The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[Nerwen]

++ Túrin.

[Aganzir]

++Gimli

Neither of them is my special favourite but I like them both. However, Gimli is a dwarf. And he needs some love after being treated like that by PJ.

As a matter of fact, I might well have voted Túrin, but reading through your posts and especially skip's statement that he had found some Gimli parts in the movies funny swayed my vote towards Gimli.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

++Gimli
As a matter of fact, I might well have voted Túrin, but reading through your posts and especially skip's statement that he had found some Gimli parts in the movies funny swayed my vote towards Gimli.

Man, I knew I'd get into trouble for that. But come on, are you seriously suggesting that Aragorn tossing Gimli wasn't funny?

Fortunately, Turin did just enough to toss aside Gimli, despite stiff resistance from the little funny-man. It finished 8-8 but Nerwen's vote proved decisive in the end.

[skip spence]

Match 16 of round 1:

So for out final match of round one Beorn, the bulky, shape-shifting vegetarian will test his skills against Boromir's kid brother Faramir.

Faramir vs. Beorn

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Match 16 of round 1:

So for out final match of round one Beorn, the bulky, shape-shifting vegetarian will test his skills against Boromir's kid brother Faramir.

Faramir vs. Beorn

My signature line notwithstanding, ++Beorn, because being a werebear-berserker who slaughters orcs by the hundreds is just... cool.

[Morthoron]

++Beorn

Unlike Faramir, who is a sensitive metrosexual, Beorn likes to hang out with talking sheep and horses, and turns into a bear when he's angry. The dude is a literal party animal!

[Gollum the Great]

Wow. The saint-like character from LOTR and the ultimate orc-slayer duke it out. Heck, I like people who are honorable and selfless and all that sort of thing, but when it comes to being trapped in a small room with a squad of Uruk-hai closing around me...

++Beorn

[skip spence]

++Beorn

Don't really care for either character but it's hard not to vote for the big guy after that awesome picture.

[Groin Redbeard]

Beorn may be cool but he is not wise, learned, interesting and pleasant to read about. Faramir is all that Beorn isn't and more. Besides, if I remember correctly, Faramir was the character who Tolkien based himself on in the book.

++Faramir

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Faramir

Of course Book Faramir, not PJ's silliness.

[Strongbow]

++Beorn

I know this in my heart. Faramir rocks, but one of two shapeshifting Men in Tolkien's works? Nolo contendere.

[mormegil]

Honestly I met Beorn once and I couldn't stand all the sniffing he did, it creeped me out a bit if you know what I mean...if you don't think of dogs and when they meet

++Faramir

The book Faramir is one of my favorite from the trilogy, not the favorite mind you, but up in the top 10. Anyway, despite having a wretched father and a glory hog of a brother, he turned out great.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

++Beorn
Unlike Faramir, who is a sensitive metrosexual...

Could we please stop calling people gay in this thread, Morthoron! Your crack at Michael Angelo was bad enough, but calling Faramir so is pushing the limits. All that I've heard implied about Beorn is that he's cool, don't call characters things that they are not if you can't find anything good to back up your character choice.

Faramir rode into the jaws of certain death with his company to appease his father's will. Now that is devotion and courage. Faramir read the hearts of men as shrewdly as his father, but what he read moved him sooner to pity than to scorn. He was gentle in bearing, and a lover of lore and of music, and therefore by many in those days his courage was judged less than his brother's. But it was not so, except that he did not seek glory in danger without a purpose.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Could we please stop calling people gay in this thread, Morthoron! Your crack at Michael Angelo was bad enough, but calling Faramir so is pushing the limits. All that I've heard implied about Beorn is that he's cool, don't call characters things that they are not if you can't find anything good to back up your character choice. .

Michelangelo was the world's greatest sculptor. He also happened to be gay, as was Leonardo Da Vinci. It is not a big deal, and you've taken what I said about him out of context (actually, it was a slap at certain Christians who would place in hell anyone they disagree with). I am sorry you are unaware of history. Perhaps reading might help.

As far as the term 'sensitive metrosexual', it does not indicate someone who is gay; on the contrary, it is an exclusively heterosexual term. Study your neologisms before you make accusations and go overboard spouting your indignation. It is becoming tedious.

[Durelin]

Faramir is an adorable emo boy whom I love muchly, but Beorn is just awesome. Bears are awesome.

++Beorn

People are forgetting that this is Middle-earth Mirth.

[the phantom]

Book Faramir was awesome. His encounter with Frodo is one of my favorite bits in LotR. Great conversations...

++ Faramir

[mormegil]

I'm noticing some going a big overboard on their feelings on this thread. Please remember that this thread is on the mirth sub-forum and is by no means canon. It is light hearted and fun. Absurd reasons can be given to not vote or to vote for any candidate. Please lighten up or I will lighten you up a bit

[Nerwen]

++Faramir.

Because... um... I don't like bears. (Not that I know any personally.)

[Thinlómien]

Once again two characters I like against each other... Hmph...

++Beorn

Because, to use my new favourite word, he's cooler.

I like Faramir very much, but he's such a perfect hero that it annoys me a bit. I mean, for example, if I think of it reasonably, I should prefer him to Boromir by far, but I just don't. Because Boromir is less of a saint, and thus more interesting.

Beorn is an interesting guy. I love his unpredictability and his sense of humour. I also like it that even though he's gruff and you could almost call him a brute, he has a warm heart and has hidden wisdom... Hmmm, actually, kind of the stereotypic Man of North... And of course he has a fascinating relationship with nature and that shapeshifting is just incredible...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Man, I knew I'd get into trouble for that. But come on, are you seriously suggesting that Aragorn tossing Gimli wasn't funny?

If it had been the other way around... Then yes.

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

don't call characters things that they are not if you can't find anything good to back up your character choice.

I must point out that some people just have a good gaydar.

++Beorn

I like bears. I like Beorn's relationship with nature, and his house, and his sense of humour, and also his openness (and the lack of it - just the way he decides if he trusts someone or not) and loyalty.

[Lalwendë]

This is momentarily quite hard as I love both characters, however I am going to come down on the side of Faramir as he's so much like Robin Hood (who is perhaps my favourite mythical hero of all time) that it's uncanny.

++Faramir

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Faramir.

Because... um... I don't like bears. (Not that I know any personally.)
__________________

Nerwen must be a relative of Stephen Colbert


"The number one threat to America [and Middle-earth?], BEARS!"

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Because, to use my new favourite word, he's cooler.

My thoughts exactly. If this were a contest between who you would rather be in a relationship with, I think I'd choose Faramir over any character, but Beorn kicks more butt...and there's always something about the dangerous type...

I think that should be the next Mirth contest.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, this is a similarly hard choice as what has been here before. I think in this, it would depend solely on my mood whom to vote for. Faramir is a fantastic character, I like him a lot. Beorn is just great character, I like him a lot. On Faramir, I like the most probably his behavior. On Beorn, I like the most probably his shapeshifting. The second thing I like on Beorn is that he is funny. The second thing I like about Faramir is that he is not such a (forgive me the strong word) mindless guardian and just the "tough soldier" as most of the Stout Men Of Gondor are. The third thing I like about Faramir is how he cares of Éowyn when it's really bad with her. Her part or her opinon aside, he does not force anything upon her, which I like. The third thing I like on Beorn is what he represents: the "wild man" from Wilderness... including all the things that he can speak with animals and how he treats them, which is nice too. And hey, he is a friend of Radagast's! But that is not as much of an evidence for me. Hmph.

Well, you know what - since I think Beorn has more votes now, I will vote for

++Faramir

[skip spence]

Well, that's it, Beorn has defeated Faramir by 8 votes to 6 (or 7 if I count Legate's vote which technically was late) and by that the first round is concluded.

If it's okay with you I'll hold the start of the second round matches until tomorrow. I'll probably post comments on the first round and some odds before that.

[skip spence]

After a suspenseful fortnight of ups, downs, thrills and frill, the first round of the Middle Earth Popularity Cup is concluded and 32 have become 16. We have seen plenty of heavily favoured heroes bask in glory after a job well done but also a few upsets leading to return trip much earlier than expected for some participants. Of the original nine walkers only five now remain and even Gollum, one of the pre-tournament favourites to win, has been eliminated, along with Merry, Pippin, Legolas and Gimli. So far, this Cup has not been for the vertically challenged: ten Hobbits and Dwarves entered the competition but now only three remain: Frodo, Sam and the unlikely figure of Mim. The yellow boots and questionable poetry of Tom Bombadil will no longer grace the audience, nor will the fiery temper of Fëanor or the wisdom of Faramir. But here, without further ado, are the second round match-ups:

Second Round:

Frodo Baggins (7) vs. Beleg Strongbow (8)
Mim the Petty Dwarf (5) vs. Sauron (10)
Maedhros (10) vs. Glaurung (4)
Boromir(8) vs. Saruman (7)

Gandalf (14) vs. Elrond (1)
Lúthien (4) vs. Galadriel (10)
Aragorn (7) vs. Samwise Gamgee (9)
Túrin Turambar (10) vs. Beorn (7)

Odds for every match-up have also come in from The Betberry Bookmakers as well as odds on the winner of the whole tournament. At present Gandalf is the favourite at 11/2, closely followed by dynamic duo Frodo and Sam at 13/2. The odds on Gandalf’s old chum and fellow wizard Saruman have dropped dramatically after his emphatic first round win against Gollum and is down to 7/1. Aragorn and Boromir round out the top-favoured group and are both at 11/1.

The rest: Turin 20/1; Maedhros 25/1; Galadriel 80/1; Glaurung, Sauron, Elrond 100/1; Beorn 200/1; Lúthien, Beleg 250/1; Mim 1000/1

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Beleg Cuthalion is far more pro-active then the nice
hobbit, granted the Baggins had better luck in choice
of human companions, but since the elf is one of
the more attractive of FA elves and the chief theme
here is popularity:

+ + The strongbow

And look at those odds!

[skip spence]

Frodo Baggins vs. Beleg Strongbow

Frodo had a fairly comfortable passage to the second round, showing The Gaffer who the Master is on Bag's End. Beleg had to work harder, just managing to overcome the stout Farmer Maggot by five votes to four. Frodo is heavily favoured ahead of this contest. Will he march on or can Beleg cause an upset?

As usual the deadline is 12.00 Am tomorrow board-time.

[A Little Green]

++ Beleg

No question. Frodo is nice and all, but for some reason he's never moved me to one way or another. He's somehow a trifle too basic a main character. I don't know what's this thing of mine about main characters, but they never interest me as much as the minor ones do.
Beleg, on the other hand, is one of my all-time favourites and his death I think is one of the most tragic scenes in Tolkien's work. Granted, he's maybe a bit too perfect, but I just love him, his wisdom, his courage, his faithfulness, and the way he dies is so wrong it hurts.

[Aganzir]

++Frodo

When I compare him to Beleg, it's Beleg who doesn't move me that much. I think that is because it can be seen so clearly in the story how Frodo grows up and learns to consider also other people's needs. It's easy to say that other hobbits might have done at least as well as he did, but I wouldn't bet on it. Frodo was both strong-willed enough and capable of adapting quickly to difficult situations.

He started out with Sam as his servant, but can you talk about a servant and a master anymore in the end? Try to remain a good servant as Sam might, Frodo clearly considered him his equal on the later part of the journey.

Think how Frodo treated Lobelia in the beginning. He spoke nastily of her and was mean to the Sackville-Bagginses - and he also left the dishes for Lobelia when setting out to Crickhollow! But in the end he felt pity for her (and Lotho). No wonder Lobelia left him what little property she had. That's something I call adorable.

I'm quoting also my earlier post where I voted Frodo in order to convince those who might still be wavering to vote for him.

I like to compare him to Siddharta Gautama; having lived a happy youth, he went through a lot of suffering to achieve wisdom.
In the beginning he was a simple, ordinary hobbit - just like the Gaffer - but on returning home he had learnt forgiveness, mercy, and peace. When I was little, I found him a bit boring, not a proper hero, when he refused to bear weapons in the end, but now that's one of the most important things why I like him.

Also, a suggestion, skippy. Isn't it a bit unfair that in case of a tie the winner is always the one who got his/her votes first? What about giving some overtime in those cases so that although a new match has already begun, it's still allowed to vote for a contestant of the previous match until one of them gets a vote?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

He's somehow a trifle too basic a main character. I don't know what's this thing of mine about main characters, but they never interest me as much as the minor ones do.

That's exactly what I think as well and also exactly what I said in the last voting But still, to me, Frodo is a more interesting character, and he is not that horribly uninteresting as many of the main characters happen to be. But also:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Think how Frodo treated Lobelia in the beginning. He spoke nastily of her and was mean to the Sackville-Bagginses - and he also left the dishes for Lobelia when setting out to Crickhollow! But in the end he felt pity for her (and Lotho). No wonder Lobelia left him what little property she had. That's something I call adorable.

This is wonderful, I say. Yes - the stance of Frodo towards the Sackville-Bagginses when he returns is just something very moving and shows some other, deeper dimension of Frodo and shows indeed, maybe more than anything else (at least more than anything else I can think of right now), the change he went through on his journey.

Yes, no long pondering.

++Frodo

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

++Frodo
Also, a suggestion, skippy. Isn't it a bit unfair that in case of a tie the winner is always the one who got his/her votes first? What about giving some overtime in those cases so that although a new match has already begun, it's still allowed to vote for a contestant of the previous match until one of them gets a vote?

I actually had that in mind myself but promptly forgot about it. But yeah, let's do it: in case of a tie when the deadline passes anyone may vote again and the first to do so decides the contest in sudden death fashion. I'll add that in the op too.

[Groin Redbeard]

No question about it. We get to see Frodo grow on his journey and evolve into a more delightful character, and we share in his struggles that he deals with. One significant change I saw in Frodo at the end of the book was his almost pacifist nature. Frodo was ready to kill Gollum in Moria yet even at the cracks of Doom he does not feel any ill feelings towards Gollum. Same thing when he lets Saruman/Sharku go after he has defiled the Shire. Frodo has transformed into the very impitamy of mercy and is absolutely the strongest, most showing, and best side of Frodo's character.

++Frodo

[mormegil]

Bah! Frodo didn't actually do anything now did he? All he did was whine the whole way to Mordor, ride on Sam's back and basically take all the food and drink from the truly noble Samwise. How hard is it to make yourself look good when you and your uncle essentially write the narrative?

Beleg, on the other hand, is noble and brave. Plus anybody who gets a surname like Strongbow has got to be pretty cool.

++Beleg

Frodo's foot hair is too long as well.

[Thinlómien]

++Frodo

I'll come back to reason later if I have time and this round is still going on.

[Andsigil]

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

I've also found through the years, both in real life and in studying history (at university and subsequently) that the old adage of "Mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep" has a lot of truth in it. I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a wolf. My threshold for wolflike behavior is pretty low.

In any event, I choose ++Beleg

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

No, no, no, I should have specified clearer. Frodo wasn't a pacifist, I just said how he nearly was one with how merciful and gracious he was. He certainly didn't appose the Hobbits to fight for their home, as a pacifist would have done. Frodo wasn't afraid to fight for what was good and just but it wasn't the first thing that entered his mind. What I was referring to, when I mentioned Frodo almost being pacifist, is his handling of Saruman at the end. Saruman even jumped at Frodo with a knife and stabbed him but Frodo still let him go, he might have been overly merciful but I think that he showed wisdom at the same time.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

While I enjoyed reading Groin's thoughts on how Frodo became the epitome of mercy, I have mixed feelings on that sort of blanket pacifism. It's easy to show Frodo in a noble light for acting this way because, after all, he was the central character and Tolkien crafted the story the way he wanted. However, in real life, the luxury of embracing pacifism generally only works when it's done from behind the safety of a bulwark, which says something poignantly ironic about the nature of pacifism, itself.

I've also found through the years, both in real life and in studying history (at university and subsequently) that the old adage of "Mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep" has a lot of truth in it. I suppose it depends on what you consider to be a wolf. My threshold for wolflike behavior is pretty low.

Standing watching when let's say somebody attacks your friend, such kind of pacifism will be surely immoral. But have you for example read anything about Mahatma Gandhi? He was just a man like everybody else, but his concepts of non-aggression I find actually pretty nice, and he proved them himself with quite good outcome several times...

[Nogrod]

I'm afraid Frodo will just walk away with victory from this so I have to try and help the other side. I've nothing against Frodo, quite on the contrary, but we need some believable opposition in the form of votes to make this more interesting.

++ Beleg

Now I just have to come up with a reason...

Well, Beleg is just cool, a Hero (with a capital H) and I really admired him when I read the Silm the first time.

Then again the parts with Frodo and Sam wandering together in the LotR were the most boring pages in the book when I was younger - I was indeed always hoping the prof would have done away with them and the story would have gotten back to where the war was brewed and fought, where the pawns moved on the board, where the politics were gambled and wider views showed.

So let's say this is Nogrod, aged 14, voting here...

[Morthoron]

++Frodo.

He is a more complete character than Beleg, who seems rather flat and one-dimensional.