Who ruled Bree? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eggy · 02-23-2002, 07:24 PM

The Shire was ruled by the Mayor of Michel Delving, elected every seven years. What about Bree?

Mat_Heathertoes · 02-23-2002, 07:29 PM

They're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. They take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week....

Voronwe · 02-24-2002, 04:28 AM

Ha ha ha!
Seriously, though, Bree probably wasn't ruled by anyone. The Shire wasn't actually ruled by the Mayor of Michel Delving - he did little more than preside at banquets. Everyone pretty much looked after their own affairs. I expect it was the same in Bree.

avarerniliel · 02-24-2002, 02:44 PM

I'd have to agree with Veronwe there. Bree was probably just one of those towns that took care of itself. But I bet the richer and more respected you were, the more power you have. Of course, that's true in most situations, isn't it...? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Elven-Maiden · 02-24-2002, 03:02 PM

Bree was a type of Utopian village for men and hobbits. I guess they didn't need a leader, as we'd think of one. I'd love to write more about this, but I have to go herd my chickens back into the barn before they got lost.... silly birds... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 02-26-2002, 04:45 PM

They have a pub and a load of tobacco plantations. Who needs a leader?

Any thoughts as to Barliman Butterbur's standing? I know that he's a respected and well-to-do citizen, but could he be the closest they have to a mayor? Even if not, the idea of an innkeeper being the leader of a utopian community makes a lot of sense to me.

[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: Squatter of Amon Rudh ]

Samwise · 02-26-2002, 05:35 PM

Quote:

The Shire wasn't actually ruled by the Mayor of Michel Delving

Okay, confused....if he presided over banquets and stuff in the Shire, what was the significance of "Michel Delving"? Was that part of the title in memory of a place or person, or what?

Quote:

Sam had a natural mistrust of the inhabitants of other parts of the Shire; and also he was not disposed to be quick friends with anyone who had beaten his master, however long ago.

Lord Syslox of Emyn Beverli · 02-26-2002, 11:11 PM

Dont know if im right, ive got no evidence, just ideas:
The Mayor of the Shire (or more specifically of Michel Delving) presided over important events as well as smoothing out any problems between inhabitants (i imagine). The Master of Buckland would have the same role but just for Buckland (it being almost independant). The Thain was chosen to represent the King (after the end of the North kingdom) so he must have had some governing power. Consider the Sherifs and the posthobbits, someones gotta organise (and originally ordain) them. In the appendixes it says King Elessar made the Thain, the Master and the Mayor councellors of the North Kingdom. This means they (fundamentally) represented the Shire people in the King's Court. When the Tower Hills were given to the Hobbits, the Fairbaines became the Wardens of the Westmarch. The Mayor would have taken care of the westfarthing (thats were Michel Delving is), the Master of Buchland had the eastfarthing (obviously), and the Thain of Tukborough (in the southfarthing) would have shared the north and south with the other two.

To conclude:
I imagine Bree would have a system similar to the shire hobbits, were a number of individuals dont rule but act almost as judges and help each other out.

02-27-2002, 07:48 AM

Since Bree had a ditch, hedge, gates, gatehouses, and gatekeepers, all of which would have required communal labor and/or money to maintain, there must have been some organized leadership, if only of the "village elders" sort.

In the prologue to FOTR the obligations of the Shire Hobbits to the old kings basically consisted of "speeding the King's messengers", which might be taken to mean keeping roads and bridges in repair. Probably some sort of communal labor was called for here as well, as with the Shire Postal system, and the "Bounders".

Voronwe · 02-27-2002, 09:32 AM

Michel Delving, I believe, simply means 'Great Delving'.

02-27-2002, 11:50 AM

I too believe that they must have had som sort of leader or somthing. You know, someone who organised things... As I understands barliman at the prancing pony was somkind of leader... but I don't know...

02-27-2002, 03:09 PM

These sorts of sociological topics are always interesting. I agree with Syslox, plus I imagine that (both in the Shire and Bree) larger, wealthier families and landowners were influential and more or less mediated disagreements and managed affairs on their estates and in their families. Sounds a little medieval, I suppose!

I wonder, too, if it was something like medieval Iceland, which had no government but a big yearly Althing were big families got together to resolve differences and quarrels, etc. Didn't The Professor study Icelandic, among many other languages?

EG

Aralaithiel · 02-27-2002, 04:10 PM

Well, they didn't base their system of government on strange women lying in ponds distributing swords! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
*ok...that's it, I'm going to go change my sig back to what I originally had!

Samwise · 02-27-2002, 05:22 PM

Per Voronwe:

Quote:

Michel Delving, I believe, simply means 'Great Delving'.

Ah, thank you much for the inf'rmation.

Quote:

"Well, I'm back."
Sam Gamgee

02-23-2002, 07:24 PM	#1
Eggy Haunting Spirit Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Green land of Ireland Posts: 54	Who ruled Bree? The Shire was ruled by the Mayor of Michel Delving, elected every seven years. What about Bree? __________________ "A dog this good you have to feed every day"Homer Simpson

02-23-2002, 07:29 PM	#2
Mat_Heathertoes Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: A Broom cupboard in Utumno Posts: 185	They're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. They take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.... __________________ Give me fish now, and keep nassty chips!

02-24-2002, 04:28 AM	#3
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	Ha ha ha! Seriously, though, Bree probably wasn't ruled by anyone. The Shire wasn't actually ruled by the Mayor of Michel Delving - he did little more than preside at banquets. Everyone pretty much looked after their own affairs. I expect it was the same in Bree. __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

02-24-2002, 03:02 PM	#5
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	Bree was a type of Utopian village for men and hobbits. I guess they didn't need a leader, as we'd think of one. I'd love to write more about this, but I have to go herd my chickens back into the barn before they got lost.... silly birds... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

02-26-2002, 04:45 PM	#6
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,177	They have a pub and a load of tobacco plantations. Who needs a leader? Any thoughts as to Barliman Butterbur's standing? I know that he's a respected and well-to-do citizen, but could he be the closest they have to a mayor? Even if not, the idea of an innkeeper being the leader of a utopian community makes a lot of sense to me. [ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: Squatter of Amon Rudh ] __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne?

02-24-2002, 02:44 PM	#4
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	I'd have to agree with Veronwe there. Bree was probably just one of those towns that took care of itself. But I bet the richer and more respected you were, the more power you have. Of course, that's true in most situations, isn't it...? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

02-26-2002, 11:11 PM	#8
Lord Syslox of Emyn Beverli Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tol Hardor Posts: 15	Dont know if im right, ive got no evidence, just ideas: The Mayor of the Shire (or more specifically of Michel Delving) presided over important events as well as smoothing out any problems between inhabitants (i imagine). The Master of Buckland would have the same role but just for Buckland (it being almost independant). The Thain was chosen to represent the King (after the end of the North kingdom) so he must have had some governing power. Consider the Sherifs and the posthobbits, someones gotta organise (and originally ordain) them. In the appendixes it says King Elessar made the Thain, the Master and the Mayor councellors of the North Kingdom. This means they (fundamentally) represented the Shire people in the King's Court. When the Tower Hills were given to the Hobbits, the Fairbaines became the Wardens of the Westmarch. The Mayor would have taken care of the westfarthing (thats were Michel Delving is), the Master of Buchland had the eastfarthing (obviously), and the Thain of Tukborough (in the southfarthing) would have shared the north and south with the other two. To conclude: I imagine Bree would have a system similar to the shire hobbits, were a number of individuals dont rule but act almost as judges and help each other out. __________________ "Do not scorn pity that is the gift of a gentle heart" - Faramir to Eowyn. "A warrior should have more skills and knowlegde than only the craft of weapons and slaying" - Faramir

02-27-2002, 07:48 AM	#9
Orn the Witless Guest Posts: n/a	Since Bree had a ditch, hedge, gates, gatehouses, and gatekeepers, all of which would have required communal labor and/or money to maintain, there must have been some organized leadership, if only of the "village elders" sort. In the prologue to FOTR the obligations of the Shire Hobbits to the old kings basically consisted of "speeding the King's messengers", which might be taken to mean keeping roads and bridges in repair. Probably some sort of communal labor was called for here as well, as with the Shire Postal system, and the "Bounders".

02-27-2002, 09:32 AM	#10
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	Michel Delving, I believe, simply means 'Great Delving'. __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

02-27-2002, 11:50 AM	#11
Elenwen Guest Posts: n/a	I too believe that they must have had som sort of leader or somthing. You know, someone who organised things... As I understands barliman at the prancing pony was somkind of leader... but I don't know...

02-27-2002, 03:09 PM	#12
ElanorG Guest Posts: n/a	These sorts of sociological topics are always interesting. I agree with Syslox, plus I imagine that (both in the Shire and Bree) larger, wealthier families and landowners were influential and more or less mediated disagreements and managed affairs on their estates and in their families. Sounds a little medieval, I suppose! I wonder, too, if it was something like medieval Iceland, which had no government but a big yearly Althing were big families got together to resolve differences and quarrels, etc. Didn't The Professor study Icelandic, among many other languages? EG

02-27-2002, 04:10 PM	#13
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	Well, they didn't base their system of government on strange women lying in ponds distributing swords! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ok...that's it, I'm going to go change my sig back to what I originally had! __________________ A lelyat, wen!* (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"