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04-11-2007, 02:08 AM
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#721 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,385
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C'mon!
Do you need more hints?
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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04-11-2007, 06:47 AM
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#722 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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I can't seem to find any plausible answer, so yes, I'll take another hint
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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04-12-2007, 03:51 AM
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#723 |
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: somewhere far away
Posts: 561
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Is it Glaurung?
You hate me,though you should love me, I killed many of you, that I see, Don’t have to explain this part I think but without me you wouldn't be there. After the last big battle the Noldor was defeated, but there defeat eventually pity’s the Valar enough to aid them against Morgoth. I know you still look this way. Blame your kinsmen, I say. Maybe the battle would have gone better for the Noldor if Orodreth would have send more man to help the sons of Feanor.
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Since there is no time like the present, I thought it was time to present the present. |
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04-12-2007, 05:40 AM
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#724 | ||
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,385
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Sorry, Estanesse, you're not correct.
 You hate me, though you should love me, I killed many of you, that I see, but without me you wouldn't be there. I know you still look this way. Blame your kinsmen, I say. The one who speaks is not a person. Also Quote:
Quote:
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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04-12-2007, 09:00 AM
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#725 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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I think I have it...what of the Helcaraxe?
You hate me, though you should love me, - of course they hate it I killed many of you, that I see, - during their journey but without me you wouldn't be there. - in Middle-earth I know you still look this way. - westward, or perhaps hoping to find a way to return to Aman Blame your kinsmen, I say. - the Noldor for stealing the ships and then burning them...I always wondered why they really did that 
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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04-13-2007, 03:01 AM
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#726 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,385
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Finally!
Bravo, TM. Please take the thread.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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04-13-2007, 03:18 AM
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#727 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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...I like answering riddles, but not asking them...
In my life There is no love, no fire For there is no man That she would desire I hope someone answers it soon...
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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04-13-2007, 05:55 AM
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#728 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Hmm... it's quite meta-thing, but maybe it could be Tilion who is speaking? And he's speaking of Arien, this would explain the fire.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-15-2007, 08:27 AM
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#729 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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...well...correct!
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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04-15-2007, 01:36 PM
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#730 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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For so long time I'm here
though not from start of times. In greatest treachery I at first took my part. I saw how Darkness comes, I saw how it departs. I saw how it returns, I saw the death of stars, I saw corrupted hearts. Once They will come to me to undo treachery at that day, it all ends I'll die by my own hands.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-15-2007, 01:57 PM
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#731 |
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Pittodrie Poltergeist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 659
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Is it Arda, Legate?
For so long time I'm here: It's been around a pretty long time I guess though not from start of times. It was created the ainur etc In greatest treachery Is it the corruption in Arda by Melkor which led to the damage in Elvish's hroa and the like I at first took my part. I saw how Darkness comes For all this - its the world I suppose it see pretty much every thing I saw how it departs. I saw how it returns, I saw the death of stars, I saw corrupted hearts. Once They will come to me - Eru and the ainur to undo treachery - Melkor's at that day, it all ends I'll die by my own hands. I'm not sure about the end myth...
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As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering. |
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04-15-2007, 01:59 PM
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#732 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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Just as I wanted to post, I noticed hwaim's post and he gave the same answer I was planning to give.
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
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04-15-2007, 02:11 PM
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#733 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Really nice attempt, though I sadly have to disappoint you, it is not Arda. But good attempt, keep trying.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-15-2007, 04:41 PM
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#734 |
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Psyche of Prince Immortal
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
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Illuvatar comes to my mind but knowing you legate it is never the obvious anwser...
For so long time I'm here - been here forever though not from start of times. In greatest treachery - Morgoths "betrayal" I at first took my part. - talked with Morgoth I saw how Darkness comes, - melkor's anger I saw how it departs. - melkor being chained I saw how it returns, - melkor took the silmarils I saw the death of stars, - mean alot of things I saw corrupted hearts. - men and elves doing cruel things Once They will come to me - gods wil lcome to undo treachery - solve it all at that day, it all ends I'll die by my own hands. - the song will be finished
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Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
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04-16-2007, 12:53 AM
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#735 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Ilúvatar? No, no... you would say that he was not there "from start of times"? Also he didn't take part in Morgoth's treachery (he couldn't obviously, since the treachery was against him). And finally, I don't think Ilúvatar will "die by his own hands". The subject is still the same during all the riddle.
I suggest you all to try something "smaller" for a change 
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-16-2007, 07:55 AM
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#736 | |
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Odinic Wanderer
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Under the Raven banner, between tall Odin and white Christ!
Posts: 4,075
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Is it Sauron then?
It would sertainly explain "die by my own hands" as he forged the one ring and when it is destroyed he dies. . . maybe a strech, but I think it works. He has been around for a long while He has supported Morgoth, but not from the begining. The treachery could also be when the Numenorians attack aman. . .and Sauron did his part there as werll. . .that would add perfectly up when they come to undo treachery.
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04-16-2007, 10:00 AM
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#737 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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I would say the Moon
For so long time I'm here - since the beginning of the First Age though not from start of times. - of course In greatest treachery I at first took my part. - the first rising of the Moon marked the Return of the Noldor to Middle-earth I saw how Darkness comes, I saw how it departs. I saw how it returns, I saw the death of stars, I saw corrupted hearts. - not hard to see everything from up there Once They will come to me to undo treachery - Melkor will destroy the Moon and the Sun before the Dagor Dagorath at that day, it all ends I'll die by my own hands. - not so sure about this
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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04-16-2007, 10:20 AM
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#738 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Very good attempts, especially Rune's. Sauron it could be, except for one problem - he surely was there even "at the start of times".
And the Moon... I wouldn't be so sure if rising at the moment of the coming of Noldor should be considered as taking part in their treachery, as well as if undoing the treachery would have any effect on the Moon... So, keep trying. Though with some thoughts you were pretty close.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-16-2007, 10:27 AM
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#739 | |
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Odinic Wanderer
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Under the Raven banner, between tall Odin and white Christ!
Posts: 4,075
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Now I want to say Gollum, but I cannot make it fit and I have no time as I have to be at work in 30min. . .
I must look it over when I get home again, hopefully it will bit have been guessed by then.
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04-16-2007, 11:23 AM
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#740 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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I can tell you Gollum it is not, though don't let it stop you in your thinking...
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-20-2007, 05:01 AM
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#741 |
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Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,992
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You make it seem as if it's one person, but perhaps this is a trick? My guess is the race of men.
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Los Ingobernables de Harlond |
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04-20-2007, 06:22 AM
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#742 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Interesting idea, quite inventive, I must say. But no. I won't be so sure what the "treachery" would stand for, then, because it would be "undone" at the time they "die by their own hands" (???)
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-20-2007, 07:05 AM
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#743 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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I believe I was wrong in thinking it was linked to the Dagor Dagorath so long
I would say it's Ungoliant For so long time I'm here - Long time in Arda though not from start of times. - She came from the Outside Darkness at a certain time In greatest treachery I at first took my part. - Served Melkor in the beginning I saw how Darkness comes, - The coming of Melkor to ask her for help I saw how it departs. - Towards the Trees I saw how it returns, - His return to Valinor I saw the death of stars, - Maybe the death of the Trees I saw corrupted hearts. - The Elves or Melkor... Once They will come to me - the balrogs to undo treachery - her treachery to Melkor; trying to take the Silmarils from him at that day, it all ends - afterwards she passes South and doesn't trouble anyone anymore (or at least we know this not) I'll die by my own hands. - she devoured herself
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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04-21-2007, 02:14 AM
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#744 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Interesting, interesting! Though it's not still what I am looking for. For further reasoning, I might add that "saw" means always only "being present at the time when this and this happened", but not taking part in it. (E.g. Ungoliant not only "saw" the Trees, but she also killed them. She not only saw Morgoth depart, but she went with him. "Saw" means no interaction.)
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-21-2007, 05:43 AM
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#745 |
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Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,992
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Maedhros?
The treachery is the whole Silmaril deal, and he does kill himself in the end.
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Los Ingobernables de Harlond |
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04-21-2007, 10:22 AM
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#746 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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And who would be They who come to him to undo the treachery? But no, it's not Maedhros.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-21-2007, 10:59 AM
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#747 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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After this last post, I think I have an idea who They are...maybe the Grey Company
Which means the answer is the King of Dead For so long time I'm here - a long time in the mountains though not from start of times. - of course In greatest treachery I at first took my part. - betrayed Isildur and didn't answer his summons I saw how Darkness comes, - the first coming of Sauron I saw how it departs. - after the defeat during the War of the Last Alliance I saw how it returns, - Sauron's return I saw the death of stars, - hmm...not really sure what to say here I saw corrupted hearts. - all his folk Once They will come to me - the Grey Company to undo treachery at that day, it all ends - his life I'll die by my own hands. - by fulfilling Aragorn's oath he dies and has peace
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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04-21-2007, 11:05 AM
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#748 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Quote:
 Though there are some points in your riddle where you are nearing the truth.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-21-2007, 11:20 AM
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#749 |
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Psyche of Prince Immortal
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 5,054
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I'm thinking Elrond
For so long time I'm here - hes an elf thats been here for quite a bit (more then 3000 years) though not from start of times. - well yeah everyone knows that In greatest treachery I at first took my part. - could be when Doriath was sacked by SoF I saw how Darkness comes, - the first coming of Sauron I saw how it departs. - after the defeat during the War of the Last Alliance I saw how it returns, - Sauron's return I saw the death of stars, - could mean the fall of the line of Numenor I saw corrupted hearts. - corrupted hearts of men Once They will come to me - the Fellowship to undo treachery at that day, it all ends - the final evil in this world I'll die by my own hands. - hmmm... could be just leaving for the undying lands... tell me if i'm close
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Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
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04-21-2007, 11:32 AM
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#750 | ||
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Well, unfortunately, not much. Maybe somewhat in something... but...
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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04-23-2007, 02:24 AM
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#751 |
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Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,992
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Ah yes, sorry. I should be answering properly like these good fellows.
Incidentally, it would be the host of the Valar who came to Maedhros after the War of Wrath.This is a beast of a riddle, Legate.
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Los Ingobernables de Harlond |
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04-23-2007, 09:26 AM
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#752 |
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Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,287
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Maybe Feanor
For so long time I'm here - in the Halls of Mandos though not from start of times. - indeed In greatest treachery I at first took my part. I saw how Darkness comes, - Melkor chained I saw how it departs. - as he left I saw how it returns, I saw the death of stars, - and destroyed the trees with Ungolioant I saw corrupted hearts. - his own among others Once They will come to me to undo treachery - to give Yavanna the Silmarils at that day, it all ends - maybe the chance for peace I'll die by my own hands. - maybe a reference to his suicidal charge
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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04-23-2007, 12:59 PM
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#753 | |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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05-04-2007, 07:52 AM
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#754 |
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Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 33
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Hint may be in order
I think its been ten days. You may need to give a small hint to get this rolling again Legate.
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05-04-2007, 08:04 AM
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#755 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Surely I would. *scratches head*
Well... I suggest trying to look at this first: a) what can "the greatest treachery" be b) what can "the death of stars" be. Just separately, try to think of it. Think of all treacheries you know, and think of all events which could be described as "death of stars". And the events are chronological. So, we have general presentation (verse 1 and 2), and from then the timeline flows: some "greatest treachery" took place, then "Darkness came", then "Darkness departed", then "Darkness returned", then there was some "death of stars", then there were some "corrupted hearts" present. And at last, there will come some "They" to undo the previously named treachery, and "at that day, it all ends - I'll die by my own hands". I hope it helps.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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05-09-2007, 01:24 PM
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#756 |
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Playful Ghoul
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,257
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Hmn, I'm going to take a stab at this. Galadriel? I'm not convinced I'm right, but I might as well try.
For so long time I'm here - in Beleriand/Middle-Earth though not from start of times. - of course not. In greatest treachery I at first took my part. - Following the Noldor out of the Undying Lands I saw how Darkness comes, - Morgoth in the 1st age I saw how it departs. - Morgoth defeated I saw how it returns, - Sauron returned I saw the death of stars, - The Silmarils lost, and/or Gil-galad killed I saw corrupted hearts. - Isildur/Saruman/Smeagol corrupted by the Ring. Once They will come to me - the fellowship to undo treachery - when she refused the Ring, the ban was lifted at that day, it all ends - the diminishing of the elves in ME? I'll die by my own hands. - passing into the West, at last
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"Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green." |
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05-09-2007, 11:59 PM
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#757 | |
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Odinic Wanderer
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Under the Raven banner, between tall Odin and white Christ!
Posts: 4,075
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wow that is good. . . even if it is not what Legate had in mind, I still think it deserves to be accepted
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05-10-2007, 12:10 AM
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#758 |
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Playful Ghoul
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,257
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Hehe, thank you. I labored long thinking about it though, and it was the best I could produce... everything else to hit my brain was already suggested.
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"Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green." |
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05-10-2007, 03:26 AM
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#759 |
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A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,606
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Yes, I have to agree, it's very, very very nice, though, it's not what I had in mind, unfortunately. But it's quite inventive, I suggest you keep trying. The moment where I cannot accept your explanation is the last line, "I die by my own hands". This does not mean departing to the West or something like that: this means really total end to the existence, not just disappearing to some Undying lands or something like that.
P.S. AND I really suggest you continue in trying, Beregond, because your riddle contains two moments where your interpretation was completely precise, and these were quite crucial moments. I think you just need to decide and make clear some things, and you might as well be near the answer.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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05-10-2007, 06:13 AM
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#760 |
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Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,385
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Possibly Maedhros?
The greatest treachery = the rebellion of the Noldor and the Oath of Fëanor The middle part = pretty much summarizing the Sil They = Valar, Host of Aman "at that day, it all ends/ I'll die by my own hands" - Maedhros and Maglor steal the Silmarils, they are allowed to keep them and Maedhros dies "by his own hands" when casting himself to the chasm ...?
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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