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Old 10-15-2002, 01:03 PM   #1
Fool-of-a-Took
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Pipe Does anyone else like the cartoon?

I saw it when I was about 12 years old on telly and loved it. It was my introduction to Tolkiens work and I probably wouldn't have bought the book if it wasn't for the cartoon. <BR>I know in retrospect it is an abominable adaptation with too many faults to list, but it still holds dear to me. The only problem was that for years I could only imagine the characters in the book looking like those in the cartoon, big hair!!
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Old 10-15-2002, 02:35 PM   #2
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I don't think I ever saw it as a bairn. My mate saw it in HMV on sale for 4 quid or something, and gave it to me for my birthday about a month ago (after watching it himself, jerk.)<BR>I found it agonising to watch. Not even due to the deviations from the book and the high esteem I hold the PJ film in, but simply because it was a rubbish cartoon, no matter what the story or history of it.<P>The animation was dreadful, and I think it would only have been good if I was tripping on acid, or at least stoned. That's how random and surreal it looked. The background bits look like those shoody old Indian puppet shows they're using on the KFC ads, they were so wank. And the whole Saruman/Gandalf showdown was a joke, what were all those weird 'graphics' supposed to be? They looked like a fiver spent on trying to recreate the Northern Lights.<P>Not to mention the terrible voicing and hideous representation of Elves. Although that having been said, I was still all "Bollocks!" when it ended at Helm's Deep. I wanted to see that piece of turd through, although God knows why.<P>Could it even go full circle to total campness, the whole <I>so bad, it's laughable and thus good</I> in a cult way? I doubt it.

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Old 10-15-2002, 03:37 PM   #3
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Watching the cartoon, for me, is like having twelve gallons of boiling molasses poured in my bed as I sleep.
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Old 10-15-2002, 04:32 PM   #4
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I've never watched the cartoons, but at the library where I work there is a book of the Hobbit which is heavily illustrated with scenes from that cartoon.<P>I've paged through it a couple times, the first time out of curiosity and the second time to see if I had just imagined it the first time.<P>The Elves were little, twisted, odd green thingies! Gollum was a frog! Bible looked like a potato! Gandalf's nose was three feet long!<P>My mother says I used to watch it when it was on TV sometimes, when I was very young. Fortunatly, I have no recollection of that, and so when I read the Hobbit I had no déjà vu. Maybe that's another indication of how bad it was, that it didn't resemble the story enough to resurface in my mind at all.
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Old 10-15-2002, 05:06 PM   #5
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Yeah, it was horrible, wasn't it. I watched it out of curiosity and I thought it was hilarious! I find the stupidest things funny, but it was so bad...that I thought it was funny!
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Old 10-15-2002, 05:29 PM   #6
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Yeah! The first one by Ralph Bashki I like a lot, he did a good job on it considering technology and stuff back then. You can't go and compare the cartoon and the live action movie. Now the Return of the King by this other person makes me sick, but if you're talking about the first one-yeah!<P><BR>---------------<BR>"We're the Knights of the Round Table, we dance wherever able...." - Monty Python and the Holy Grail
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Old 10-15-2002, 05:37 PM   #7
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The cartoon is so bad...it's funny! My sister and I watch it all the time when we need a good chuckle. I especially love the "fearsome" Nazgul.
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Old 10-15-2002, 10:27 PM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> and I think it would only have been good if I was tripping on acid, or at least stoned <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ever consider that perhaps the animators <I>were</I>?
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Old 10-15-2002, 10:52 PM   #9
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LOL! All of your comments are funny! The first time I saw the cartoons I was at about 7. At the moment I thought that movie was strange without a doubt. It was kinda creepy, that it scared me! But hey I was only 7.
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Old 10-17-2002, 02:31 PM   #10
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Compaired to the horror I went throught, the cartoon disurves an Academy Award! In 2nd grade, for a field trip went to see a play of The Hobbit. It was the worst piece of [insert objectionable curse words here] I ever had the misfourtune of viewing. It was being performed by children from grades 2-5. As I recall, the costumes were horrable (forgive my spelling errors). Most of the time I couldn't even hear the voices of the performeters. The most humourous part of the play were the people who played Gollum and Gandalf. Gollum was played by an obviously obese child, and by the way that Gandalf was walking(on stilts), he wobbled like he had finally let himself go on the pipeweed. I remember a giant paper mesha dragon playing Smaug and taking 30 minutes at the least to dress the stage between sences, but that's about it(mostly due to the crystal-like ornomint on Gandalf's staff. I swear that thing gave me seziures every time it got into the stage light.)
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Old 10-17-2002, 02:53 PM   #11
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I've never seen the animated LOTR, but I did see "The Hobbit" and it gave me nightmares. Like the St. patrick's day claymation cartoon *shudders* because of the animated version, I was afraid of hobbits till I was 11, then I read the the book and that healed the mental wound.
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Old 10-18-2002, 01:41 PM   #12
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I have never seen The Return of the King cartoon but I would like to just to hear to famed Frodo of the nine fingers song.<P>I have seen the Ralph Bashki version and from the moment I saw Sam I had no respect for it. I watch that movie if I want a good laugh.<P>As for the animated Hobbit movie I think it was a great movie. Many of the details are not accurate but besides that it's a delightfull movie and worth at least one viewing.
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Old 10-18-2002, 01:50 PM   #13
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yes! Rose Cotton, i agree with you! I love The Hobbit and LOTR, animated versions! They might not be completely correct, but neither is the new, live action version! What movie IS completely corresponding to the book?! I think the animated version is pretty good...especially for the year it was created in - no cartoons were really wonderful back then!
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Old 10-18-2002, 06:49 PM   #14
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Sting

i thought the cartoon to be rather good but weird if not disturbing... until i found out that it was made to actually be a serious movie then the movie was ruined for some reason... or maybe it was pantless Aragorn?O_o
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Old 10-18-2002, 10:24 PM   #15
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I came across that book again (the one with illustraitions from the cartoon). I couldn't help but flip through it again, and found that the Elves were worse than I'd remembered. They weren't actually green, more like bluish-gray. Their bodies were squat but their legs were long. Their eyes were nothing short of evil and surly. They were balding, and the hair they had was wispy and stringly. Their hangs and feet were amphibian. They were butt-ugly.<P>In short, they were the exact opposite of what Elves should look like. In fact, they were rather close to how I have always pictured Gollum. The only way you could get me to watch this cartoon would be to tie me securely to a chair and pry my eyes open with clothespins.<P>But enough complaining (though I'll probably have nightmares tonight!). I'm posting because I'm wondering...does anyone know of a motivation for depicting the Elves this way? I mean, did the animators ever explain why the Elves were so unlike "real" Elves? Or were they, as others have suggested, just high?
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Old 10-19-2002, 11:38 AM   #16
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I got as a christmas present last year (oh God) and watched it with the person who bought it! Guess who.....my girlfriend. Sheer hell!!<P>When I saw Sam I just lost it and kept cursin all the way through. The tacky graphics were laughable with the half cartoon/half-reality stuff!<P>Boromir looked like something out of Dungeons and Dragons, and my mind has blanked out the elves and ringwraiths completely so they must have been bad!
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Old 10-20-2002, 07:29 AM   #17
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<B>I</B> know the truth - that Elves aren't "bad", but there are a lot of people who, after reading JUST The Hobbit, think Elves (especially in Mirkwood) are evil. The illistrators of the cartoon might have thought the same...i mean, they imprisoned dwarves...<BR>I personally like the movie <shrugs> i know they can do a better job, but this one will suit me...i think it's rather funny...
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Old 10-25-2002, 11:22 PM   #18
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I thought the Ralph Bashki cartoon was pretty good considering when it was made. It had some problems, but it wasn't terrible. My kids liked it but thought the animation was sort of dated. I think my 8-year old rented this other one. He enjoyed it. Even a bad version of LOTR is better than much of the thin, unoriginal tales being served up as entertainment.
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Old 10-30-2002, 10:51 PM   #19
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oh dear, i had forgotten about that "Frodo of the nine fingers" song. I had forced that memory into a dark corner of my mind. This is horrible.
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Old 03-06-2004, 02:58 PM   #20
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The animated Hobbit has a special place in my heart . I'm serious! It was what first introduced me to Tolkien (don't laugh!). Watching it again now I find it quite hilarious and stupid but it still brings back some happy memories. The songs are so funny! I especially like "The Hobbit's Ballad (the greatest adventure)" and the dwarves song. Hehehe! The wood elves are seriously hideous though, and Gandalfs nose is so long I just want to snip the end off.
I know I watched the Return of the King movie when I was little but I only remember bits and pieces. I remember the "Frodo of Nine Fingers" song. Yuck. I also remember that I thought Frodo was really scary, and I never wanted to read the books after that. Poor, impressionable me.
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Old 03-06-2004, 09:40 PM   #21
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Personally I can't somach Bakshi but I like the Rankin-Bass.

I like the songs (Really, I'm serious. ) Not so much "Frodo of the Nine Fingers"... but I do like "It's so easy not to try" and "Roads go ever ever on", and out of the Hobbit I like the several of the songs. I think the Hobbit version of "Tra la la lally" is pretty good. And I even like "The greatest adventure is what lies ahead."

Maybe I'm influenced by the review at Hollywood Jesus but I think the R/B cartoons were pretty alright. Not great, but pretty not-bad.

Bakshi... (shudder) No.
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Old 03-07-2004, 01:40 AM   #22
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The cartoons are not that bad, especially for the time and era they were created in. I especially enjoy The Hobbit. It retains a folkish innocent quality the book captures. Bilbo was very well done and his match of wits with Smaugh is classic. I also enjoy the music of the Hobbit which plays an important part in the books and was hardly touched upon by PJ (what there was in the movies was probably done upon Viggo's insistence). Though I do dislike the irritating "Minstrel" in the cartoon "Return of the King." BTW, I saw the cartoon LOTR in the theaters and ROTK's original TV broadcast.
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Old 03-07-2004, 11:59 AM   #23
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You want my opinion of the cartoon? Well, you asked for it...

Important Stuff Left Out:
1 - The Ring inscription...that's....very...very...important.
2 - THEY NEVER SAY THE RING CAN BE DESTROYED IN MT. DOOM!
3 - The S in Saruman. Who on Arda is Aruman?

Characters Mangled:
1 - Boromir and Sauron were Knights Who Say Ni!
3 - Elrond...was not...an elf...
4 - Saruman 'Aruman' had the voice of a frog
5 - Treebeard looked like a monkey...and he never once said HOOM!
6 - Aragorn had the voice of a gecko.

Additions of EVIL:
1 - The Battle of the Hornburg was apparently made by Sam Peckinpah.
2 - Oh, don't get me started on the music...incidental my eye!
3 - 4 painful words: Milking the Giant Cow
4 - Also, Isildur was turned into a backstabber!
3 - Utter lack of any emotion.

Cartoonstuffs:
Ok, another crucial thing that made me hate this was the constant use of real-footage plastered evilly over cartoon. Like in Bree, cartoon hobbits sitting in a room with stencil realistic full-grown men in bad costumes. Also, half the time, important characters are made 8 times brighter so they'll be seen. Namely all elves have brightness-defect, as does Gandalf, and Theoden once or twice for 'effect.'

I could say more, but I won't.

On the bright side, Gollum and the Ringwaiths weren't at all bad.
If the cartoon inspired you to read the books, good. I'm glad for you. Just because I despise the thing doesn't mean it's all bad.

A poisonous toast to Ralph Bakshi!

P.S. I did like the Rankin-Bass Hobbit. That actually worked very well, except for Gandalf's super-eyebrows and the bloated goblins of Gundabad. Otherwise, I did like that one.
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:03 PM   #24
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My uncle thinks it was very good. I'm being serious...*shudders*

Why the heck was Sam made so ugly? They didn't have to try THAT hard to distinguish the hobbits...I mean, I know they're plain and all that, but he was just scary!

As for Aragorn...
Quote:
or maybe it was pantless Aragorn?
Do you know how much of a shock that gave me? I mean, I know he was trouserless, but pantless too would give me nightmares, especially with the length of (or rather, lack of) tunic...but then I realised you're American...

I never watched long enough to see them out of the Shire, I really couldn't stomach it in doses of more than about 10 minutes. Then I just gave up. And I can't remember those songs you are all talking about...perhaps that's for the best though...
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Old 03-07-2004, 01:11 PM   #25
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I saw the cartoon version of The Hobbit a while after Fotr came out, I rented it. Frankly, I wasn't impressed. I thought that didn't explain enough and I thought the Elves were ugly.
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Old 03-08-2004, 11:36 AM   #26
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What a load of moaners!

I think the Bakshi version was very well made, and dealt with the first book and a half in under 2 hours very well indeed.

At least he mentions the 17 year gap!

Jackson himself must have liked the film as he copied a number of things from it, including the shot of the ring bouncing down the rocks in Moria and the shot of Proudfoot sitting at the party with his legs on a chair. And, of course, a direct copy of the Nazgul in the hobbits' bedroom in Bree.

The ATMOSPHERE of the movie was great. This, to me, is an essential part of an adaptation. An example is the scene with Theoden and Aragorn before they ride out to face the orcs. The look on their faces when they realise they have met their doom is marvellous.

re cartoon Sam. I always saw Sam as a bit slow witted and backwards when I first read the books, and this is what makes him an even greater hero when you see him rise above this and become 'one of the greats' as Gandalf puts it. I believe the cartoon Sam is nearer to the book Sam than Sean Astin's. (though not exactly right either). And, no, I'm not dissing Mr Astin, I think his acting and portrayal in the films was excellent, just not quite 'my' Sam.

The music was good, especially the theme tune and the lament for Gandalf.

The only thing I had against it was working out who was Merry and who was Pippin!

And at least we had the immortal line "Fly, fly the enemy is upon us!"

And why on Earth take the mickey out of Aragorn's voice? That was John Hurt for pete's sake! A classic english actor, who could act most people 'off the stage'

The Gollum character was superbly thought out. Again, to me, I think this version of Gollum is nearer (character wise) to the book that Jackson's. And his voice was excellent too.

Give poor Bakshi a break. A job well done. I think I'll pop the dvd on tonight for another view. Thanks!
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Old 03-08-2004, 11:45 AM   #27
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Silmaril In support of Bakshi

I'm with Essex on this one. I saw the Bakshi cartoon in the cinema when it first came out and have very fond memories of it. Looking back, Red Indian Aragorn, Viking Boromir, Farmer Gimli and Clarence the cross-eyed Legolas are rather amusing. But, to my mind, Essex makes some strong points in its favour.

It's also worth bearing in mind that it was made in the late 1970s, when CGI technology was virtually unheard of. Film effects and animation techniques have moved on a long way since then.
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Old 03-08-2004, 09:54 PM   #28
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Tolkien

Saucepan Man, you stole the words right out of my mouth. Curses, foiled again! Ahem.

I personally have never seen LotR, but I have seen The Hobbit, which freaked me out to put it bluntly. But, my main point is that I would never have read LotR if it hadn't been for that animated hobbit which was fairly good in my humble opinion. So what if Gollum looked like a frog. I don't believe Tolkien really described him that clearly in The Hobbit. As for the elves, I think they were green to get that glow look that is mentioned in FotR somewhere...they weren't that bad, really...

And yes, if it hadn't been for the horrid animations, then Jackson wouldn't have made the films, which some may view as a good thing, but I think the majority would mourn the loss.
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Old 03-09-2004, 01:53 PM   #29
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I vaguely remember my uncle taking me to see the LotR cartoon in London when I was 7 (many many many years ago) years old and visiting from the States for his wedding, and I vividly recall many bad dreams due to the Ringwraiths on horses scene which seemed like animation drawn over an live action shot. It scared the daylights out of me for years and I wasn't sure where it came from, and then when I finally read The Hobbit and LotR , it dawned on me where my nightmares came from...those stupid Nazgul scene from the cartoon.
Ugh! I'm so glad I got over my frights and enjoy the books now despite my bad experience with the cartoon.
By the way, I thought The Hobbit cartoon wasn't that bad.
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Old 03-10-2004, 06:36 AM   #30
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Question

I remember seeing Bakshis LoTR on sunday afternoon TV as a kid, and I was well impressed, puzzled and disturbed, but its biggest effect was to leave me wanting more info and visuals of Middle Earth.
So I read LoTR, which was brilliant, but for years I had an unchangeable set of mental images of all of the Bakshi-style Fellowship, which was bad, especially for those cheeky wee basin haircutted Hobbits with their quirky little hand movements and japery.
All-in-all though its a top introduction to JRRTs work for kids, particuarly lazy ones, and Essex I totally agree with you about 'the ATMOSPHERE of the movie being great' it had/has some genuinely fine moments - eg. Frodo valiantly resisting the Wraiths at Weathertop and the Ford of Bruinen, two moments where PJs Frodo could've been so much better and truer to the Book, had he copied Bakshis version.
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Old 03-10-2004, 07:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
the Ringwraiths on horses scene ... seemed like animation drawn over an live action shot
Indeed, that's exactly what it was. It was a technique used in all the horseriding and battle scenes in the Bakshi film. And it was "state of the art" at the time, too!
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Old 03-10-2004, 02:10 PM   #32
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Shield

Hm, I actually liked The Hobbit! It's one of my favorite cartoon movies. And I liked the songs in it, though some of you say otherwise.

Haven't seen the RotK cartoon, but I intend to soon.

No comment on LotR...
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Old 03-10-2004, 02:36 PM   #33
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I didn't think there was a RotK cartoon...I thought the whole thing ended at Helm's Deep! (What a jip!)

Is there an RotK cartoon?
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"I wish I could go all the way with you to Rivendell, Mr. Frodo, and see Mr. Bilbo," said Sam. "And yet the only place I really want to be in is here. I am that torn in two."
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Old 03-10-2004, 02:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tigerlily Gamgee
Watching the cartoon, for me, is like having twelve gallons of boiling molasses poured in my bed as I sleep.
LOL LOL

God I so agree.
*** did they do with Saruman anyway??
(yes, i tend to rant about saruman. deal with it.)

He had a red dress!
He had huge hair!
He had a crow voice!
And HE was the one doing the fireworks!
On top of that, they called him ARUMAN!

LOL LOL :D
(all i can do is laugh.
until i cry.)
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Old 03-11-2004, 03:56 AM   #35
Essex
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Oh my God!! They left out the S in Saruman!!!!!!!

How dare they! And I thought Frodo showing the Ring to the Nazgul, and Faramir dragging the hobbits to Osgilliath in the live action movie was bad!!!! How could I be so stupid?????!!!!!!

Calling Saurman 'aruman is a grevious sin I cannot abide. I will throw my copy of the cartoon DVD into a dustbin and set fire to it.

I have never been so outraged in my life!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-11-2004, 02:57 PM   #36
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Hahaha... the other movies... Classic. I've never seen The Hobbit, though since Keeper of Dol Goldur advises against it, I may to spite him.

The Return of the King is simply brilliant. I love it. My boyfriend and I occasionally start singing the songs for pure enjoyment (anybody for a rousing chorus of "Where there's a whip, there's a way [Hey hey!]!"?). And who said that the minstrel is annoying? I found the beginning rather entertaining (Bilbo: I'm so old I don't remember anything. Gandalf: Thank God we brought a minstrel from Gondor to save the day!).

I can't say I've ever made it all the way through Lord of the Rings, though. I may have, and simply [thank god] have forgotten it. I get about to the "17 years passed in the Shire" (you know, the part where 17 years worth of seasons flash in the space of about 15 seconds?) and I turn it off. Although I do vividly remember Boromir of the Horned Helm.

All in all, as horrible as these films are, I highly recommend them to everyone. Its truly a life altering experience to see Sam and have the immediate reaction "Dear God what is that thing?". But if you see them and tell someone else to, expect to be smacked at least once.

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Old 03-16-2004, 03:05 PM   #37
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Whooo ! I haven`t got the chance to see the cartoon , but from all your most definetly one-wayed thoughts of it , I must admit : I do not regret the fact . Though maybe a little for I can`t post a normal post with a dramaticly alike-to-the-other-ones agreement of the uselessness of this cartoon and , as far as I get it , I have missed quite a laugh
Oah and do pleace be thankful that J.R.R.Tolkien , in his last will , forbided Disney to make LotR a cartoon

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Old 03-16-2004, 06:46 PM   #38
Essex
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I watched the film again the other day.

In at least one way, the cartoon is better than the action movies inasmuch as it is FAR more faithful to the books than Jackson's.

Don't get me wrong, Jackson's films overall are far superior, but stop dissing the cartoon. It is VERY FAITHFUL to the book (with just a few digressions), but it obviously leaves a fair bit out (to fit in 1.5 books in 1 film).

I started writing a list of where it is more faithful, but I ran out of room on my piece of A4 so gave up! Little things like the attack of the Black Riders taking place in the dell below weathertop, not on the 'summit' of weathertop as was shown in the action film, and Frodo singing the drinking song and slipping in the common room as is in the book, and not because action movie Pippin (surprise, surprise, make him the village idiot) gives the game away.

Oh, and we see Gandalf actually handling the Ring as should be the case. Also, I love the seen (in the book and cartoon) where Gandalf snatches the envelope containing the ring from Bilbo's grasp.

Loads more, but I think you get my point.

Try not to be snobbish and view the film for what it is. A faithful adaptation of Lord of the Rings as a CARTOON.

OH, and another thing. At least the cartoon shows Merry and Pippin's 'consipiracy unmasked', and gives their reason for going with Sam and Frodo. This is key to their characters and the Hobbits' friendship throughout the whole book. In the action movie we have a MASSIVE coincedence (I'd hate to know what the odds are) of the two of them running smack bang into Frodo in the middle of a field in the middle of the Shire. One in a million perhaps? At least the cartoon faithfully shows the real reason for Merry and Pippin being there.

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Old 03-17-2004, 09:28 AM   #39
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Tolkien

I actually enjoy the Rankin-Bass movies. Of course they don't do everything right, such as Beorn (who is as present as Tom Bombadil), and the elves (I wonder how many people would Lego if he looked like that!, and don't you just love Elrond's beard and halo!), but I really like the songs. I'll often burst into a verse of "Frodo of the Nine Fingers", or "Tra la la lally", or "When there's a whip, there's a way". They keep some of the best lines, like Smaug's boasting and Éowyn's speech to the Witch-king (well, they don't keep all of it, but it's far closer than Peter got! )
Yes, the minstrel gets annoying eventually, and Denethor's madness is strangely incorporated, and Faramir is seen a grand total of 3 times, and the Nazgul are poorly done, and mispronounce several Elvish names, but hey, they also have the Elessar, and Elladan and Elrohir (their backs at least when Aragorn's planning the march to the Morannon), and the correct finger being lost, and the Watchers, and the Red Arrow.

The Bakshi version on the other hand………the men eventently hadn't invented pants yet (yes Elentarí_O_Most_Mighty_1, that's trousers to everyone in the world besides Americans), and they butcher Elf names even worse, and Lego looks like a pig, Boromir, a viking, and Elrond, just normal , like a dad you would see at some school function, and their treatment of Éowyn: "Hey look, it's Éowyn…back to the real story.", and the lament of Gandalf, as I remember it was far too happy.
This movie actually lead to some rather embarassing misconceptions:
I still hadn't read the books yet. I didn't know it was m-E-R-r-y, so him looking like a girl didn't help matters. And as I watched Cate Blanchette and Elijah Wood at the Mirror of Galadriel, at Galadriel's line "He will try to take the Ring." I was wondering, "Okay, that Boromir guy looks like he would want the Ring, but it was the guy with the Viking hat in the cartoon, and wasn't that Gimli?"
But on the brighter side, almost everything said in that movie is straight from the book, and said when it was said in the book (like "If by my life or death I can protect you, I will." at Bree!). And as said before, they actually have the 17 yr. gap (altough done poorly), and Frodo talking to the Ringwraiths at Bruinen (a part I very much enjoy in the books), and Aragorn having the Sword that was Broken. And I completely agree with Essex about the 'conspiracy unmasked' part.

And of course the brightest part of the cartoons: Neither has any referance to Arwen! (which I think is the better extreme.) j/k.
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Old 03-17-2004, 11:47 AM   #40
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To be honest, I think people's perceptions of the cartoon depends on things such as their age, what level of CGI and so on they have been exposed to, whether they had seen PJ's ones first, attention span...and so on. I mean, that is the first time I had seen a cartoon from the 1970s and I've seen much better...and my attention span is not all it should be really. I saw FOTR first...I might have seen TTT as well actually, I can't remember. And all those airy fairy special effects got to me because they contrasted so greatly with the potatoe-ness of the Hobbits...but Essex is right, it is more faithful than PJ's. It's just that I seem unable to appreciate it...(I never got past the Hobbits leaving the Shire, as I recall). Anyway, I don't like animated stuff as a rule...I couldn't stand Fantasia for a start...(that would be because it both bored me and terrified me...interesting combination, no?)
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