Weres of Eire: Game Thread

[Kath]

Am I really the only person around? Okay ... voting time. Voting Brinniel obviously isn't going to do any good so it's between Nogrod and Sauce.

++NOGROD

Because Sauce is too useful an innocent when alive. I know, I know, I'm arguing my own point back at myself. But I find it so hard to form an opinion about Noggie, and I'm quite sure that if I don't vote for him toDay I will spend most of tomorrow either regretting it or finding myself arguing in circles. Assuming I'm alive of course.

[The Saucepan Man]

Aargh! You are not listening to the cards, those innocent Irelanders among you!

My vote for Lommy was not thrown out for a reaction, though my earlier posts were, admittedly. They achieved that which I intended of them. I shall not give a reason for my vote just yet. Perhaps toMorrow, should I survive, but I suggest that people just read Lommy's posts, in context. Rikae and Nogrod look to have caught on to part of it. Although Nogrod, through his standard tendency to keep in the game those he wishes to play with, has unfortunately mis-voted. I hope that it does not bring his downfall, for I find him likely innocent.

And it looks to me, from more recent contributions, that the cards spoke true of Lommy's companions. Brinniel and Kath are the other two to watch, mark my words.

I am not sure now how much longer we have. One hour or two? But I am content to let my vote lie where it currently stands.

[The Saucepan Man]

OK, the votes currently stand as follows:

SpM - Lommy (Lommy 1)
Eolin - Nogrod (Lommy 1, Nogrod 1)
Lommy - Eolin (Lommy 1, Nogrod 1, Eolin 1)
Brinniel - SpM (Lommy 1, Nogrod 1, Eolin 1, SpM 1)
Nogrod - Isabellkya (Lommy 1, Nogrod 1, Eolin 1 SpM 1, Isabellkya 1)
Kath - Nogrod (Lommy 1, Nogrod 2, Eolin 1 SpM 1, Isabellkya 1)

Yet to vote: Durelin, Menel, Rikae, Isabellkya

Nogrod, I currently believe more likely innocent than not.

According to Shasta's last post, we less than 30 minutes to go. I am prepared to change my vote to either Kath or Brinniel, or to let it stand where it currently lies.

We should avoid a tied vote and the randomness of fate.

So who's out there?

[Rikae]

Sorry not to give an explanation now - real life intervenes.

++Saucepan Man

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I find it odd that SPM places Kath in the suspicious category before she even has the chance to speak.

The cards never lie.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

And his vote for Lommy...I cannot see a good reason behind it. Perhaps he could give us more explanation...

I could, but I won't. Not for now.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I would not like to lynch EC on the first day without a good reason, since they play so rarely and it's a pleasure to play with them ...

Yet you still voted for them without good reason. I would have thought that my "unreasoned" vote for you would give you a better reason to vote for me than them.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I've reread Sauce's posts and they don't seem so suspicious anymore.

Oh really. Why is that then? Perhaps because you don't want to vote for one who has voted for you?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Reading through the posts, the most alarming - or just the strangest - thing I can see is Lommy's behavior. Accusing those who accuse in jest is a classic wolf blunder - one I would consider too obvious, though, for either an evil or good Lommy to fall into.

Yes, that's part of it. But there is more.

Originally Posted by Rikae

SPaM's post seems to involve something more than banter - perhaps an excessive friendliness ...

Funny, because Lommy accused me of being "aggreeable". Yet I find that I have been distictly unagreeable and distinctly unfriendly thus far.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nogrod even mentions not wishing to vote for someone who is amusing - while I understand it, this could be deadly in such a small group.

Quite so. His vote for Izzie was absurd and unhelpful. But that's a Day 1 Noggie for you.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

SPM is the only one I can draw suspicion from based on reasons I stated earlier. It would be a shame to lose him so early if he is innocent, but then again, he can be quite the treacherous baddie. And since I am out of time, I must rush and make my vote.

Bad, bad Brinn. But perchance this vote will not go well for you.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I am a bit worried with Lommy's way of apologising her vote almost to excession.

Quite so. You should go woth your instincts, not with who you wish to see in the game in the Days to come.

Originally Posted by Kath

Perhaps it is the lack of a role as an outlet for her madness but her random accusations actually had some sense to them!

Surely you are not serious here. I doubt that even Durelin would agree with you on this one.

Originally Posted by Kath

Lommy - good first post talking about the possible number of wolves and also about the no execution thing.

Yes, a great first post, if you don't mind people who state the obvious just to look like they are saying something helpful ...

Originally Posted by Kath

Pretty normal for him by the look of things.

My posts have been anything but normal for me thus far. And intentionally so.

Originally Posted by Kath

Only problem is, he gave both the good and bad points of each card, thereby covering his back and not giving particularly definitive answers.

Yes, that was rather the point.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well done Rikae, now the choice is probably between two innocents. Gah! Listen to the cards, you people!

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, I know that I am innocent. I reckon that Nogrod probably is, but I cannot be sure. So I have no choice.

-- THINLOMIEN

++NOGROD

[Shastanis Althreduin]

No more posting, voting, etcetera. You've executed Nogrod. Plot will be combined with the Night 1 plot. Wolves and other assorted baddies, it's your turn now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Execution, Day 1

"For the thousandth time, I see no reason not to lynch the quiet early on, for they may become a danger later!" Nogrod yelled, staring down a recalcitrant group.

"Yes, but wouldn't it make more sense to execute someone capable of making mistakes with their loudness, like... you, for example?" Rikae inquired silkily, shooting covert glances at Durelin, standing behind Nogrod, holding a rock.

With a nod from Rikae, Durelin let the rock fly. No ordinary human would have heard the rock, much less diverted it, but...

Nogrod whirled, lightning fast, and struck the rock from the sky with a mighty blow. His face went pale as he realized he'd been tricked.

"Gotcha," Rikae proclaimed, with a gleam in her eye, as the rest of the camp started crowding Nogrod.

"No... I - You don't understand, you... this... NO!"

A flash of light, and Nogrod was human no more. Instead, on two feet, stood a vaguely canine humanoid with silver fur. An ancestor of the Irish Wolfhound, perhaps?

Nogrod turned on his paws and tried to run away, but a rock struck him in the back of the head and he turned, snarling. Isabellkya threw another rock with precise aim, landing right in the wolf's eye. Momentarily blinded, Nogrod never saw Espiem standing there with a kettle of boiling oil in his hand, and a maniacal look in his eye.

"FWOOSH."

Night 1

The night came, and everyone bedded down. One person, however, couldn't sleep. They got up and decided to do some stargazing. Finding a high point on this plain was no easy task, but some distance away, there was a pile of boulders. Surely there, the sky would seem brighter.

They climbed to the top and settled, gazing up at the stars, a dreamy smile on their face. Their concentration was soon shattered, though, by an unearthly wail that seemed to come from all around. The watcher sat up and looked around, but the wailer could not be seen. Shivering with a deathly sense of foreboding, the would-be stargazer ran back to the safety of the camp and huddled in their blankets, praying for morning.

Thinlomien was awoken by the stargazer's mad dash for safety. Deciding to leave them alone, she noticed that the fire was burning slowly down. With no firewood available close by, she'd have to go down to the copse to get more, or there'd be no fire in the morning. Sighing, she trudged down that way.

No one heard her scream.

The camp awoke the next morning with one person shivering in fear, and Thinlomien missing. Durelin and Brinniel followed her footsteps to the firewood copse.

Everyone heard them scream.

They rushed down to see a grisly sight. Thinlomien had taken the axe with her to cut some firewood, but it hadn't done her any good against what had... savaged her. In the end, she looked to be impaled on her own axe. There was no fanfare, no magical mist, no nothing... just the murdered body of Thinlomien.

The camp settled under a slight haze of mourning and dread, and began to talk amongst themselves about the night's events.

The Shining:
Rikae
Brinniel
Eolin
Durelin
Meneltarmacil
Espiem
Isabellkya
Kath

Forever Dimmed:

Nogrod: Boiled In Oil Day 1 - Werewolf
Thinlomien: Savaged And Axed Night 1 - Ordo

[Isabellkya]

I must apologize about yesterDay, I had been up quite past my bedtime and over slept. Then I was enraptured by a book and a game for a number of hours.

Here are my thoughts concerning yesterDay.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Those ten that had been there began shouting and demanding answers, what was going on, what was happening, who was he? But under cover of behaving similarly, several of them knew exactly what was going on, what was happening, who he was.

This definitely leads me to the belief that there are two – three “wolves”.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Some of you do not belong here. For some of you, your time has passed into the mists. There is nothing here for you. However, I have not the power to force you out. Instead, we will see just how well you pass in this increasingly-nonmagical world. If you manage to reclaim your land... well.

This leads me to the belief that those who are the “wolves” are the magical-folk that should be passing from our world into the mists; but have not.

Originally Posted by Shasta

The boy looked at each of the ten. Mist began to swirl around one of them, entering the body and glowing for a moment, before settling to normal astonishingly quickly. The boy smiled.

"The land itself has taken a hand, it seems. Well and good..”

This leads me to the belief that there is someone/something who has been possessed or taken over by the spirit of the land, I guess would be an accurate description of what I am thinking. The boy refers to it as ‘well and good’; so my thinking is that is this a reference to a gifted? Or to someone who is acting upon the wishes of the land, and is not taking sides in the feud?


These were my thoughts while sleeping out the night, and waiting for ToDay to dawn.

Good aim on eliminating Nogrod on Day 1. I shall go now and sift through his posts, to see if anything can be found.

[Durelin]

Well cool.

Okay, so I do have some explaining to do, I guess - I went to visit my grandmother yesterday and thought I would return home before the deadline because we usually don't stay all that long. However, we stayed later than usual, so...yeah. I regret not being able to vote.

Ah well, eh? Probably would have just messed things up anyway.

Wow...I've forgotten what to do with these Days-above-the-number-one...what to do, what to say....

So, is anyone freaked out about this:

Originally Posted by Shasta

Wolves and other assorted baddies, it's your turn now.

...Egh. I do hope we have some uber goodies on our side...

Anyway... For now, I am willing to assume that Espiem and Kath are not wolves, at least. And Eomer, though not as strongly. Of course, we apparently have 'other assorted baddies' to worry about, too.

I wait on Rikae's explanation of her vote with interest...

Oh, and Shasta is quite right - no ordinary human would be able to escape my rock-filled fury. *eyes the village*

[Meneltarmacil]

One wolf down already, eh? Let me see what this says about everyone...

Kath is almost certainly innocent, given that she was pretty suspicious of Nogrod and her vote put him first in line for the gallows.

Eomer and Cailin are probably innocent too, given their vote for Nogrod was the first for him.

I think I have a good idea of what Saucepan was looking for (and found) with Lommy. He picks up on the thought that she has some idea of how many wolves there are. He then attempts to get her to tell what, precisely, led her to think that there were three wolves among us. When she can't come up with enough to suit Sauce, he votes for her.

As for how well-reasoned this plan was...
Well, Lommy, to my knowledge, is not very experienced at playing a wolf, so she may well have made a blunder early on. However, I find Sauces immediately jumping on her to be rather out of place for him. It's possible she genuinely did see something in the narration, and he took advantage of this to portray her as a wolf.

His vote at the end is for Nogrod but that doesn't particularly help his case as it was a vote to save his own skin. I wouldn't put it past a Saucepan Wolf to vote for another wolf; this has the advantage of making him appear innocent. He portrays Nogrod as an innocent there, but I doubt even he could provide a good reason for suddenly changing his mind about someone he has been defending for the whole Day.

I admit that this is fairly shaky, though, and would like to hear what others think.

[Meneltarmacil]

Oh, and I predict that everyone will find me suspicious for using shaky reasoning to get Sauce out of the way early on in order to save my supposedly-wolfish hide.

[Durelin]

Actually I think that it is a good point, Menel. For some reason I was thinking because the tie would still only mean one of them would die Espiem-Wolf wouldn't have bothered changing his vote. But duh...if one of them is going to die anyway, one of them might as well get some brownie points for helping kill the other.

Still, I won't be jumping to conclusions. I want to explore other avenues first (such as those so-far unexplored...).

I'm being vague, yes. It's late.

[The Saucepan Man]

Hehe. How delicious that Noggie has joined the ranks of the Fenris at last.

Did I mention that no one should listen to the cards? The cards are rubbish.

I agree with the general view that Kath is most likely innocent. I highly doubt whether a Wolfish Kath would have voted for a Wolfish Noggie at that point. The same does not necesarily go for Eolin since, at the time they voted, a lynching of Noggie did not look particulatly likely (especially it being Day 1). However, I currently have no particular reason to distrust our Warrior of Finn.

Originally Posted by Durelin

I wait on Rikae's explanation of her vote with interest...

Me too. On the one hand, it could have been an attempt to save a fellow Wolf. But on the other hand, without her vote for me, it is unlikely that I would have changed mine and so brought about Noggie's lynching. It was clear from my posts that I was around at the time and a Wolfish Rikae would surely have been aware that I would change my vote, if pressed. On balance, I think it speaks more in favour of her being innocent.

Originally Posted by Menel

His vote at the end is for Nogrod but that doesn't particularly help his case as it was a vote to save his own skin. I wouldn't put it past a Saucepan Wolf to vote for another wolf; this has the advantage of making him appear innocent.

Yes, it was a vote to save my skin as I knew I was innocent but could not be sure of Nogrod. Any innocent would have done the same thing in my position, surely. As a Wolf, I would probably have left the votes where they lay and trusted to fate, rather than taking responsibility for knocking Noggie out of the game. The 'brownie point' bonus is limited given that, as you and Durelin have both pointed out, my vote for Noggie in no way clears me. Evidentially, I would suggest that it speaks neither the one way nor the other.

I am currently still rather suspicious of Brinniel, based on her behaviour yesterDay. However, as I got it so wrong about Lommy and (so it seems) Kath, I need to reread and reassess. No time to do that now, so I'll be back later to do it.

[Brinniel]

Alrighty, a look at yesterDay's voting:

SpM: ++Lommy (Lommy 1)
Eolin: ++Nogrod (Lommy 1, Nogrod 1)
Lommy: ++Eolin (Lommy 1, Nogrod 1, Eolin 1)
Brinniel: ++SpM (Lommy 1, Nogrod 1, Eolin 1, SpM 1)
Nogrod: ++Isabellkya (Lommy 1, Nogrod 1, Eolin 1 SpM 1, Isabellkya 1)
Kath: ++Nogrod (Lommy 1, Nogrod 2, Eolin 1 SpM 1, Isabellkya 1)
Rikae: ++SpM (Lommy 1, Nogrod 2, Eolin 1, SpM 2, Isabellkya 1)
SpM: --Lommy (Nogrod 2, Eolin 1, SpM 2, Isabellkya 1)
SpM: ++Nogrod (Nogrod 3, Eolin 1, SpM 2, Isabellkya 1)

Did not vote: Durelin, Menel, Isabellkya

A few thoughts on everyone mainly based on yesterDay's events:

Menel: Wasn't here on Day 1 for understandable reasons. He has made some interesting statements toDay, but it's not enough for me to form any sort of opinion on him yet.

Izzy: Her posts are vague, focusing a lot on the narration. Yet, Nogrod's vote for her makes me suspect her as innocent.

Rikae: Her vote for SpM alone seems suspicious...hopefully she'll be back soon to explain it. Other than that, I am still very unsure about her.

Kath: I agree her vote makes her seem more innocent than anything. But learning from previous games, I will not completely forget her and let a possible wolf slide by. While she's not high on my suspicions, I'd still like to keep an eye out on her.

Durelin: Her posts are brief and she doesn't give much explanation behind her thoughts of those she mentions. She's another question mark I'd like to watch closely.

Eolin (I think I'll switch names each Day for the fun of it ): They are a very strange character, no doubt about it. Their posts are all in-character with little substance...suspicions jumping from me to Lommy to Nogrod with little explanation behind it. I certainly won't eliminate the possibilty that the vote for Nogrod could be a wolf-on-wolf.

SpM: His many mistakes in judgement yesterDay could make him seem innocentish...but then again, they could just as easily be calculated out by a wolf. I still can't figure out why he voted Lommy, and he seemed so reluctant to change his vote for Nogrod, but had no choice in order to save his own skin (as already mentioned)...which can be a wolfish setup. I will definitely be keeping an eye out for him.

Ugh, there's a lot of uncertainty in my analysis, I realise that. It's really late and I need some sleep in order to clear my head. When I get up tomorrow, I'll take a closer look at Nogrod's posts and see if I can find any clues.

[Isabellkya]

After re-reading what had been said yesterDay, I have a few sentences to commit to my post. Then I will proceed to toDay.


Caomerilin, (hehe can be such fun mixing the names.) Nice to see you are in your role(s). I would like to hear those other reasons which you promised us about voting Nogrod yesterDay. They might be a mute point, however you seemed to hit the nail right on the head.

In reference to Kath's vote; I am wondering whether or not her vote for Nogrod was purely out of suspicious reasons, or was there some 'revenge' mixed in, as she seemed to focus more on Nogrod after he made his suspicions of her known.

After looking through a couple of Nogrod’s posts more finely, I definitely must laugh. He seemed to be pointing a direct arrow at himself, saying, “I AM A WOLF, VOTE FOR ME NOW.” Particularly when he said that Caomerilin looked more innocentish after having voted for him. As well as kind of not having a firm pointing finger of suspicion when it came to everyone else. Save for myself and Kath. I get the feeling that since I do not talk as much as others, (mainly due to time zone) that I end up being a pick for scapegoating.. an easy vote, with which the wolves can attempt to make a ‘case’ for and try to lobby others to follow suite. :P

In general, the people who had placed a vote, and refused to state reasons for it at the time; are a bit odd to me. Not necessarily suspicious, however it does raise my eyebrow.


The time has long passed for when I should be in slumber land. I will return tomorrow when my mind is more awake.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Doubt not the intuition of the Warriors of Finn.

We thought Nogrod seemed wolvish because he sought alliances with those he thought would figure prominently in the village discussion. There was nothing to suggest that we warriors were particularly trustworthy, but he seemed eager to appease us. Same goes for the late Thinlómien whom we were suspicious of too. Nogrod seemed more confident in this bargaining, whereas Thinlómien was more apologetic.

Difficulties arise with the question of the 'baddies'. It seems as though there is more than one collective of the seed of Goll son of Morna. If there was one team, then we could make fair assumptions about the innocence of, say, Kath. There has indeed been only one death last night, but it might be possible that there are two teams of beasts, only one of which gets the wicked satisfaction (perhaps by moderator's randomizer) of a nightly kill.

We wonder why Thinlómien was killed, especially seeing how she had garnered more suspicion than most. She could have been mistaken for a gifted of some sort, or she could possibly have been used to frame someone. Perhaps The Saucepan Man.

[Kath]

In reference to Kath's vote; I am wondering whether or not her vote for Nogrod was purely out of suspicious reasons, or was there some 'revenge' mixed in, as she seemed to focus more on Nogrod after he made his suspicions of her known.

Well as far as I know I wasn't voting him out of revenge, but it was nice to finally peg him as something! Usually I spend the whole game trying to work out what he is only to find that he's been completely innocent the whole way through.

Lommy's death makes sense to me. I think I can understand why some found her suspicious, as for a couple of hours yesterDay I actually thought she was Gifted (she made some reference to 'taking the best shot' or something similar, and I thought it might be a veiled Hunter clue) and Gifted's are too often mistaken for baddies. If the wolves saw something similar to that which I did in her posts that might explain why they went after her.

As to toDay, I find myself inclined to stick with the list I made yesterDay. Brinniel and Sauce. I still think it possible that they are working together.

I said yesterDay that Sauce was acting quite normally to me, to which he responded quite violently and said that he had a reason for appearing not normal at all. Perhaps it was some strategy to make sure he actually lived through the first Day (though I don't know really why he would worry about that, it's rare for him to be lynched quite so early). I don't know what it was, but still I think something is off about him. His 'won't make a decision one way or the other' post felt most out of character.

As for Brinniel. I can't really explain her. It may be this comment that keeps me suspicious of her today:

I agree her vote makes her seem more innocent than anything. But learning from previous games, I will not completely forget her and let a possible wolf slide by. While she's not high on my suspicions, I'd still like to keep an eye out on her.

There's a get out clause firmly wedged in there, and she's another who won't make a decision.

I'm quite set on these two as baddies, but by the look of Shasta's post last Night it looks as though there are others to watch out for so my bizarrely early certainty here won't stop me looking at everyone else. I'll have to wait til said everyone else has turned up and posted though.

[Rikae]

OK, my vote for SPaM - no incredible stroke of genius behind it, just the fact that, to me, the interaction between he and Lommy looked as though it had to contain at least one wolf. Both were too quick on the trigger in response to each other; it smacked of a wolvish attempt at...a diversion. As for Lommy, I became concerned that she might be more likely gifted, so I voted for my other suspect. I have to admit, I completely failed to see Nogrod's suspiciousness. Wie peinlich...

Today I've combed through Nogrod's posts for any sign of who the other wolf/wolves might be, but I fear he's too crafty for it to be much use.
Still - he seems to have attempted to scapegoat Izzy in a way that, perhaps, he wouldn't if she was a fellow wolf - there would be too much chance that it would work. He waffles on Dury, Brinn and Kath in a very homogenous fashion; a tried and true technique for hiding a fellow wolf. Kath's vote speaks for her innocence; of Dury he says:

Basic Day1 Dury-banter, makes joking suspicions and later answers to Isabell with a joke-analysis on Isabell (and not the prologue she was asked by Isabell if I got it right).

So?
She can be anything. I see nothing out of the ordinary here but she is very much able to use that as a cover as well.

This is odd - Dury's first post actually struck me as somewhat atypical. The conclusion amounts to hedging one's bets - that's all...

On Brinn:

Seems to be like she normally is as well, considerate and cool. Although one might say that she seems to prefer talking more about general issues than people around.

So?
Hard to say once again. She might be a baddie playing it safe for she sure could pull that presentation...

This looks slightly more like a wolf-hiding strategy to me that the Dury quote. "She might be a baddie" looks like suspicion without actually being suspicion; it's nothing but waffling like the Dury-waffle, but worded in such a way to make it LOOK stronger, and maybe create some distance between the wolves...

I'm also by no means reassured of SPaM's innocence toDay. I'd like to point out that his argument that "an innocent would do the same" is no argument at all; and his behavior up to the point of changing his vote could certainly be oonstrued as an attempt to save Nogrod.

[The Saucepan Man]

A few idle thoughts on what has been said since I was last here.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Izzy: Her posts are vague, focusing a lot on the narration. Yet, Nogrod's vote for her makes me suspect her as innocent.

The insubstantive nature of Isabelkya's posts troubles me too. And I would not put it past Noggie to vote for her, even if she is a Wolf too.

Originally Posted by Brinn

SpM: His many mistakes in judgement yesterDay could make him seem innocentish...but then again, they could just as easily be calculated out by a wolf.

Harsh, but fair. I blame those darned cards ...

Originally Posted by Brinn, again

I still can't figure out why he voted Lommy, and he seemed so reluctant to change his vote for Nogrod ...

It's rather beside the point now, so I won't dwell on it. Lommy's first few posts attracted my attention because the first gave me the impression that she was trying to look helpful without saying much of consequence, while the second seemed to make more than was reasonable out of the early banter (from Eolin and me). So I decided to accuse her aggressively and add a vote for good measure. In response she backed off from her suspicions of me saying she no longer found my posts suspicious and instead voted for Eolin with little reason, having earlier said that she would not vote for them without good reason, which to my mind simply confirmed my suspicions. I though it all added up to a rather good case, but it looks like Rikae had it right when she noted that it was all rather too obvious for a Wolfish Lommy.

And yes, just to compound my humiliation, I thought Noggie more likely innocent than not, even as I voted for him.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

In general, the people who had placed a vote, and refused to state reasons for it at the time; are a bit odd to me. Not necessarily suspicious, however it does raise my eyebrow.

You know, I am coming round to the view that there can be merit in voting without giving a reason, at least at the time the vote is cast. YesterDay, my intent was to see whether anyone else was thinking along the same lines as me about Lommy, without feeding them the lines. I am often accused of being (or of trying to be) too influential, so I am trying to tone down my lengthy and reasoned submissions. That said, the merit in requiring that votes be reasoned is that baddies will often have to construct reasons for the votes that they want to place, and that can help us spot them.

Originally Posted by Eolin

We wonder why Thinlómien was killed, especially seeing how she had garnered more suspicion than most. She could have been mistaken for a gifted of some sort, or she could possibly have been used to frame someone. Perhaps The Saucepan Man.

I don't doubt that part of the reason was to frame me. I reckon that our enemy (or enemies) think that they kight have a good chance of getting me lynched toDay. Unforunately, they might be right. I also think it quite possible that they thought she might be Gifted. She attracted a fair bit of suspicion, and that can often be the way with Gifteds, as Kath points out. Indeed, perhaps she was killed because I thought her guilty, given my knack of voting for Seers, thinking them to be Wolves.

Originally Posted by Kath

I said yesterDay that Sauce was acting quite normally to me, to which he responded quite violently and said that he had a reason for appearing not normal at all.

Well ... I think that 'violently' may be overstating it rather. And you are reading far too much into this. You said that you thought that I was acting normally. I disagreed that I was, because I was specifically intending to play far more aggressively and a lot less analytically than I normally do early in the game. It's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by Kath

I'm quite set on these two as baddies ...

Well, you are wrong about me. Which is rather a shame, as I think you most likely innocent. But you could be on the right scent with Brinniel.

Originally Posted by Kath

... but by the look of Shasta's post last Night it looks as though there are others to watch out for so my bizarrely early certainty here won't stop me looking at everyone else.

I'm not sure where you get this from. My reading is that the stargazer was a Gifted, possibly the Seer. There was one wailer, suggesting a single remaining Wolf (or Banshee) to me. It remains quite possible, however, that there is also a Cobbler, or some such thing, among us.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'd like to point out that his argument that "an innocent would do the same" is no argument at all;

And I would like to point out that I fully accepted this to be the case ...

Originally Posted by SpM

Evidentially, I would suggest that it speaks neither the one way nor the other.

[Kath]

I'm not sure where you get this from.

The bit where he said: 'wolves and other assorted baddies'. Now 'other assorted' appears to mean more than one other thing to me, but perhaps Shasta is just trying to scare us. Anyhow, that's where I got that from.

[Rikae]

Quite right, quite right Sauce; sorry.

Still, I want to make sure everyone notices *points at Sauce* POSSIBLE WOLF!!!!

Anyway. if I interpret correctly, Sauce, upon seeing a potential Brinniel-lynching in the works, adds his voice to it in the easiest way possible. I have no doubt that, if Brinniel is innocent, Sauce is guilty.

Does anyone remember my first werewolf game? Good times.

Let's get to the bottom of this, shall we?

++Brinniel

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Post #26

This is where, we believe, he starts including substance. He lists all the players and discusses them somewhat. He arranges them into 3 categories. Category 1 is Rikae and Menel. He notes that they haven't posted and spares them from his wrath; perhaps interesting given his infamous dislike of quiet players. Menel wasn't going to be around on Day One, but there was no such notice given by Rikae.

Category 2 includes The Warriors of Finn, SPM and Lommy. Players who he wanted to build alliances with in the hope of gaining influence. He didn't want to vote for any of these players, he simply singled them out.

Category 3 is his 'suspect list'. He listed Isabellkya, Durelin, Kath and Brinniel.


Post 34

He explicates his suspect list, and tries to build cases against the 4. He said that the strongest case, however slightly, was against Izzy and did go on to vote for her. He was vague about the others.


Post 36

Highlights again that he doesn't want himself, Lommy, SPM or Finn's warriors to go to the gallows. He wants to be friends with these players.


Post 37

Another categories post, where he changes his mind somewhat. Now Izzy and Kath are most suspicious, Lommy is now as suspicious as Durelin, and Brinniel is merely slightly worrying, alongside SPM, Rikae and Menel. Finn's Warriors are innocentish.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Kath

The bit where he said: 'wolves and other assorted baddies'. Now 'other assorted' appears to mean more than one other thing to me, but perhaps Shasta is just trying to scare us. Anyhow, that's where I got that from.

Ah yes. Good catch. At the time that was posted, there was no indication that Noggie was a Wolf (and I still thought him likely innocent), so I didn't read much into it. Yet Noggie's fate was already sealed. So, either there is more than one Wolf left among us or Shasta was playing with our heads. Either way, I think we probably have something like a cobbler too.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anyway. if I interpret correctly, Sauce, upon seeing a potential Brinniel-lynching in the works, adds his voice to it in the easiest way possible. I have no doubt that, if Brinniel is innocent, Sauce is guilty.

OK, so Rikae thinks either Brinn or I a Wolf and wants to lynch one of us to test the theory, while Kath thinks us both Wolves in league. Well, you can't both be right!

In any event, Rikae, I mentioned Brinniel's name toDay because I found her suspicious yesterDay but, given that I got almost everything else wrong, wanted to look back and reread/reappraise. Having done so, I think that my suspicion of her was largely based on my misguided conviction that Lommy was a Wolf. It seemed to me that there was some sort of alliance between them to direct suspicion onto the Warriors of Finn and me. I was also not entirely convinced by Brinniel's reasons for voting for me. So, while she is by no means cleared in my mind, my suspicions of her are somewhat lessened. No doubt you will think that very convenient, in light of your last post, but there we are.

I am off to look through Noggie's posts.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Izzy is likely innocent. We don't think Nogrod would have risked building a case against a fellow wolf so early and so consistently.

SPM is perhaps innocent. We think that if SPM & Nogrod were wolf allies then they would have made more of their traditional arguments. Instead we see them extending hands of friendship. Nogrod clearly wanted to be friends with SPM. He was, though, stabbed in the back somewhat.

Kath is probably innocent. Nogrod places her at the top of his suspect list for no apparent reason, seeming to exaggerate his views from #34 to #37.

Durelin is in his "some concerns" category partly because he was swayed by Rikae's comment on her posts. We think this makes Durelin look slightly guilty, because he is keeping her near the top of his suspect. Also, he doesn't want anything she might have done to slide by unnoticed and without criticism, because he doesn't want to be allied with her. So he disagrees with Rikae's criticism but still decides to give Rikae the benefit of the doubt; and is happy to put Durelin near the top of his list, without any real reason.

We are thinking that, if there are 2 other wolves, Nogrod would not place them on the same level of suspicion. So, let us consider Nogrod's "slightly worried about" category (#37), which is: SPM, Brinniel, Rikae and Menel. We think there is one wolf among them, and we consider SPM the least suspicious of those.

So: right now we think Durelin looks quite guilty, and with her probably Menel or Brinniel.

Rikae is perhaps less suspicious if Durelin is a wolf, because both Rikae and Nogrod debated reasons against Durelin.

So that's what we think right now. The Warriors of Finn have spoken. Heed their words.

[The Saucepan Man]

It seems that we’ve all benn looking back over Noggie’s posts.

In his first post (#8), he says:

I'd agree with Lommy here for I do think also that we probably have three wolves around.

Of interest because we are still wondering whether we have two Wolves yet to contend with, or just one. It’s difficult to know, however, whether Nogrod was telling the truth here, or seeking to mislead and, perhaps, spread fear.

In post #17, he says:

I think also that we need to be aware not to direct all our attention and / or suspicion over exactly those people who look like ones we could easily turn to - even if it is the easiest way for any individual in the confusion and guessing on Day1. It has many times resulted in hasty bandwaggon-lynching of an innocent with the negative effect that the baddies can safely ride with the tide and get lost in the crowd.

The sense is unclear, but I think that he was trying to steer people away from the loud ones. He makes the same point slightly later, in #35:

But what I'm afraid of is that we end up like so many times before lynching an outspoken innocent on Day1 just because it's so easy to vote for those who are talked about eg. those who have themselves said something that stirs discussion.

He seems to be referring primarily to Eolin, Lommy, himself and me, all of whom had received a vote at that time (see his post #36). I actually agreed with him at the time, but it he may have been trying to divert votes away, not just from himself, but also from a fellow Wolf. If so, from my perspective, it can only have been Eolin. Then again, it is typical of Noggie to try to keep the louder players in the game, even when they are against him, and he would certainly have wanted to dissuade any further votes for him.

Noggie’s post #34 bears reading in its entirety. He analyses each of those who he claims to be considering voting for: Izzie, Brinn, Durelin and Kath. I think it quite likely that there was a fellow Wolf in this list. I am not sure why he was looking at Kath at all, given that she had hardly posted (which supports my feeling that she is likely innocent). And, while I would not put it past him to have voted for a fellow Wolf, I tend to think that, if Izzie was his fellow, then his vote for her would have been too risky. As for the other two, I rather agree with Rikae that the words he used about both of them could well be those of a Wolf speaking of a fellow Wolf.

In #37, he lists his suspicions:

Here we go then.

I find suspicious:
Isabell - The silent ones are always hard to catch but the slip about being frightened might be the one to make it this time.
Kath - I always find her suspicious and am afraid of her as she can pass every radar and still get on with it.

I have some concerns:
Lommy - Because of what I mentioned above.
Dury - She's one of those one just can't say anything. So we should be very careful with her.

I'm slightly worried about:
Spm - He doesn't ring any alarms right now.
Brinniel - She doesn't ring any alarms right now.
Rikae - She doesn't ring any alarms right now.
Menel - He hasn't have had even a chance to raise any alarms this far.

I'm believing innocentish:
Cailmer - Look above for stated reasons.

Hmm, if I was a Wolf making a list like that, I would probably place my fellow (if only one) in the ‘some concerns’ or ‘slightly worried’ category.

As I said earlier, I think Rikae’s vote for me (which essentially prompted me to change my vote to Nogrod) was not the vote of a Wolf. Menel has not said a great deal so far, and what little he has said does not arouse my concerns. So, based purely upon Nogrod’s posts, I would conclude that either Brinniel or Durelin is a Wolf (but probably not both).

Of the two, I am inclined to suspect Dury more, because of Noggie’s placing of her in his list and the words he uses to describe her:

And Dury is crafty enough to look perfectly her normal self and still be a villain.

She's one of those one just can't say anything. So we should be very careful with her

Just sounds like a Wolf talking about a fellow Wolf to me.

[Durelin]

I must say you all have me sick to death of these 'if this, then that' arguments. There is absolutely no way for you to prove the premise 'if so-and-so is/isn't a wolf, then so-and-so #2 isn't/is a wolf', so give up trying to sound logical. This is 'Werewolf'.

Wow, I feel like TGWBS...

*snort* While you guys are pouring over Nogrod's-specially-encoded-list-positionings, I will be clutching at some at least more realistic straws.

I have a bad feeling about Rikae and Isabell.

Rikae's "if Brinniel, then not Espiem, but if not Brinniel then Espiem" bothers me, but what bothers me even more is her "let's get to the bottom of this", as if we are all on the same page, we've explored every other avenue, this is our only lead, this is the last piece of the puzzle...or something.

Eh? I mean, I don't feel like Brinniel is innocent, and I am definitely not loving Espiem right now, but...whatever.

Isabell's kind neutrality puts me off. But this particular thing bothers the heck out of me:

Originally Posted by Isabell

After looking through a couple of Nogrod’s posts more finely, I definitely must laugh. He seemed to be pointing a direct arrow at himself, saying, “I AM A WOLF, VOTE FOR ME NOW.” Particularly when he said that Caomerilin looked more innocentish after having voted for him. As well as kind of not having a firm pointing finger of suspicion when it came to everyone else. Save for myself and Kath. I get the feeling that since I do not talk as much as others, (mainly due to time zone) that I end up being a pick for scapegoating.. an easy vote, with which the wolves can attempt to make a ‘case’ for and try to lobby others to follow suite. :P

Yes, the whole thing. Look at it! It's an entire paragraph dedicated to a 'laughing off' sort of defense of her being a Wolf on Nogrod's list, explaining why he would pick her to be one of his top suspects. Uh...Nogrod's dead, we all know he was a Wolf...why so worried? Obviously at the top of a Wolf's suspect list is not where most people are looking for another Wolf.

However, I see that as entirely possible...so maybe your seemingly off-handed, 'oh, how funny' defense is preemptive but genuine and practical?

*wanders off to raise her bloodsugar*

[Meneltarmacil]

Regarding Brinniel, it is possible that she's a wolf. She doesn't really say much the first Day, preferring to discuss possible meanings of the narration. Her vote for Sauce when the votes could go any way seemed out of place to me if they were both Wolves, but Kath, in her first post, suspected a Wolf-on-Wolf there, and I would tend to treat Kath as being trustworthy at this point given her role in lynching Nogrod yesterday. Her reasoning makes some sense as well, and I would like to add that a risky maneuver like that, if successful, might be a good way for a wolf to cast off suspicion. SpM suspects Brinniel a bit toDay as well, but then suspects Durelin more, possibly a way of maintaining a pre-agreed wolf-on-wolf-plan like what Kath seems to have been thinking of. Focusing more attention on Durelin would help to keep people's attention off Isabellkya, a wise precaution to keep Brinniel safe after the death of Nogrod.

Also noteworthy is the fact that we have Nogrod hinting that Sauce's in-game comments make him look suspicious but then dropping the matter and keeping his fanged mouth shut, even going so far as to actively discourage suspicion on that basis. I've seen this type of tactic in Wolves before. One of them will notice that another is doing something suspicious, then gently hints that said activity be stopped while disguising it as honest suspicion. The difference withNogrod here is that Sauce didn't take his advice, as he mentions the cards again in his next post, so Nogrod tries to clean up the mess he's made before it gets worse.

So we have Nogrod the Werewolf possibly giving SpM hints, SpM and Brinniel suspecting each other to a certain extent, and SpM defending Nogrod throughout Day 1 (claiming he's innocent and posting suspicions of Kath.

[Meneltarmacil]

Aaaaaaaack! I meant to say "Brinniel" in paragraph 1, not "Isabellkya!"

[Durelin]

I would just like to add that in what I quoted of Isabellkya in my previous post, she expresses that 'it was so obvious that Nogrod was a Wolf', as if to assure us that 'I totally would have voted for Nogrod if I had been here'?

Originally Posted by Eomer/Cailin

Izzy is likely innocent. We don't think Nogrod would have risked building a case against a fellow wolf so early and so consistently.

Nogrod doesn't even mention 'Izzy' until his fourth post, and then only as part of a rather large list (considering the size of this village) of people he wants to look at.

When he does actually look at her, he says:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

She just might be a baddie although the grounds are pretty weak. But the best I have this far.

Which, when compared to what he has to say about the other three he looks at (myself, Brinniel, and Kath), isn't much different. He does conclude that post saying she is the most suspicious, though.

In his next post he lumps the same four together, and divides them between two lists: the more and the little less suspicious, it seems.

At least remaining, of course, consistent, he does vote for her. A Day 1 case and vote...probably would have been forgotten by toDay even if Nogrod was not killed and found out. Not much of a risk.

So, I did forget that he voted for her, but I definitely don't feel like it rules her out. The only person I am going to risk ruling out for now is Kath because of the placement of her vote.

*suddenly eyes Menel* Following Rikae's lead?

[Isabellkya]

Durelin, I was merely laughing at the perfect hindsight of it. I was not and am not saying that it was that obvious. Nor am I saying that I totally would've voted for Nogrod, had I been here to vote; as I read the Night plot before catching up on yesterDay's readings.

[The Saucepan Man]

Hey ho. What am I to make of the fact that Cailomer's interpretation of Nogrod's posts largely mirrors my own? Perhaps, given my track record thus far, I should be worried. On balance, though, I find that it inclines me to trust them more.

A greater cause for concern. Durelin is speaking decidedly good sense.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Rikae's "if Brinniel, then not Espiem, but if not Brinniel then Espiem" bothers me, but what bothers me even more is her "let's get to the bottom of this", as if we are all on the same page, we've explored every other avenue, this is our only lead, this is the last piece of the puzzle...or something.

This bothers me too. But I still find it unlikely that, with Nogrod on two votes and knowing that I was around, she would have drawn me level with him, if a Wolf. Surely she would have voted for someone else on one vote who was unlikely to return. That said, I most definately do not discount her possible Cobblerishness.

Her points on Isabellkya also make sense. However, Nogrod knows full well the tendency for the quieter participants to attract votes on Day 1. Accordingly, his vote looks more like scapegoating that Wolf-on-Wolf to me. That's not to discount her entirely, particularly as she does feel very non-committal, but there are others that I find more suspicious right now.

So why does the fact that Durelin is talking sense concern me? Well, it seems to have come about just as she is coming under some pressure.

In other news, we have Menel accusing me of being in league with Brinniel. Well, I am provided that she is innocent. But, given that she has recently reclaimed her position as one of my top suspects, I somehow don't really feel like I am in league with her at present.

As for Noggie supposedly dropping me hints to tone down my act, well if that's the best that you can come up with, I have nothing to fear.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

We think also that Menel or Brinniel is as wicked as Big-Fist the Siren. If Durelin should prove innocent, then Rikae may be another character to look at; but we are quite sure of this:

++DURELIN

We outlined our reasons earlier. Durelin shall be as Aed.

On the Barrow, by a sharp-pointed spear,
Aed, Fidga’s son, has fallen:
By the spear of Fiacal,
Finn has slain him.

Venom is this spear,
And venomous he whose it is,
Venomous whoever threw it,
Venom for him whom it laid low

So sayeth the Warriors of Finn.

[Durelin]

Have you considered, Espiem, that only Day 1 has passed, and rarely do I waste my time trying to make sense on Day 1? Sometimes I do choose to make sense after that. Sometimes I actually read (most of) the thread. Sometimes.

ToDay I chose to make sense because I only had one class.

Oh, and as I forgot to say earlier - please stop trying to pinpoint 'typical Durelin'. I don't know who she is or where to find her either, so you may as well give up.

Eomer/Cailin's short-minded sort of consistency bothers me (posts to explain who they think is suspicious, then posts to vote for who he/she said in previous post was suspicious...done), and the way he/she is remaining somehow detached reminds me of Cailin-wolf. Still, I won't go with a plain old retaliatory vote I don't think. There are so many other lovely people who are calling for me vote, too... *le sigh*

Sauce is not spell-checking his posts. I don't think he's a wolf at the moment.

What I believe to be possible Wolf pairs (assuming there are two wolves left, which I think we've pretty much decided) at the moment:

Isabellkya and Rikae

Menel and Rikae

Brinniel and Eomer

So many to choose, so little time and posting...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

A heads up:

At the deadline today, I'm going to be in a theatre meeting. I'm going to trust you guys to stop posting at the deadline, okay?

I believe Brinniel has one vote thus far, as does Durelin.

[Isabellkya]

As I must place a vote today, and we have little over an hour remaining; I will

++Durelin

as I find her top in my mind at the moment. As she says she is sick of the if this/then that style arguments. Yet pairs people together for possible wolf pairs; are those not if this/then that arguments?

[Meneltarmacil]

I suppose I might as well vote; my suspicions have already been mentioned.

++The Saucepan Man

[Kath]

So, my two suspects have a vote each, which to choose?

++BRINNIEL

Because I'm having trouble actually formulating an argument against her. I can't find reasons other than her indecisiveness, and much of my suspicion of Sauce actually rests on the assumption that these two are working together. That's not to say that if Brinniel turns out to be a mere Cobbler that Sauce isn't a wolf, there's still something there.