Downers' Famous Fantasy Five

[Lalwendë]

Now for a little fun at this festive time of year I thought it might be enjoyable to put together a list of what our favourite fantasy fictions are, and maybe find a Top Five (or Ten).

Rules? We need a few. Here they are:
* Choose anything you like, so long as it can reasonably be argued to be 'fantasy' fiction. This might include graphic novels if you wish, or short stories or collections of the same.
* You may of course choose a Tolkien title. Purely for the fact that I want to see how far any of his works trounce the competition and if anyone doesn't choose him. No, I won't call you a heretic and call for you to be burned.
* You may choose a series/trilogy or whatnot if said is generally accepted as such.
* No more than one book or series per author in your Five, purely to prevent anyone having a list which predictably goes: Lord of the Rings; The Hobbit; The Children of Hurin etc.
* Choose according to sheer entertainment factor or literary quality, being 'influential' or merely having a dual purpose as a handy doorstop, that's up to you.
* Scores will follow the F1 pattern as follows: Number 1 choice = 10 points; 2 = 8 points; 3 = 6 points; 4 = 4 points; 5 = 2 points. Subject to Stewards' Inquiry.
* In case of argument I reserve the right to throw in another rule.

Here are mine:
1. Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien
2. His Dark Materials - Philip Pullman
3. Gormenghast - Mervyn Peake
4. The Harry Potter Series - JK Rowling
5. The Sandman Series - Neil Gaiman

That was quite difficult and I shall no doubt regret it in the morning...

We have a very extensive thread listing and discussing all kinds of books here if you seek inspiration: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1338

What else might you choose? Here are some things to whet your whistle:
The Belgariad; Chronicles of Thomas Covenant; Sword of Shannara; Lyonnesse; The Once and Future King; Little, Big; The Wheel of Time; The Worm Ourobouros; Earthsea; The Weirdstone of Brisingamen; Elric; Chronicles of Narnia; Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell; The Queen of Elfland's Daughter; Shadowmancer; The Dark Is Rising; Discworld; Watership Down; Artemis Fowl; Eragon; Earth's Children; A Song of Ice and Fire; Dune; Sword Of Truth; The Well At The World's End; Conan the Barbarian; Chronicles of Prydain; Lud In The Mist; Phantastes; Weaveworld etc etc................

[McCaber]

Sounds fun. Alright, here I go.

1. Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkien
2. A Song of Ice and Fire - George RR Martin
3. Dune - Frank Herbert
4. The Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan
5. Earthsea - Ursula K. LeGuin

It was a hard choice. Well, those are my picks. Let's see what everyone else says.

[Nogrod]

Nice thread Lal!

But how do you define fantasy in this one?

If Herbert's Dune is fantasy shouldn't we then count also other sci-fi stuff as well (even the old Edgar Rice Burroughs! )?

Another demarcation line issue: where is the difference between historical fiction or magical realism and fantasy?

I could put forward Tolkien and Holdstock with any definition but after that it gets harder...

Depending on the definiton I could offer Gogol or Marquez; Banks, Simmons or Gibson etc. And how about Jonathan Swift?

[THE Ka]

Good points Nogrod. I like too much magical realism as it is, now I can't make a good choice for my list!

I think by fantasy, it might mean by the simple lines of such genres of high fantasy, and s&s fantasy. Though, hrmm. Now I'm in a tizzy.
As for historical fiction, I don't think that is exactly fantasy in a whole sense. It may be complete fabrication of an author's mind, but it has ties to actual events that took/take place in our own realistic history, not of a fantasy world. Though, no doubt some authors borrow from our history to make compelling fantasy.

The question I guess is, if a work is centered in, or has ties to a myth or fairytale of historical value (things like: Arthurian Legends, Avalon, Atlantis, Grimm Tales, Greek Mythology, etc), is it really and wholly 'fantasy'? Because, let's say someone writes as to what happens after a myth takes place, such as, after King Arthur dies in the Arthurian Legends, and writes on from there. Their work depends amazingly on the bits here and there that are commonly agreed upon as being 'Arthurian', but they are making everything aftrewards in their writing their own design.

Then the whole debate of magical realism, where obviously magical things pop into blalantly realistic scenarios, and I can make the moon come out at noon and the sun appear for a short time during midnight.
The trick I guess with magical realism, is that the whole 'magic' thing has to appear somewhat unforced. That the figures or whatever in the story are pretty comfortable with the 'marvelous reality' of things.

Still, I think the 'fantasy' in this case deals more on the lines of high fantasy or more to do with worlds where there is very little or some ties to real world things (undoubtibly these include ethics, philosophy, 'good' vs. 'evil', etc which appear all the time in fantasy, but were of reality based creation).

Now I have to go think over a list, argh. The choices...

~ Musing Again Ka

[Lalwendë]

Nogrod, The Ka - if you can argue for something being 'fantasy' then you go for it! Makes for a more interesting list and we have a lot of genre-bending these days. In any case, I often think of Magic Realism as Fantasy for the Intelligentsia so feel free I reckon for example The House of the Spirits (a marvellous novel) is verging on fantasy, so if you chose that, then this would be OK - and after all, it is not for me to say what is and what is not fantasy, is it, if you could coherently argue for it?

...such pondering might even make for an interesting thread of its own...

[Aganzir]

I don't read very much fantasy nowadays, and many of the books I've read recently have been by some unknown Finnish authors. Apart from Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell and Robin Hobb books which didn't make it into my top5, I suppose these are all the fantasy books (or, to be more accurate, authors) I could recommend to someone... And I must admit it was a little surprising to notice there were so few of them.

1. The Silmarillion - Tolkien
It was hard to decide whether to place the Silmarillion or the Lord of the Rings on top. But of all Tolkien's works, I love the Silmarillion most. I'm not going to compare the stories of the Lotr and Sil with each other, but the way the Silmarillion is written is something amazingly beautiful.
Another, though quite vague a reason to choose the Silmarillion: Lotr is a book that has to be read through (and I don't know if any others have the same problem, but I've read it so many times that nowadays it takes ages to read it again), but of the Silmarillion it is possible to read only one or a couple of chapters, whatever I feel like at the moment, without reading the whole book, and without the stories losing their grip. That's sometimes more comfortable than reading the whole book.

2. City of Saints and Madmen - Jeff VanderMeer
Again, a problem. Veniss Underground by the same author is a wonderful novel also, but I've grown to love the intensity and the extraordinary ideas of the stories in City of Saints and Madmen. That man is a genius.

3. Earthsea - Ursula LeGuin
It's a while since I read them... And I have only read the first three books; I liked them a lot and don't want to risk losing the image I have by reading the newer ones. Especially as my little brother complained they weren't as good as the original thrilogy.
Generally, I like LeGuin's scifi stories more than fantasy, but Earthsea is an exception. Simple but ah so subtle and beautiful.

4. The Wolf's Bride - Aino Kallas
A werewolf story by a 20th century Finnish author. I'm not sure if this should be classified as fantasy or rather a folktale, but I think I can include it, as there definitely are fantastical elements. I was 8 when I read it for the first time, and fell in love immediately.

5. The Moomin books - Tove Jansson
I've loved them since I was a child of 3 or 4- my mother used to read them to me, and I read them also myself when I learned to read. It's peculiar (but not surprising) how many layers and different aspects I can now see in the same books I read and enjoyed even as a child. And they don't feel childish at all.

[davem]

Ok, briefly...

1) Lord of the Rings

2) Lud in the Mist by Hope Mirlees. Fantastic fairy tale in the English tradition.

3) Time & the Gods by Lord Dunsany. Beautifully written tales of the fantastic, & a whole new mythology pre-Tolkien.

4) The Broken Sword by Poul Anderson. Appeared in the same year as LotR & drawing on the same sources of Norse & Celtic myth.

5) Lyonesse trilogy by Jack Vance. Beautiful, clever, amazingly sharp, smart, funny, & in terms of scale & perfection the next best thing to LotR, yet totally different. ("The single remaining warrior rode pell-mell down into the swale, where the Kaber warriors cut off first his legs, then his arms, then rolled him into the ditch to ponder the sad estate to which his life had come.")

Then again, ask me tomorrow & I might come up with a different list...

[Nogrod]

In the spirit of Davem "ask me tomorrow & I might come up with a different list..." And I have tried to stay with the "more easily seen as a fantasy" -stuff.

J.R.R. Tolkien: Silmarillion
- That's just amazing what he came up with after a long study and years and years of creating. You know it and I don't need to explain further.

Iain M. Banks: The Culture novels (Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games, Use of Weapons, Against a Dark Background, Excession, Look to Windward)
- If this is not fantasy then what is? Even if Banks' world isn't quite as minutely constructed it's believable and fascinating in its own right. And just look at the characters! The newest, Algebraist, even if not a Culture novel was a really enjoyable read as well!

Jonathan Swift: Gulliver's Travels
- Not so much the lilliputs (or whatever they are in English, those little people) but fex. the island of the Horses... One of the first fantasy novels ever. Voltaire's Mikromegas if fun too... Well, depending on what you count as one.

Robert Holdstock: Mythago Wood and the two first sequels to it (Lavondyss, The Hollowing)
- I lost count in one moment or another whether a novel or another still was to be counted in - and they were not so good any more. Also there has been time since I read them so I'm not sure how I would react to them now. But to myself around 20 they were really fascinating.

Dan Simmons: Ilium
Sci-fi, Shakespeare, Proust and Greek myths collide. Sounds banal and stupid but isn't. Even if I strongly dislike the undercurrent of "prepare to fight" morality it's just an astonishing feat! I mean I really started looking for the maps of Mars while reading it just to find the places...

[THE Ka]

Sorry about that previous post, I became swept up in a wind of ponder.
Ugh, the choices. There are far too many books I could put that I have read continously or have found recently and enjoy so much, but I'll try to settle with five I really prefer.

1. The Hobbit - J.R.R. Tolkien

~ This for me, and probably many others, was my first Tolkien experience. Needless to say, I kept on reading! Still, it holds a special place in my heart, and the barrel incident, and all the riddles as well.
My 11 year old mind (and the questionable one now) thought Bilbo a genius of wit and love for travel/learning, with a good balance of being reasonable. Basically, a model mind to take inspiration from. No doubt I do really love Lord of The Rings, especially the first book, and all chapters involving Ents, but I would have to say that The Hobbit was what first had me hooked.

2. The Farthest Shore - Ursula K. Le Guin

~ First of all, I love the works of Le Guin absolutely, and am very glad my friend one day decided to lend the first in the series to me, or I'd never have known about it at ten years old or later.
I love this one the most out of the series, even though it isn't well known as the others. Mostly because, this isn't the typical Ged or his battles. There is so much taking place in the 'grey' that it keeps you wrapped in the story, there is no 'evil' or completely 'good' (which I adore in a story), but it is a wonderful development of fantasy writing. Plus, geography wise, there is far more shown at the rich cultures Le Guin created for all of the islands (and those that lived at the mercy of the open sea). Yes of course Ged is much different than earlier books, but the story shows that even if you are very young or old in years, matters of understanding self and wisdom can come at any age to anyone.

3. The Discworld Series - Terry Pratchett

~ Pratchett is a genius. Simple as that.
I've only come upon his works awhile ago, but now I am pretty much engulfed in it. Plus, Pratchett's works were the ones to finally win over my brother so he'd keep up with the act of reading just because you can, and want to. Something of which I have been trying for a long time to cause, with many works/authors. Another reason why he is a genius. Plus, no one makes a more convincing character of Death, a real triumph.
It seems very likely and believable that Pratchett's works are something that anyone can pick from to enjoy, or at least learn and get a good laugh out of.

4. Stardust - Neil Gaiman

~ Gaiman makes fairytales and pre-Tolkien something odd but new and yet he also makes it seem as if fairytales are supposed to be written like Stardust. All the 'traditional' elements are honored, but they are as believable as magical. In short, it is near impossible to imagine someone not laughing, but also impossible not to be drawn in so much that you realize the work is a category and honor of its own. I was a little upset at its treatment cinema-wise, but I definately recommend the work to be read and re-read again for good health.

5. The Mists of Avalon - Marion Zimmer Bradley

~ Found a copy of it in the bookcase after my dad picked it up in New Mexico of all places (geographically, complete opposite of the mystical and wet Avalon...). At first I was a little deterred by the Arthurian aspect, since all the myths I had encountered before seemed to be much the same, this book showed the falsehood in assuming by cover. I loved it, mostly because I couldn't wholly 'hate' or 'love' any character in the book, it showed a side to the story that I hadn't pondered before, and gave a philosophical lesson as well concerning the nature of state, tradition and religion. Plus, no two characters are marginalized together or into the background, and character development is shown to the fullest, for either good or bad reasons. It's hard to say that there are a wealth of 'supporting characters', which is good.

Okay, that is it for my rambles. I'm going to look at everyone else's recommendations to boost my library up a bit, because it needs it. There are never enough books...

~ Literally, Literary Ka