The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > Novices and Newcomers > Music in Middle-earth
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-06-2010, 09:57 AM   #1
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 706
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Narya 'Elven Music in Our Times', Mira Sommer

Anyone with an interest in how Elvish music in Tolkien’s works, in particular in The Lord of the Rings, is interpreted by modern musicians, will find ‘Elven Music in Our Times’ by Mira Sommer a good read. She tries to answer these questions:

But how do composers today imagine such music? How do modern musicians interpret the culture of the Elves? And how great is the part which the Elvish languages play in the timbre and tone of the music? (Music, p. 255)

Ms. Sommer’s overview is divided into two main parts. First, those musicians who directly interpret Elvish music, divided into two sections, one dealing with Peter Jackson’s The Lord of the Rings films, and the other looking at ‘Tolkien’s Elves in General Musical Interpretation’. (pp. 255-277) Second are what she calls ‘More “Elvish Musicians”’, where she looks at musicians who are inspired by Elvish music, but who do not directly interpret it. (pp. 277-280)

Looking at the Jackson films, the author starts with The Fellowship of the Ring, which contains the largest number of interpretations of Elvish music of the three. At the start, I was interested to read that the ‘Elvish Lothlόrien Theme’ as spoken by Galadriel was a rendering of text translated into Sindarian, then performed in Quenya. (pp. 255-256)

Also particularly interesting to read was that the ‘Song of Lúthien’ was translated into Sindarian, and with an ‘a capella melody…composed and performed by Viggo Mortensen’. (p. 258) Good for him!

Other bits worth particular reading are those dealing with ‘Aragorn and Arwen’s Theme’, a song both written and sung by Enya, (pp. 260-261) and ‘Caras Galadhon and Galadriel’s Mirror’, the latter discussing the choral singing of the elves of Lothlόrien: 'The songs are really reminiscent of the measured notes of Gregorian choirs and have a meditative, almost intoxicating effect in conjunction with the instruments'. (pp. 262-264)

I was intrigued to read that the instruments used in the above included the ‘monochord’, the ‘Ney flute from Egypt’ and the ‘sarangi’ from classic Indian music. (p. 264)

In The Two Towers, I liked learning that in ‘Arwen’s Fate/The Grace of the Valar’ a UK singer of South Indian background, Sheila Chandra, was used. Not so great was the reminder that it was the background to a silly piece where Elrond persuades Arwen to leave Middle-earth, telling her that it she remains with Aragorn, he will die and she will be left alone. (pp. 266-267) As if she hadn’t known this, and had made her decision a long time ago!

Finishing with The Return of the King, I also liked learning that Renée Fleming was the one who sang ‘Twilight and Shadow/The Grace of Undόmiel’, but was unfortunately reminded of the nonsense of that part of the film, involving Arwen leaving Middle-earth, then having a vision of her son, changing her mind and returning to her father to tell him of her final decision to be with Aragorn. (p. 268)

Overall, I enjoyed reading about the production of the Elvish music in the Jackson films, music which I like listening to very much; but some of the pieces reminded me of parts of the films that were badly adapted, which the quality of the music does not conceal, like beautiful wrapping paper concealing an ugly present.

In looking at ‘Tolkien’s Elves in General Musical Interpretation’, the author looks at the work of The Tolkien Ensemble, the group that made the first complete musical interpretation of all the poems and songs in LotR. (pp. 270-277) I’ll let the reader find out what she says, but will say that it’s a good introduction to people who don’t know them and their work.

In dealing with musicians who find Elvish music an inspiration, though they do not directly interpret it, the author gives us an overview of some such people and bands: David Arkenstone, Enya, Jessica Butler, Qntal, Nightwish, Enam, and The Fellowship, admitting that her selection is limited. (pp. 277-280)

She reaches this conclusion regarding the interpretation of Elvish music by modern musicians:

In spite of all the different interpretations, the motifs share a basic simplicity and musical tone: they are all spherical, transcendental, and mystical. They seem to long for countries far away and appear as a deeply moving story. (p. 280)

I agree with this conclusion, with the qualification that the musicians discussed aim for the above mentioned goals. Whether they have succeeded or not in this is a matter for the individual listener.

That said, I warmly recommend this article as a very interesting overview of how Elvish music has been interpreted by musicians in the last number of years.

Last edited by Faramir Jones; 03-06-2010 at 10:01 AM. Reason: I needed to delete something
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2010, 11:22 AM   #2
mark12_30
Stormdancer of Doom
 
mark12_30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars
Posts: 4,407
mark12_30 has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via AIM to mark12_30 Send a message via Yahoo to mark12_30
Faramir,

I find this thread intriguing. From my youth (which was in the 1960s and early 70s) I listened for elements of Elvishness in music, and was deeply affected when I found them. I have found it in places ranging from Tchaikovsky (parts of the ballets) to The Moody Blues (Tuesday Afternoon.). Only last month, I found some in PHil Wickham's worship music. One never quite knows when it might pop up.

That said, when the movies came out and people began publishing "Middle Earth"-style music, I had my checkbook ready. I have collected a fair amount and reviewed some of it here online as well as trying to instill some participation and later on some plain discussion

Tolkien would have enjoyed some of the music that has come out, I think. And that is usually one of my measurements that I use. If the professor would have left the room, can we call it elvish?

But that might bring us back around to "Canonicity".

Interesting thread topic.
__________________
...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

Last edited by mark12_30; 04-10-2010 at 11:35 AM.
mark12_30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 04:04 AM   #3
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 706
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Narya What's 'Elvishness'?

Mark, thanks for the links to the materials you mentioned, which I enjoyed reading very much.

I suppose all of us have our own definitions of 'Elvishness' that might overlap a lot, but are very rarely going to be exactly the same; so it's interesting for me to read where people have found what they feel are 'elements of Elvishness in music'.

I agree that Tolkien would have enjoyed 'some of the music that has come out'. The problem, as you correctly pointed out, is that any decision we make about what music he might have enjoyed is affected by our personal biases.

Do you think that Tolkien's sanctioning of Donald Swan's interpretation of his works made it easier for later interpretations to be accepted by some fans?
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 11:03 AM   #4
mark12_30
Stormdancer of Doom
 
mark12_30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars
Posts: 4,407
mark12_30 has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via AIM to mark12_30 Send a message via Yahoo to mark12_30
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faramir Jones View Post
[B]Do you think that Tolkien's sanctioning of Donald Swan's interpretation of his works made it easier for later interpretations to be accepted by some fans?
Yes I do; precisely because Donald Swan's interpretation doesn't contain a harp or a lute, but (gasp) a piano, and a piano played very much in drawing-room style. I doubt we would have found a piano even in Rivendell. (Gondolin??) (Aman???) But if Tolkien could enjoy Swan's piano, perhaps other instruments might also be used besides those specifically mentioned in use by elven minstrels.

(Considering Daeron and Tinfang Warble, why so few flutes? Lingalad rules!)

Had I not heard piano played by Donald Swan, and blessed by The Prof, would I have accepted "The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green" by the Tolkien Ensemble? The piano works beautifully there. (And then once I wonder what growing up in Rivendell might have done to a young ranger's voice, Tolkien Ensemble's 'Voice of Aragorn' works better and better. )

Do I owe that to Swan? Perhaps. A very intriguing thought.
__________________
...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.
mark12_30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 02:51 AM   #5
Faramir Jones
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Faramir Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lonely Isle
Posts: 706
Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Faramir Jones is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Thumbs up Blessed by The Prof

Mark, I particularly liked what you said here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12_30 View Post
Had I not heard piano played by Donald Swan, and blessed by The Prof, would I have accepted "The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green" by the Tolkien Ensemble? The piano works beautifully there. (And then once I wonder what growing up in Rivendell might have done to a young ranger's voice, Tolkien Ensemble's 'Voice of Aragorn' works better and better. )

Do I owe that to Swan? Perhaps. A very intriguing thought.
I haven't heard the piece you mentioned, but, like you, have accepted for the same reasons the use of the piano in versions of Tolkien's songs and poems.

In terms of what Aragorn's upbringing in Rivendell might have done to his voice, that's an intriguing line of enquiry. Another example of a Man fostered by an Elvish ruler was Túrin, fostered by Thingol. While we know how badly things turned out there, the influence of this upbring was such that, later in Nargothrond, he was called Adanedhel, 'Elf-Man', because his speech and bearing were that of the Kingdom of Doriath.
Faramir Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2010, 04:45 PM   #6
mark12_30
Stormdancer of Doom
 
mark12_30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars
Posts: 4,407
mark12_30 has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via AIM to mark12_30 Send a message via Yahoo to mark12_30
The Leaves Were Long, the Grass Was Green: Song of Beren And Luthien

Berit Johansen

There are samples for the rest of the album as well.

Including The Ent and the Ent-Wife.

Unfortunately I can't find a link for Lebennin.

Song of Gondor
__________________
...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

Last edited by mark12_30; 04-14-2010 at 04:53 PM.
mark12_30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:19 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.