Elrond the vampire

[lindil]

<BR>I hate to be always on the attack w/ these movies , but I get so much ammunition !<br> <br> I bought an Entertainment Weekly , to check out tj epics [my c'puter does poorly w/ the movie sites graphics] and what is on the cover? <br> a pointy -eared sword weilding arwen.<br> <br> but wait there is more.on p.38 we get some viscious looking orcs [look like they were modelled after evil relatives of the Iceman . [more pointy ears, seems PJ has not read HoME re: non-elvish origin}<br> <br> Gandalf looks positively wooden [and arthritic] at the council of elrond[?] the elves? in the background look pretty good [eventhough they seem to be modelled after Qui-Gon <br> <br> PJ is lounging by a hobbit hole door that gandalf would have to crawl through [seriously]<br> <br> and the finale-<br> Elrond looking like he is about to bite Arwen's neck in some transylvanian castle<br> -we also get to glims=pse the hitherto unknown elvish fondness for statuary that JRRT forgot to mention.<br> <br> All in all , I am afraid that while the ambiance of many scenes may be good , PJ is making a movie other than LotR<br> At least though w/ digital technology , he can remove all the pointy Elf ears .<br> <br> lindil<br> <br> <p>Lindil is often found on posting on the New Silmarillion Canon Forum at the Barrowdowns discussion board. 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[Orald]

<BR><br><br> You know, at first I thought pointy ears would be a good thing, I always thought of elves with pointed ears and without them it just oudln't be the same. But the ears look ridiculous I especially thought so on Legolas. I have therefore changed my opinion and believe that elves definately didn't have pointed ears(they look to stupid to have them) <p></p>

[Inziladun]

<BR><br><br> I increasingly fear that this will not be the LoTR we all know and love,changed beyond recognition in the remorseless <br> pursuit of money. Maybe at least the pronunciations will be correct,and we won't hear &quot;Sell-a born&quot; and &quot;Sirith Ungol&quot;. <p>Manwë keep you under the One, and send fair wind to your sails. </p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<BR><br><br> ... which really wouldn't bother me because I still pronounce them Sell-eborn and Seer-ith no matter how many times I try to remember the right way. Old habits die hard. <p>The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)<br> I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Orald]

<BR><br><br> what about Kirdan, it just sounds silly as Sirdan. <p></p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<BR><br><br> When I first read the books in High School I automatically made all the C's as S's where it seemed appropriate. The K sound seemed too gutteral for the Elven language. Even today I struggled with the K sound, and when I hear it pronounced (correctly) by others I must often process the information for a moment until I realize what word was actually said. The reading of the Lord of the Rings had many instances of this.<br> <br> Other examples of my attrocious M-E pronunciations are Eee-oh-mur and Dunn-uh-dane. <br> <br> Heck, I didn't even pronounce the professor's last name correctly until recently. And I really don't know if I've gotten it right yet. <p>The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)<br> I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Zoe]

<BR><br><br> <blockquote><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> Heck, I didn't even pronounce the professor's last name correctly until recently. And I really don't know if I've gotten it right yet.<hr></blockquote><br> How <i> is</i> it supposed to be pronounced? I say Tol-ken. My mum says Tol-keen. I've never known which was correct (or perhaps neither are).<br> <br> I too used to say sirith ungol, and it took me a while to stop that bad habit. <br> <br> <blockquote><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> The K sound seemed too gutteral for the Elven language.<hr></blockquote><br> With the Ks and the 'stronger' Rs, I think elven languages are fairly gutteral anyway. Presumably Icelandic and welsh are also a bit gutteral, although I wouldn't know for sure. <p></p>

[Orald]

<BR><br><br> how exactly would you go about pronouncing Eomer if it isn't Ee-oh-mer? I am fairly decent with sindarin accents, but not others like the Rohirrim and the Westron. <p></p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<BR><br><br> They way I think its supposed to be is<br> <br> AY-oh-mare<br> &amp;<br> TALL-keen <p>The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)<br> I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Zoe]

<BR><br><br> <blockquote><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> AY-oh-mare<br> &amp;<br> TALL-keen<hr></blockquote><br> Looks like mum was right then. Mothers always are... (I write tol, you write tall, but I <i> think</i> we're referring to the same sound, except tall is slightly more accurate as far as length goes.)<br> <br> Really, all these english approximations are annoying, though. AY as in 'pray'? Is the 'oh' long or short (if that makes any sense)? Mare to rhyme with bear? Throw in differing accents, and english gets terribly confusing. <br> <br> (I once read a book on linguistics which confused me because it used the A in 'father' as an example of one of the sounds, and then the A in the spanish 'casa' as another, and I'd always pronounced those two As the same way. But I digress.) <p></p>

[lindil]

<BR>pronunciations and pxievixens</b><br><br> Other examples of my attrocious M-E pronunciations are Eee-oh-mur --ok<br> and Dunn-uh-dane. <br> <br> what is your pronun. of dunedain?<br> doon -ee-dain? <br> <br> I used the soft c for celeborn for years till I was scoffed at by one of my friends who had actully deigned to read the pronunciation tables somewhere...hey wait a minute this is a worthy discussion [best moved to the books?] , but what about Elrond theVampire and Arwen the pixievixen?<br> <br> Lindil <p>Lindil is often found on posting on the New Silmarillion Canon Forum at the Barrowdowns discussion board. 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[the Lorien wanderer]

<BR><br><br> It's not sell-e-born? What is it then?<br> Getting back to the topic-I was afraid of that. Arwen in the battle is silly enough. A pointy eared Arwen is worse. With Liv Tyler to top it off.<br> <p>Not all those who wander are lost.</p>

[lindil]

<BR>c = k</b><br><br> <br> keleborn<br> <br> <br> lindil <p>Lindil is often found on posting on the New Silmarillion Canon Forum at the Barrowdowns discussion board. 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[Zoe]

<BR><br><br> It's all in Appendix E, Pronunciation of Words and Names. The pronunciation notes are really quite interesting (and embarassing if you've always been pronouncing something wrongly).<br> <br> For example:<br> AU = ow as in 'how'. (Sauron isn't pronounced Sore-on. If they don't pronounce it correctly in the movies, I shall mutter many nasty things about PJ.)<br> <p></p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<BR><br><br> Dang it! You've found another one I still do wrong. <p>The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)<br> I usually haunt <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">The Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs <a href="http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi">Middle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[coprophage7]

<BR><br><br> I have that issue of Entertainment Weekly as well. Yes, Elrond does resemble a vampire. I think it was the hair which did it for me. <p></p>

[Mister Underhill]

<BR><br><br> <blockquote><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> AU = ow as in 'how'. (Sauron isn't pronounced Sore-on. <hr></blockquote>I am aware of this (correct) pronunciation but could never bring myself to adopt it -- I always feel like I'm doing my Jack Kennedy impression when I say it that way. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000005>Mister Underhill</A> at: 1/23/01 10:56:40 am<br></i>

[HerenIstarion]

I was in a better position from a beginning seemingly, as I read LoTR in Russian translation - the translator obviously bothered himself reading appendices and made the transcriptions more or less corectly. Though I was emberresed to meet Smaug, not Smog - the Hobbit, which I've read before getting on LoTR (and which was translated decade earlier and by person not familiar with other works of JRRT) he was merely Smog, as well as Tolkien (Tall-Keen) was given as Tall-kee-an (there ar 4 or 5 russian translations, and one of them even gives Tolkien as Tall - kai - an, and another turned ents to onts, while Balrog is Barlog and so on )

But I were lucky to get one best to read at first

A story must be told or there'll be no story, yet it is the untold stories that are most moving

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

<BR><br><br> It wasn't until three months ago that I began to prnounce Hoorin, Toona instead of Tyoona and Hyoorin, Doonedine instead of Dunadain. Gwiyhir instead of Gwayhir, Daa-in istead of Dane, Kelborn istead of Selborn. But hang it all, I can't say Kurdan, no matter how hard I try to implement into my brain. I suppose to do it properly one would have to read the notes on pronunciation first (although I think I've done rather well, really ) <p>Gwaihir the Windlord <I><A href="http://www.barrowdowns.com">the barrow-downs</A></I><BR> 'Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor,<BR> for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever,<BR> and the Dark Tower is thrown down.'<BR></p>

[Mithadan]

<BR><br><br> Isn't it Kairdan, more like Keerdan than Kurdan? <p>--Mithadan--<BR> "The Silmarils with living light<BR> were kindled clear, and waxing bright<BR> shone like stars that in the North<BR> above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Orald]

<BR><br><br> I always pronounced it like Keerdan, with the accent on the Keer <p></p>

[Zoe]

<BR><br><br> Same here, Durelen. Isn't that the correct way? (I as in 'machine', non?) <p></p>

[the Lorien wanderer]

<BR><br><br> It's always been Gwyhir. But I'm always going to say Dunedain not Doonedine. That sounds...well...weird. And I think Sell-e-born is going to stick too. <br> I knew I should've paid more attention to that bit in the appendix. <p>Not all those who wander are lost.</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000038>the Lorien wanderer</A> at: 1/26/01 7:17:56 am<br></i>

[Orald]

<BR><br><br> Let's see what else do i screw up...I say Gway-here, I also say Doon-uh-dane. Lor-ee-en, Loo-thee-en with the th being the soft th as in thin. I have come to believe that I pronounce most thing wrong. <p></p>

[enep]

<BR>ARGH!</b><br><br> What about Caradhras = Cara-thras? They're going to get that horribly wrong. That and, as pointed out, Sauron. Ugh. But I could never prounounce any of those. Carad-rass always sounded better. So did done-a-dane. So did Eeh-o-mer. As did Celeborn. But I always had Cirith Ungol, it sounded more evil with the harsh K sound. Maedhros I pronounced Mee-dros until a week ago. Meye-thros. ARGH! Yes, and Gway-here. <p>- <i>enep</i></p>

[Orald]

<BR><br><br> Crap, I forgot about Maedhros=May-Drose. And I actually pronounce the dh as th, weird that i don't in that situation. I heard they worked with Tolkien linguists to make sure everything was pronounced correctly, so I assume everything will be fine, it is just that none of us will quite agree because we never worked with Tolkien linguists before we read the books. <p></p>

[enep]

<BR>Heh heh...</b><br><br> Yes, unfortunately I never had that chance. One less thing to criticise PJ on then, if the pronunciations ARE correct. <p>- <i>enep</i></p>

[Zoe]

<BR><br><br> <blockquote><i>Quote:</i></b><hr> I heard they worked with Tolkien linguists<hr></blockquote><br> Tolkien Linguists? You mean that next time someone asks me what I want to do when I leave school I can tell them I want to be a Tolkien linguist? Cool! <br> <br> (As opposed to my standard response of: I want to do linguistics and history, and if that doesn't get me a job I'll learn Serbo-Croat and start a Mexican restaurant in Montenegro. Yes, well...) <p></p>

[the Lorien wanderer]

<BR> Re: Heh heh...</b><br><br> What about Tolkien chefs? There's a school somewhere in Italy, I think, where they actually train you to make their version of the middle earth dishes. I don't know how good they are but I'd sure like to have their lembas sometime. <br> <br> Zoe:if you DO become a Tolkien linguist, you can open the restaurant anyway; just make it Middle-earth cuisine, not Mexican. Get a couple of chaps flown in from Italy and make your announcements sprinked with lots of Tolkien words. You'll have a winner. <p>Not all those who wander are lost.</p>

[Zoe]

<BR> Re: Heh heh...</b><br><br> Yes, I shall become a zillionaire and take over the world, and use my new-found power to insist that everyone study Middle Earth History in school and pronounce all the names correctly. <p></p>

[Orald]

<BR> Re: Heh heh...</b><br><br> I can just visualize it. Tolkien fans from al over the world will flock to it so they can dine on ME cuizine, and discuss the books. <p></p>

[the Lorien wanderer]

<BR> Re: Heh heh...</b><br><br> Sounds awesome. Go for it Zoe. We'll be your best customers. Provided there are plenty of heated discussions about who Tom Bombadil was and whether elves have poointy ears. <p>Not all those who wander are lost.</p>

[Zoe]

<BR> Re: Heh heh...</b><br><br> Still, if I wanted a world famous Tolkien restaurant, I'd have to do it somewhere a bit less obscure than Montenegro... <p></p>

[enep]

<BR>Bingo!</b><br><br> I've got an idea. How about you dump a whole lot of dirt in the ocean on top of Hawaii, call it the Island of Numenoré and build your restaurant there along with an international airport and a lot of development land? Then you'd be . All that, only to be destroyed by the wrath of the Americans of the Western World who were annoyed because you destroyed their favourite tourist spot Of course, you could always build it down here in Sydney...<br> <p>- <i>enep</i></p>

[the Lorien wanderer]

<BR><br><br> Oh, you're both Australian? <p>Not all those who wander are lost.</p>

[Zoe]

<BR><br><br> Sydney... yes, that could be a good idea. Although England would be the 'logical' ME place, what with Tolkien having lived there nearly all his life. <p></p>

[enep]

<BR><br><br> Yes, I live in Sydney. Wonderful place for a ME restaurant... <p>- <i>enep</i></p>

[Zoe]

<BR><br><br> Well I live in Perth. It would be a good place of a ME restaurant, except being so isolated, most non-Australians don't quite know where it is.<br> <br> <p></p>

[enep]

<BR>Tourists</b><br><br> True. If it weren't for tourist brochures I doubt that anyone would know that there was</b> a Western Australia, let alone Perth. Tourists. <p>- <i>enep</i></p>

[the Lorien wanderer]

<BR> Re: Tourists</b><br><br> Hey, Australia's really out of the way. Make it kind of in the centre of all the main continents. London sounds good. Or maybe in the centre of the earth. Coz it's middle earth cuisine. Middle of the earth and middle earth food. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!! I'm going mad. Forgive the awful, awful joke. <p>Not all those who wander are lost.</p>