Stone King - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 03-17-2003, 02:55 PM

I think that one of the most amazing descriptions in Tolkien's writings is of the stone king that Frodo and Sam find in Ithilien. I absolutely love the imagery of the crown of flowers touched by the sun growing on the defaced statue.

I wondered if anyone had interpretations of what Tolkien meant by that scene, or if he said anything about it in his letters (which unfortunately, I don't have access to). I've always taken it as another embodiment of his theme that beautiful things are sometimes more beautiful when faded, but I've been thinking and I wondered if anyone had other interpretations. Other favorite descriptions are fun too...

Iarwain · 03-17-2003, 08:53 PM

I believe that the stone king in some way symbolizes the fallen rule of the kings of Gondor. When Aragorn comes to the crossroads in command of the army, it is therefore significant that they repair the head of the king and clean it of all dishonors.

I agree that it is one of the most beautiful descriptions that Tolkien provides. It almost makes one feel sorry for this fallen sculpture of a fallen kingdom in fallen times that has fallen amidst such disrespect.

Iarwain

Meoshi · 03-17-2003, 08:55 PM

And yet received respect. As the flowers show, even nature acknowledges the rightful rule of the line of Elendil. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Silmarien · 03-21-2003, 08:50 PM

wow I thought I was the only one who loved that bit. I think the flowers growing into a crown is just... it just gives me a feeling of ambivilance, it makes me feel so sad and joyful at the same time. I think it's an example of beauty triumphing.

Iarwain · 03-21-2003, 09:31 PM

An interesting thought I had on reading your post, Silmarien. The stone king is very much like the exiled noldor in that way, they fought, they suffered, and yet they became all the more wise and beautiful because of it. Wisdom seems to do that, I've always loved that image of the wise, sad king. It makes me feel so, well, this may sound strange but it almost makes me feel fulfilled. Hm.

Thoughtfully,
Iarwain

Diamond18 · 03-21-2003, 09:57 PM

Quite. That scene brought actual tears to my eyes one of the times I read it. Caught me in just the right mood, you might say.

I found the flowers to be a much needed glimmer of hope preceding some of the darkest passages in the whole book. Being at the crossroads as it was, it signaled to me that it would be the last bit of beauty they would see until their quest was fulfilled.

Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 03-21-2003, 11:08 PM

*Smiling one of those almost sad smiles* I'm glad you guys feel the same about that scene as I do... like I said above, it seems to fit in with Tolkien's theme that even when fading beautiful things still possesss dignity and beauty. I guess that goes along with Iarwain's description of the Noldor, they were diminished in a way, in MiddleEarth, but they were still wise and lovely.

Silmarien · 03-22-2003, 07:19 PM

I just remebered the bit I like best where the sun going down comes out from beneath the murk put out by Sauron and shines on the face of the old king. I feel it's kind of like he's going to come up again a sort of reference to Aragorn. What do the rest of you think?

Luthien_ Tinuviel · 03-22-2003, 08:20 PM

That sounds pretty accurate to me. The symbolism of Aragorn and the stone king is very cool. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Lindril Arvilya · 03-23-2003, 01:10 PM

We need a smiley face that's smiling with tears coming down it's face. I think everyone would have used it on this thread.

Sophia the Thunder Mistress · 03-23-2003, 09:31 PM

Yeah, it reminds me about that thread I saw somewhere about "eucatastrophe"...it was a really good thread, I wish I knew how to make links on here. *frustration* But I think this is one of those soul-piercing joy moments that Tolkien defined as "eucatastrophe".

03-17-2003, 02:55 PM	#1
Sophia the Thunder Mistress Scent of Simbelmynë Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aboard Highwind, bound for Traverse Town Posts: 1,834	Stone King I think that one of the most amazing descriptions in Tolkien's writings is of the stone king that Frodo and Sam find in Ithilien. I absolutely love the imagery of the crown of flowers touched by the sun growing on the defaced statue. I wondered if anyone had interpretations of what Tolkien meant by that scene, or if he said anything about it in his letters (which unfortunately, I don't have access to). I've always taken it as another embodiment of his theme that beautiful things are sometimes more beautiful when faded, but I've been thinking and I wondered if anyone had other interpretations. Other favorite descriptions are fun too... __________________ The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me!

03-17-2003, 08:53 PM	#2
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 808	I believe that the stone king in some way symbolizes the fallen rule of the kings of Gondor. When Aragorn comes to the crossroads in command of the army, it is therefore significant that they repair the head of the king and clean it of all dishonors. I agree that it is one of the most beautiful descriptions that Tolkien provides. It almost makes one feel sorry for this fallen sculpture of a fallen kingdom in fallen times that has fallen amidst such disrespect. Iarwain __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"

03-21-2003, 08:50 PM	#4
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 207	wow I thought I was the only one who loved that bit. I think the flowers growing into a crown is just... it just gives me a feeling of ambivilance, it makes me feel so sad and joyful at the same time. I think it's an example of beauty triumphing. __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

03-21-2003, 09:31 PM	#5
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 808	An interesting thought I had on reading your post, Silmarien. The stone king is very much like the exiled noldor in that way, they fought, they suffered, and yet they became all the more wise and beautiful because of it. Wisdom seems to do that, I've always loved that image of the wise, sad king. It makes me feel so, well, this may sound strange but it almost makes me feel fulfilled. Hm. Thoughtfully, Iarwain __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"

03-21-2003, 09:57 PM	#6
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	Quite. That scene brought actual tears to my eyes one of the times I read it. Caught me in just the right mood, you might say. I found the flowers to be a much needed glimmer of hope preceding some of the darkest passages in the whole book. Being at the crossroads as it was, it signaled to me that it would be the last bit of beauty they would see until their quest was fulfilled. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

03-17-2003, 08:55 PM	#3
Meoshi Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë Posts: 163	And yet received respect. As the flowers show, even nature acknowledges the rightful rule of the line of Elendil. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

03-21-2003, 11:08 PM	#7
Sophia the Thunder Mistress Scent of Simbelmynë Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aboard Highwind, bound for Traverse Town Posts: 1,834	Smiling one of those almost sad smiles I'm glad you guys feel the same about that scene as I do... like I said above, it seems to fit in with Tolkien's theme that even when fading beautiful things still possesss dignity and beauty. I guess that goes along with Iarwain's description of the Noldor, they were diminished in a way, in MiddleEarth, but they were still wise and lovely. __________________ The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me!

03-22-2003, 07:19 PM	#8
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 207	I just remebered the bit I like best where the sun going down comes out from beneath the murk put out by Sauron and shines on the face of the old king. I feel it's kind of like he's going to come up again a sort of reference to Aragorn. What do the rest of you think? __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

03-22-2003, 08:20 PM	#9
Luthien_ Tinuviel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: A very lovely tree-hut in the Chunnel. Posts: 804	That sounds pretty accurate to me. The symbolism of Aragorn and the stone king is very cool. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] __________________ I am a nineteen-year-old nomad photographer who owns a lemonade stand. You know what? I love Mip.

03-23-2003, 01:10 PM	#10
Lindril Arvilya Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In a box at the end of Harrison Ford's street, with a pair of binoculars Posts: 336	We need a smiley face that's smiling with tears coming down it's face. I think everyone would have used it on this thread. __________________ Neo, watch out! Trinity's going to steal your pants! Pants thief! Pants thief!

03-23-2003, 09:31 PM	#11
Sophia the Thunder Mistress Scent of Simbelmynë Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Aboard Highwind, bound for Traverse Town Posts: 1,834	Yeah, it reminds me about that thread I saw somewhere about "eucatastrophe"...it was a really good thread, I wish I knew how to make links on here. frustration But I think this is one of those soul-piercing joy moments that Tolkien defined as "eucatastrophe". __________________ The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me!