A Gift of Mortality?

[Durelin]

Though Valinor can most certainly be easily compared with Heaven, it is much less of a wonderful place, in my mind. Valinor is not actually a part of the Earth, but it still must be attached to it in some way, just as the Elves are. It is certainly not a reward for the Elves to go there, but more of recompense. It eases the punishment of not being able to die. To fully understand the purpose of Valinor, I think you must first understand why the Elves go there.

The Elves, as the Firstborn, are bound to the Earth. Unlike Men, Dwarves, and Hobbits, they do not die and leave the boundaries of the Earth. Still, endless years cannot all be spent on Earth, and so Valinor is a kind of heaven without death. In my mind, Valinor is an 'in-between' sort of place. It is a taste of heaven, yet within the boundaries of earthly dwelling.

I come to think that Tolkien has formed some huge irony here... The Elves believe they are a superior race to Men, and they feel that they are privileged as the Firstborn, perhaps closer to the Ainur in spirit, as their ancestors dwelt with them (and they will go to dwell with them when they die). And Men, as well as we, as readers, tend to feel so, as well. But, the fact is, Men have it the best. The Elves are immortal, bound to the Earth until its End, and if they die, they must dwell with the Ainur, and most likely are still connected to the Earth. Perhaps they even must aid the Aninur in the world's 'care taking', I guess. Also, there spirits are later reborn - they must go back to living an earthly life.

With the Earth full of evil and sadness, wouldn't anyone wish to have the fate of Men? Wouldn't anyone wish for their spirits to go beyond the Circles of the World to freedom?

So Valinor is not open to mortals because they have no need of experiencing this paradise. They will experience, I guess, the ultimate paradise in death. And what is so special about Valinor is that it is an escape from earthliness, while still bound to the Earth.

-Durelin

[One of the Nine]

Now that I think about it, Men (the race) do have it better off. I mean, they live a short life, they die, and they go to "heaven." The elves however, are bound to the earth forever. Literally. Kind of an odd concept to grasp.

Although Valinor was only for the elves, three hobbits did dwell there. Two for a longer time and one for only a short while. So, maybe, Valinor is for all elves and all of those from other races who have troubled minds, or, like Frodo, troubled minds and an unhealing wound.

Something to think about?

[symestreem]

If this is so, then why did Tuor go to Valinor? Or did he go because he was counted as one of the elves?

[Son of Númenor]

Durelin, your essential premise that Valinor is a place of "recompense" which the Elves are permitted to stay in to make up for the "punishment" of being confined to the Circles of the World seems slightly misguided. Tolkien obviously did not feel that the Elves' immortality was entirely a blessing for their race, but it was certainly not a punishment.

The Elves represent, as it were, the artistic, aesthetic, and purely scientific aspects of the Humane nature raised to a higher level than is actually seen in Men. That is: they have a devoted love of the physical world, and a desire to observe and understand it for its own sake and as 'other' - sc. as a reality derived from God in the same degree as themselves - not as a material for use or as a power-platform.(Letters, 181)

The Elves loved & understood the earth as an individual creation of Ilúvatar, & their immense 'spiritual' bond with the natural world was derived from & nourished by their eternal confinement to Arda & Aman. Whereas Men were granted the gift to leave the confines of the world, & were (& are) subsequently less attached to it, Elves are benefactors & beneficiaries of the world on a much more spiritual plane.

The idea of uncertainty comes into play as well. Elves are bound to the earth from birth until the end of the world, & are all or mostly aware that they will eventually end up in the unending bliss of Valinor, wiser & more beautiful for having gone through the pain & suffering of the Long Defeat in Arda. Men, on the other hand, are granted the 'gift' to leave the world, but to a fate unknown, a "Hope without guarantees," as Tolkien described it. It may be true, as you suggest Durelin, that Men reach "the ultimate paradise in death," but then again it may not. Elves at least can be assured that they will spend their days in a land of peace. To say that "Valinor is not open to mortals because they have no need of experiencing this paradise" is, in my humble opinion, to miss the 'point' (a crude word, isn't it?): it isn't that they have no need, but simply that Valinor is not where their fate as a race ultimately lies. The argument could be reversed to say that Elves have no need to leave the confines of the world, for it is their lot to live in the unending paradise of Aman. 'Tis, if I may be so bold, like saying, "I haven't any need to see Paris, for I have been to Versailles." There is no 'need' to see either, and which is 'better' is merely a matter of taste.

I mean, they live a short life, they die, and they go to "heaven." The elves however, are bound to the earth forever.(One of the Nine)

As I said, it is uncertain whether Men actually go to some sort of "heaven" (the Halls of Ilúvatar) any sooner than the Elves (who do, after all, end up leaving Arda after the Last Battle & the end of the world). Whether it is a better destiny to be sundered from the world & head into an unknown fate or be bound to the world & live with a general knowledge of your fate is, I suppose, ultimately a matter of opinion. I personally would not necessarily prefer one to the other, but I do not think either can be objectively described as worse than the other, nor that Valinor is a measure of compensation for a "punishment" of the Elves by Ilúvatar.

why did Tuor go to Valinor? Or did he go because he was counted as one of the elves?(symestreem)

That is a pretty straightforward question with a pretty straightforward answer: yes, he was counted among the Firstborn:

But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men(Quenta Silmarillion, "Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin")

[Durelin]

Son of Numenor - First let me say - superbly stated, all of it.

Now, let me say: I was not trying to suggest that that was what Tolkien believed or was trying to express, as I know that what Tolkien believed is hard to apprehend, as he purposely made it so. Merely I was suggesting that the Elves', their immortality, and Valinor could be seen in a different light.

And also let me say: You brought to my attention something I did not think about: a love of the Earth. But I still believe it is a little odd that the Elves' would love the Earth so, and yet yearn for something more, beyond Middle Earth, and no longer actually a physical part of the Earth. Still, it would make sense that the Elves could not, no matter how much they loved the Earth, remain upon it (fully, I guess) forever.

I guess it could be said that Men are not able to escape Earthly bonds on Earth, as the Elves are. The Elves are bound to the Earth spiritually, as you said, and so can experience the beauties of the 'spiritual plane'? Men die and are gone from the Earth completely.

Now that all you said, Son of Numenor, has been brought to my attention, I see that the fact that Men leave the Circles of the World can end even their spirits themselves, breaking the bond that was once there between them and the Earth. Valinor and Aman, are much like Heaven, at least in the Christian belief of Heaven, as God cares too much about the Earth, in Christian theology, to let you get away from it completely.

A couple of things I wonder about: Do you think it is a love of the World and a wish to clense its beauty of the evil within it that makes the Elves desire to remain bound to the Earth? Or is the evil so easily overlooked?

Thank you for that insight, Son of Numenor, and for sharing your superior knowledge of Tolkien.

-Durelin

[lathspell]

Interesting thread, Durelin!

In your latter post you speak about the love the Elves for the Earth and that they yet have this yearning to leave for Valinor. I would like to point out that not nearly all of the Elves have this yearning and not nearly all of them went to Aman when their summons came. The greater part of the Elves staid where they were or turned aside from their path to Aman in during their journey. Those that did go to Valinor and saw it's splendour and the Trees were glad of heart to have come and to see such glory. But of all think they loved, off all things they loved in Aman or in Middle-earth, they loved the starlight most.
When they came Middle-earth it was all in battle with Morgoth and later with Sauron, there were only short periods of time (for Elves) that they had peace in Middle-earth, yet they still remembered the full bliss of Valinor, which would ever be now that they were no longer on the World and now that Morgoth was in the Void. But since they loved the Earth they only left at the last moment. Tolkien writes that the Elves leave Middle-earth when they get tired and wearisome of it, but I don't think that Tolkien ment tired and wearisome for their love of middle-earth, but for the marrings and troubles it had. When leaving they knew that in Valinor no such things occured now that Morgoth was no more.

In my mind, Valinor is an 'in-between' sort of place. It is a taste of heaven, yet within the boundaries of earthly dwelling.

Let's not forget that in the stories Tolkien wrote about Arda, and I speak mainly about the Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion, there was always battle and despair. Tolkien never fully describes Aman in full bliss as the Elves see it, the greater part is about the battles and the Silmarils. I do not think that Valinor should be thought of as a near-paradise region in Arda. Valinor in full bliss will be great indeed if the Elves are willing to leave Middle-earth for it.

And last I want to say that I fully agree with Son of Numenor about the fate of Men. It is unknown, and that's why most people dread death, but indeed hope their best hopes!

Greetings, hoping to have contributed,
lathspell

[Elianna]

My question is what's so great about the Gift of Men if Elves share in the same uncertain fate after the End?

[lathspell]

The gift of Men is great through the eyes of others, because they do not have trouble with the world after they died. The Elves either die and go to the Halls of Mandos and wait their till they get another time to live, but that takes a very long time. Elves who won't die will go to Valinor in the end, and live their for ages before they can do any other thing.
The gift is a gift because Men are no longer troubled with Arda and can just move on to fate unknown, as the Elves have to stay on Arda till the World's Ending.

[Mahal]

Elves, can also not move forward, in a sense, that they can't really create new things. E.g. the swanboats, of the elves, who were destroyed. They said the could never create something like that again(this is all imo).

Unlike Men, Dwarves, and Hobbits, they do not die and leave the boundaries of the Earth

Don't Dwarves get gathered, in the halls of Mandos to, by Aulë?

If anything sounds vague, it is because I need to read all the books again(im forgetting things like names and such ).

[Iris Alantiel]

I always thought one of the saddest things about the Elves' fate was that they had to watch the decaying of the splendour of the world and the passing of beautiful things that could not be created again. In that way I think that the race of Men has the better deal, because they do not have to see the withering and decay of what was once beautiful, nor can they remember better times.

Tolkien writes that the Elves leave Middle-earth when they get tired and wearisome of it, but I don't think that Tolkien ment tired and wearisome for their love of middle-earth, but for the marrings and troubles it had.

I think that's probably exactly what it was like for the Elves. Imagine building your home in the middle of a pristine forest alongside a beautiful sparkling lake, and then living long enough to see the air polluted, the trees cut down, and the water filled with toxic chemicals. Or imagine seeing a splendid castle newly built when you were young, and then over the years seeing it fall into decay and disrepair. That would probably be what it was like for the Elves to watch the decline of Middle Earth. It would be so sad to always have that memory of a better time and a more beautiful place, and to always have the knowledge that things now were worse than they had been before. Actually, that was kind of a feeling that I picked up repeatedly when I read Tolkien's Letters - the feeling that things had once been better, but Tolkien himself was living in a declining world. Really quite sad, but I suppose that's another topic for another day.

As for the passing of beautiful things that could not be created again, Mahal brought up the swanboats that were destroyed in The Silmarillion . The Silmarils and the Two Trees of Valinor are more examples of things that, once lost, could never be recreated. Think how painful it would be to live for thousands of years with the memory of such beauty and the knowledge that it had passed out of existence forever.

[lathspell]

Don't Dwarves get gathered, in the halls of Mandos to, by Aulë?

This is not known for certain, but it is the Dwarves' believe that when they die Aulë has asked Mandos to set them apart from the Elves in another Hall. But is this is so, is never said, so there fate is as unknown as that of Men.