Why is it so difficult?

[Durelin]

I see this come up a lot, but I don't think there's actually been a thread about it before. Just tell me if I'm wrong.

A lot of people say they find The Silmarillion difficult to read, or that they find it boring, or maybe just less exciting that The Lord of the Rings. (And I know probably just as many people like it more than LotR.)

What is it that makes The Silmarillion more difficult for you (or anyone) to read? What makes it (more) 'boring' (to some)?

I think, in a way, it takes someone who is at least moderately into either history or mythology (or both) to be interested in it. It might be more difficult to read than typical mythology (at least, Greek and Roman mythology, which I am most familiar with - but from what I've read of say, Hindu mythology, I think it's similar in that respect), too, if only because it is so lengthy and in-depth. Greek and Roman mythologies, and I think most others, come in the form of short, entertaining stories, because they were, in fact, written down only after years and years of being told orally, and when stories were told orally, they were meant to entertain, and obviously would have been constructed differently from something that was straight text.

Or is it just that history is boring? (This is being asked by someone who considered being a history major, so watch how you answer.)

[Folwren]

Well, I always hated history in school because the history books were so blamed boring. I love history in itself...but when the history books about history are boring...

The Sil., when I first picked it up, was difficult for me because it was in that historical form type writing at first. It's not like a regular novel or book of fiction. However, when I finally picked it up and read all of it, even though it took me a long time to read, I found that it was and incredible book.

It's not like the LotR or the Hobbit, that you can just sit and read it for hours and hours at a time. It takes more thought and there's a much bigger load in it than just a tale of a few characters being told. It's the whole world's story that's being told. The characters come and go...you grow attached to one man and in ten pages, he's gone.

History is not boring. It's just...you can't read it the same as a piece of regular fiction.

-- Folwren

[mormegil]

I love the Silm but I believe some have difficutly because while it is all connected it's not a very cohesive story line. Unlike most books the start and finish is with one character or group of individuals and their quest or story. The Silm is based on the objects not the people.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

It took me a few tries to read the Silm. Each time was difficult for a different reason. First attempt: gave up due to the idea that "Oh Freaking What The? It's like reading a direct rip off of the Bible. And in the beginning there was... Gah!"

Second try I got through Eru and collapsed at the lists of people's children. I didn't want to take notes to keep track of characters. I was supposed to be reading for the fun of it.

Third try I couldn't stomach trying to keep everybody that was running around Belariand in the correct order and location.

Fourth try I managed it, but it was tough.

Now I view it as an unfinished work that vaguely annoys me to try and read as a whole. Basically, if I want to know something, I google it or ask Formendacil. It's, quite frankly, easier.

[narfforc]

The amount of times I have heard people say: I liked LotR, but couldn't get into The Silmarillion. I now tell them that once reading LotR again go straight to the back of The Sil and read Of The Rings of Power and The Third Age. Therein they meet familiar Characters and Places, and also new ones, you can almost read the chapters backwards, like researching your family history. Everyone who has read LotR should have an inkling of what The Downfall of Numenor is about. I think there are three different parts of The Sil, they are:

1. The Beginning: Nearly impossible to take in at first, an alien story.

2. The Middle: The Edges of your mind and memory are touched by the faintest beginnings of recognition.

3. The End: Hey I know that name, I've heard this somewhere before.

I really quite like the old book now.......HOOOOOOOM

[Lalwendë]

Nice idea narfforc!

The 'shock' some people get is from passing from something with such a great plot and narrative right into the Sil that's written in a very different style. Plus as narfforc says, unfamiliar characters!

A tip: photocopy the maps and family trees, use 'em as book marks and then you've a handy reference to refer to when you get confused with all these new names and places that Tolkien throws out at a rate of 100 per page (or it feels like that anyway).

I think that once The Children of Hurin is published there will be a 'bridge' between LotR and the Sil, in terms of a story that takes the unsuspecting reader across that big gap of style.

[TheOrcWithNoName]

Originally Posted by narfforc

The amount of times I have heard people say: I liked LotR, but couldn't get into The Silmarillion. I now tell them that once reading LotR again go straight to the back of The Sil and read Of The Rings of Power and The Third Age. Therein they meet familiar Characters and Places, and also new ones, you can almost read the chapters backwards, like researching your family history. Everyone who has read LotR should have an inkling of what The Downfall of Numenor is about. I think there are three different parts of The Sil, they are:

1. The Beginning: Nearly impossible to take in at first, an alien story.

2. The Middle: The Edges of your mind and memory are touched by the faintest beginnings of recognition.

3. The End: Hey I know that name, I've heard this somewhere before.

I really quite like the old book now.......HOOOOOOOM

My first attempt on The Silm (sounds' like I'm trying to conquer Everest here, and in some respects the analogy is true), was about 30 years ago when I was a teenager with lots of spare time on my hands.

I had just completed & enjoyed both The Hobbit & Lord Of The Rings, so felt in the mood to carry on with Tolkien's adventure and purchase The Silm, rather naively expecting it to be a standard novel either following on from LOTR or some kind of backfil between the two tomes. How very very wrong I was!

I think by about page 30 I just gave up. Clearly this was no story in the typical or logical sense, but just a collection of random ideas, sketches & disorganised ramblings, was my initial critique of the book. And I believe it sat on my bookshelf gathering dust for another 15 years or so before I attempted the same task again.

But even second time around I found it to be quite inaccessible, confusing and generally quite frustrating with even trying to complete a couple of pages! So again I gave up the ghost and moved on.

I consider myself to be of average intelligence and enjoy books of all kinds; I even completed Stephen Hawkins' "A Brief History Of Time" twice and loved every moment. However, The Silm, is just out there on its own as a book I have failed to complete. But then after reading some of the opinions on here, I guess my expectations were set too high and that perhaps this book should not be read in the usual front2back way; but is a book to be dipped in back & forth. It is not a story in the true sense just a collection of historical events portrayed in various time lines and from different points of view.

I feel encouraged to read LOTR again very soon, but on completion I will then continue with The Silm, but this time taking the advice of Narfforc and read the chapters concerning The Third Age and The Rings of Power to begin with, and then more or less read the book backwards, which will hopefully accommplish my ambition if conquering The Silmarillion once and for all.

[Ghazi]

I don't like it as much. As mentioned by others earlier in this thread, there are too many small stories. Also, it is a depressing read. It becomes clear very early on that the good guys are always going to screw up, at every opportunity, and let the bad guys win. Even when the victory seems final, it never is, but I guess that's just a dose of reality.

[Brinniel]

I first bought my copy of The Silmarillion in June 2002. I think it was a result of joining the Barrow Downs. Before joining, I hadn't really even heard of the book, but it was so talked about on the Downs. I felt absolutely clueless in some discussions and decided it was necessary to read it. Besides, I was curious. I read the first chapter and admit I found it incredibly boring. I didn't attempt to continue and instead got myself distracted by another fantasy series I still enjoy. I didn't pick up The Silmarillion again until the beginning of 2003- I decided that it was time I finally read the darned thing.

Getting through The Silmarillion was tough- it took months to finish it. Perhaps my difficulty with it was partially due to my age, after all I was only fourteen at the time. Like others who have posted on this thread, I found the book complex, full of too many characters and stories. Often, I felt like I was reading a history textbook, sometimes skimming through the most difficult parts. But as soon I was ready to give up on The Silmarillion, I would find a chapter that intrigued me. Such examples were the stories of Turin, and Beren and Luthien. Such chapters were what drove me to the end. And though I finished The Silmarillion still puzzled by much of its content, ultimately I was glad I read it. While some of the book was confusing, I still learned a lot and understood Middle-earth in ways I hadn't before.

Almost four years later, and I'm thinking it's about time I re-read The Silmarillion. After all, over the years I've seemed to forgotten much of its content. Even the story of Turin has grown cloudy for me. Besides I found through my experiences of re-reading LotR, that reading a book a second time can truly help one to understand it better. After re-reading The Silmarillion, perhaps I'll even start on HoME. I've owned the first book for years, yet it has remained untouched, save for when I took it with me to college. (Then my perfectly conditioned book became partially ruined from water damage due to the poor handling of my checked luggage- that happened three months ago and I'm still bitter about it. Anyways, that experience is a long story and I won't get into it....)

[Boromir_bg]

Firstly,history is never boring.At least I think so.
Secondly,I think that Sil is a little bit "dry",because it does not contain so much action,but merely facts.I think that those who read it just have to have the proper expectations.

[Amras Oronar]

I didn't quit expierience it as boring, perhaps only the beginning about the creattion, it was sort of difficult to understand and I personally didn't find it quit intresting. Also it is af course not really a story, it's more a history reccord. It doesn't have any main character's or anything. Af course the Hobbit and LoTR are real story's perhaps some people are preparing for that when they start reading the Silmarillion? I've always been told it was very very boring when I starded reading it, so it was much better then I expected

Also I know people who found it so sophisticated that they kept notes to remember who everybody was, it is quit hard to keep up with everything because there are so many people featured in it. Personally I havae to admit that sometimes I didn't understand it because I forgot who exactly the person who was featured in that chapter actually was...

But af course after a while you get to learn everybody and you understand everything better, but I did find it very hard to keep up how all people were related together... I think for instance that from the biggest part of the sons of Feänor I only found out they were sons of Feänor like half way through the book, when the eldest of Feänors sons died or and it said that the elf was now the eldest son of Feänor....

Though after reading it all I only found the beginning of how all was creatted confusion and perhaps a little boring...

[ArathorofBarahir]

I loved reading the Silmarillion. I have always been a history buff and reading the history of Tolkien's world was rather enjoyable for me.

[Elmo]

Come on the Silmarillion is brilliant - the image of Fingon's speech at the Battle of Unnumbered Tears 'Night is Over' stirs my heart, so does Hurin's stand against the trolls 'Day Will Come Again!' , the Shakespearien tragedy of Turin, the beautiful love story of Luthien and Beren 'Tinuviel, Tinuviel', Earendil's final voyage... I've found a book so full packed full of brilliance.
The only fault is I'd wish CT had added more detail to the actual Silmarillion that was in the Unfinished Tales like the tale of Tuor and I found his description of hurin's defiance of Melkor magic!

[The Sixth Wizard]

I first read the Sil a while ago, but only after reading about the various gods and stories elsewhere, like in the Encyclopaedia of Arda. This probably gave me some background to decipher the more complex texts and I had it read in a fortnight or maybe less. I was 13 at the time.

Much of it is beautiful, the Last Stand of Dor-Lomin stirs my heart. Hurin is my favourite character, over Turin and Fingolfin. I imagine vividly Earendil returning with a star upon his brow, can see the fire in Feanor's eye as he pursues Gothmog and Morgoth's forces. I like how Men are not considered pure, but easily tempted, and free to choose their own path. I also like how it isn't the goodies who get away with it, it's not predictable like most stories. One of my favourite things about it is that Aragorn's son (can't remember his name) is so far down the line he has a strain of Maiar, Teleri, Noldor, Vanyar and Dunedain (check it you'll see). I positively like the Silmarillion. It probably is a difficult book for most teenagers but I found it very intriguing.

Bye!

[Rhod the Red]

It's written from a third person perspective and much denser style writing than TLOTR, and the story line is not as interesting as in the Rings .

[mhagain]

I'd beg to disagree, but it's just a difference of opinion.

The storyline has far more potential to be interesting, but it's told in a more detached manner. It's obvious that if one got up close enough to see the whites of their eyes, Beren & Luthien (to pick an example) could very easily make a book as long as LoTR, and with as much incident and excitement in it.

[Groin Redbeard]

They're both first rate books. But I think the Silmarillion is more of a text book of history and Lord of the Rings/Hobbit are stories.

I think one of the reasons that it is so confusing is because it has Belierand in it, and for someone who has just read the Lord of the Rings that can be very confusing.

I still remember that I spent the first four chapters trying to find out what Belierand was.

[Galadriel]

For me it was because I couldn't quite relate to the characters well enough. There wasn't enough dialogue to make the characters seem 'human' enough. Add that to the slightly dry and less descriptive manner in which it is written, and you've got your answer from me.

[Galadriel55]

I've read the Sil after LOTR, and although I was familiar with some of the names, by far not most of them. At first, I was really confused about which Valar is which. Then - all the names of Finwe's children and grandchildren (except for Feanor and Galadriel, who I know fro LOTR). To me, Finwe, Fingolfin, Finrod, and Fingon were like one person. Later on I've sorted it out, though. The next confusion was about the family trees. It took me a while to understand all the relationships in the 3 Houses of Edain. Right now, I find all this inforation pretty much straightfoward.
I think that you can only truly start understanding the Sil once you've got the basics, which will not happen right away. People who put the book down because it's too complex should try one more time, maybe.

[findorfin]

Weirdly I've never read the Silmarillion. However, I listened to the Audio version countless times (thank you Martin Shaw) in my teens. I've just dug the tapes back out and have decided to purchase the CD version.

In this format I never had a problem with the story and loved the 'historicity' of it. I also loved the family trees (especially the House of Finwe) and created my own copies of them.

I'm now wondering if, like the old greek myths which would have been read/spoken to you, listening to the Silmarillion made a big impact. I certainly don't have an urge to read it, but now I've found them again, they're going straight on my Blackberry so I can listen to them.

[Durelin]

And I still have not read the Sil. Oh dear.

I've read a lot more myth, epic, saga, and historical narrative in the past few years and think I would appreciate Tolkien's style (and influences) even more.

I am also so many years distant of LotR that it might feel like I'm entering an entirely new world again.

[Mister Underhill]

The Sil is challenging, no question, especially diving right in with the Ainulindalë and the Valaquenta, which can be like cracking open a King James Bible from an alternate dimension while you're trying to kick back on the beach on summer vacation. I don't know if I would have ever gotten through it if it wasn't for wanting to be able to keep up on these here Downs. I'm glad I did, though the Sil will never be the sort of comfort book that LotR is for me. My experience reminded me of reading Moby Dick -- the work you put in slogging through the first third or so pays off in spades on the back end, and once you get comfortable and conversant in the world of the First Age, you can go back and appreciate some of the poetry in the earlier chapters.

Some good advice has been given in this thread. I'll echo the things that ring true for me:

• Have easy access to maps and family trees. For me, having a couple of extra bookmarks so that I could easily flip to the resource I needed was enough.
• Have a nice chunk of time to devote to it. The Sil is not the type of book to read in small sips, ten pages before bedtime or something.
• Hang in there at least until you get into the first few chapters of the Quenta proper. If you can get to chapters that have actual scenes and exchanges of dialogue and a narrative thread, you can keep your head above water.

I'd add, don't approach it as a duty. If you love Middle-earth, you probably owe it to yourself to give the Sil a shot, but it doesn't make you a bad Tolkien fan if you never warm up to it.

[rriebsomer]

Hi. I'm new here. I have read the Silmarillion more than once. I think it's difficult for lots of reasons. Christopher Tolkien actually put it together from his father's writings posthumously. Professor Tolkien never really finished it.

It's very dark and tragic. It's a complex legendarium beginning with a creation story and a fall out of paradise. There is not as much dialogue.

Tolkien started writing this while in the trenches at the Battle of the Somme in WW I. I'm not sure that it's as mature a creation as the Lord of the Rings.

For me the most interesting story is Beren and Luthien. I found that by reading Unfinished Tales, certain gaps in the legendarium were filled in ie what happened with the necklace the dwarves made for Thingol after he received the Silmaril Beren wrested from the crown of Morgoth.

I think many readers find it pessimistic and would prefer the eucatastrophe of the Lord of the Rings, the happily ever after ending.

I read it because like Frodo I wanted to hear the elder tales. So now when I read the Lord of the Rings and there are references to the First Age, I know exactly what they are talking about.

This is a great question and a great topic for discussion. Thanks for introducing it.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by rriebsomer

I think many readers find it pessimistic and would prefer the eucatastrophe of the Lord of the Rings, the happily ever after ending.

Well, I, for one, do not like "happily ever after" endings, and I don't think that LOTR ended that way. I recall reading a thread specifically about this, and the general opinion was that, as good as the overall situation seems to be, there is sadness and sorrow in it.

On the contrary, I rather like the "epicness" of The Sil's ending, and just everywhere in it. But the final words are priceless - how the seeds of lies will always bear fruit and etc.

I think you have a good point when you say that there isn't much dialogue, though. This might really be one of the reasons that people have trouble understanding it. If, in LOTR, you can understad a character based on his/her words, in The Sil you only have their actions.

I read it because like Frodo I wanted to hear the elder tales. So now when I read the Lord of the Rings and there are references to the First Age, I know exactly what they are talking about.

Same story here!

[Galadriel]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by rriebsomer

Hi. I'm new here.

Welcome to the Downs

It's very dark and tragic. It's a complex legendarium beginning with a creation story and a fall out of paradise. There is not as much dialogue.

I do mourn the lack of dialogue, but then again, the book would cover five thousand pages or more if Tolkien had entertained that idea.

Tolkien started writing this while in the trenches at the Battle of the Somme in WW I. I'm not sure that it's as mature a creation as the Lord of the Rings.

It is younger, yes, but I find it infinitely more mature than LotR either way, aside from a few paragraphs/chapters.

For me the most interesting story is Beren and Luthien.

Really? I hated that one

I think many readers find it pessimistic and would prefer the eucatastrophe of the Lord of the Rings, the happily ever after ending.

I really do not think that LotR had a 'happily ever after' ending, and am duly grateful for that. It left a bittersweet aftertaste that I could digest more easily than a sickly sweet one.