, who were not of the Elves of {Cor}[Tirion], nor of Doriath, though many had fought at the [First] Battle of {Unnumbered Tears}[Beleriand].> But Beren went no more to war, and his land was filled with loveliness and a wealth of flowers; and while Beren was and Lúthien remained Elves called it oft {Gwenh-i-cuina }[Dor Firn-i-Guinar], the Land of the Dead that Live RD-EX-66 <Sil77 ; and their son Dior Eluchíl had to wife Nimloth, kinswoman of Celeborn, prince of Doriath, who was wedded to the Lady Galadriel;><Shibboloth and beside one great waterfall , called in Sindarin Lanthir Lamath ('waterfall of echoing voices'), Dior had his house.><Ros Dior{ their son}, it is said, spoke both tongues: his father's <editorial addition , the Bëorian of Dorthonion>, and his mother's, the Sindarin of Doritah. For he said: 'I am the first of the Pereðil (Half-elven); but I am also the heir of King Elwë, the Eluchíl.' He gave to his elder son the name Eluréd, that is said to have the same sigificance, but ended in the Bëorian word rêda 'heir'; to his second son he gave the name Elurín[footnote: ‘Remembrance of Elu’: containing Sindarin rín from Common Eldarin rēnē < base REN ‘recall, have in mind’.], but his daugther the name Elwing For she was born on a clear night of stars, the light of which glittered in the spray of the waterfall by which his house was built. The word wing was Bëorian, meaning fine rain or the spray from fountains and waterfalls blown by a wind; but he joined this to Elvish el- 'star' rather than to the Bëorian, because it was more beautiful, and also went with the names of her brothers: the name Elwë (Sindarin Elu) was believed to be and probably was drived from el 'star'.> RD-EX-67 <TN {and Auredhir was}And [Eluréd and Elurín ]were most like to {his}their forefather Beren, and all loved {him}them, yet none so dearly as did Dior; but Elwing the fairy have all poesies named as beautiful as Tinúviel if that indeed may be, yet hard is it to say seeing the great loveliness of the {elfin}[elven] folk of yore.>

Respectfully
Findegil

[Findegil]

RD-SL-27: Coming back to the discussion about where the battle toke place. There is one new information so it might be considered very thin. In his new book Beren and Lúthien Christopher Tolkien does not provide any new texts, but he gives some comments and some interisting editing. Normaly Christopher Tolkien does in this book not introduce changes to the texts, so that very old names like 'Tinwelint and Gwendeling' stand beside new once like 'Thingol and Melian'. But then we come to the last part of Berens story and the book, where his fight against Naugladur is described. Again old Names like 'Glómund' or 'Lamp of Faëry' for the Silmaril are allowed to stand. But on change in the course of the narrative is done, so not consequently. It starts with an editorial replacement (marked as such) in the first sentence:

Now came all that host [to the river Ascar], and their array was thus; ...

In the original LT text this reads:

Now came all that host to the banks of Aros, and their array was thus; ...

And in the LT the battle was at the ford over the River Aros that marked the southern boundary of Artanor. And in the rest of the extract from LT the name 'Aros' is allowed to stand.

What this showes, in my oppinion, is that for Christopher Tolkien the ford that was the palce of Berens last fight was that over the river Ascar and not that over Gelion/Duin Daer as we used it. If it changes something or not is up to the farther discussion of this case. But at least I think this is worth considering the case again.

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.: This is the only case that I could find in Beren and Lúthien that is worth mentioning for the project.

[ArcusCalion]

I would say that this is merely his opinion, as he presents no new information to back up that change, and he has been known to make mistakes of this kind before.

[Findegil]

No question that is only Christopher Tolkiens opinion. I never said otherwise. But in a case like this, where we long debated and did take the decision in the end based on the feeling of the participants of the discussion, Christopher’s opinion is at least worth notice.

Respectfully
Findegil