The History of Galadriel and Celeborn - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

cellurdur · 01-27-2013, 03:15 PM

Whilst looking at a checking up on a few other facts I had to look into the chapter on Galadriel and Celeborn in the Unfinished Tales. It seems very hard to come to a concrete history of the pair.

The first and easiest to fit into the Legendarium is the story that Galadriel was a Noldorin princess and Celeborn a Sindarin prince, but kin through the brothers Olwe and Elmo, their respective grandfathers. galadriel in this version of events drives the Noldor to rebel and receives the ban. She is not part of the kin slaying and as a relative of Thingol is able to enter Doriath where she marries Celeborn. The two remain here until Feanor's sons sack Doriath and they then escape to the Havens.

However, Tolkien's last words on the subject and written shortly before his death give us a completely different story. In this version Galadriel's ancestry remains the same, but Celeborn is now also the grandson of Olwe. They both leave Middle Earth together and are only banned, because they left without permission. In this version of events both take part in the defence of the Teleri at the kin slaying. When they arrive in Middle Earth neither take part in the war against Morgoth and instead move east over the Blue Mountains.

In the case of Galadriel not much is publish about her earlier days and her story can be altered with little trouble. However, there is real trouble in the case of Celeborn. How can he be the grandson of Olwe? If this was the case then he and Galadriel would be first cousins and forbidden from marriage. It would also contradict several statements in Lord of the Rings. So how can we make this fit? Do we have to mix and match the two stories? Keeping Galadriel's sole departure from Valinor but having Celeborn remain a Sindar prince? Also would the Teleri Celeborn have such strong feelings against the dwarves for the sack of Doriath if he was not from there?

Then there is the problem of the Second Age. In the early version Galadriel and Celeborn are the Lord and Lady of Eregion before Sauron urges Celebrimbor's rebellion. Then Galadriel enters Lorien for the first time, before eventually moving to Imladris with Celeborn. In this version she leaves her son Amroth to rule. It is certain that Amroth is no longer he son and a late version of Amroth's story has him ruling Lorien until the days of Earnil.

Consequently we are forced to reject a significant part of this. Celeborn is said to have lived in Lindon with Galadriel in part of the Second Age, but they still must have lived with Elrond for some part of the Second Age or how else could Elrond fall for Celebrian?

Lastly there is the question of the Elessar. For me the only version that seems to fit with the story is the first case. Where Gandalf brings the stone back from Earendil. In this version Galadriel keeps her nobility and Celebrimbor is not said to be Noldor elf from Gondolin. It foreshadows her giving it to Elrond and it shows she had the favour of the Valar.

What does anyone else make of the story. Is is possible to somehow patch the pieces together to make a coherent history?

01-27-2013, 03:15 PM	#1
cellurdur Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 276	The History of Galadriel and Celeborn Whilst looking at a checking up on a few other facts I had to look into the chapter on Galadriel and Celeborn in the Unfinished Tales. It seems very hard to come to a concrete history of the pair. The first and easiest to fit into the Legendarium is the story that Galadriel was a Noldorin princess and Celeborn a Sindarin prince, but kin through the brothers Olwe and Elmo, their respective grandfathers. galadriel in this version of events drives the Noldor to rebel and receives the ban. She is not part of the kin slaying and as a relative of Thingol is able to enter Doriath where she marries Celeborn. The two remain here until Feanor's sons sack Doriath and they then escape to the Havens. However, Tolkien's last words on the subject and written shortly before his death give us a completely different story. In this version Galadriel's ancestry remains the same, but Celeborn is now also the grandson of Olwe. They both leave Middle Earth together and are only banned, because they left without permission. In this version of events both take part in the defence of the Teleri at the kin slaying. When they arrive in Middle Earth neither take part in the war against Morgoth and instead move east over the Blue Mountains. In the case of Galadriel not much is publish about her earlier days and her story can be altered with little trouble. However, there is real trouble in the case of Celeborn. How can he be the grandson of Olwe? If this was the case then he and Galadriel would be first cousins and forbidden from marriage. It would also contradict several statements in Lord of the Rings. So how can we make this fit? Do we have to mix and match the two stories? Keeping Galadriel's sole departure from Valinor but having Celeborn remain a Sindar prince? Also would the Teleri Celeborn have such strong feelings against the dwarves for the sack of Doriath if he was not from there? Then there is the problem of the Second Age. In the early version Galadriel and Celeborn are the Lord and Lady of Eregion before Sauron urges Celebrimbor's rebellion. Then Galadriel enters Lorien for the first time, before eventually moving to Imladris with Celeborn. In this version she leaves her son Amroth to rule. It is certain that Amroth is no longer he son and a late version of Amroth's story has him ruling Lorien until the days of Earnil. Consequently we are forced to reject a significant part of this. Celeborn is said to have lived in Lindon with Galadriel in part of the Second Age, but they still must have lived with Elrond for some part of the Second Age or how else could Elrond fall for Celebrian? Lastly there is the question of the Elessar. For me the only version that seems to fit with the story is the first case. Where Gandalf brings the stone back from Earendil. In this version Galadriel keeps her nobility and Celebrimbor is not said to be Noldor elf from Gondolin. It foreshadows her giving it to Elrond and it shows she had the favour of the Valar. What does anyone else make of the story. Is is possible to somehow patch the pieces together to make a coherent history?