WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Gwath? Nerwen? Either of you around?

It would be better if you all voters would be around... It's no use us ghosts talking without you guys who make the decisions.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Though, I still think the key is why Nerwen wasn't killed, and why you...would Izzy have gotten rid of someone who would likely vote against her, to keep you and Gwath, but also make her look more guilty by killing Nerwen? Or is Gwath hoping to use Nerwen's strong suspicion against Izzy, to vote for her, and put this game away?

I've been going over and over it in my head, and I just don't know. At first I was astonished that Shasta got it, but now I can see reasons why either of them might have killed him rather than me: a Gwathwolf could be using my suspicion of Izzy; an Isawolfkya could have been afraid that killing me would point straight to her.

However– a Gwathwolf shouldn't have had too much trouble getting someone other than himself lynched anyway.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now this is an interesting reaction to someone making plain pure sense and weighing the different possible scenarios... An innocent - even if one that would end up suspected by that kind of analysis - wouldn't react that way, I'd suppose. "Nice try"?

An innocent who wasn't Izzy. Attacking anyone who looks at her sideways is actually one of her trademarks.

Really, though, if it were anyone else but Izzy in the dock I wouldn't be hesitating... but this is a player with a history of acting in a horribly suspicious way as an innocent.

I think– note that I'm only meaning this in the context of WW! – she has a genuine problem with understanding how she appears to others.

CF: her comments toDay:

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

If you think I'm the "best choice" then show/prove it.
And no, I've haven't done anything in my power to look suspicious.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I think "logically" it would be Gwath the mutineer and Nerwen the probable Cobbler; if you believe Greenie's claim.

If you were paranoid, and trying to delve into conspiracy-land Nerwen would be the Mutineer - and both Gwath and I as the innocents.

EDIT:X'd since Brinniel at 1276

[Gwathagor]

It is conceivable that Greenie is lying about being the seer as either Wilwa, who was modfired, or Mira, who's out of touch, could be the real seer and we would never know. If Greenie is just a cobbler, then it opens up the possibility (however slim) that Nerwen may be a mutineer - which would support the odd fact that she has never been night-killed, despite being the closest thing we have to a live known innocent. Slim chance, though. More than likely, I reckon it'll come down to me and Izzy.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

It is conceivable that Greenie is lying about being the seer as either Wilwa, who was modfired, or Mira, who's out of touch, could be the real seer and we would never know. If Greenie is just a cobbler, then it opens up the possibility (however slim) that Nerwen may be a mutineer - which would support the odd fact that she has never been night-killed, despite being the closest thing we have to a live known innocent. Slim chance, though. More than likely, I reckon it'll come down to me and Izzy.

It's difficult for me to imagine a real seer, modfired or just killed, who could not find some way to pop in just once and let everyone know to watch out for Greenie.
You're right: it is possible. It seems unlikely to me, however.

[Inziladun]

Another thought: Mira's computer apparently died suddenly, but Wilwa had time to ask Brinn herself to be modfired. Surely she would have taken a moment to enlighten us if she were a gifted?

[Gwathagor]

Maybe Izzy was trying to play cobbler yesterDay? Since at this point in the game we can't afford to lynch cobblers, it would be a good tactic for anyone to use and it would explain the obstinate craziness, anyway. Personally, however, I'm pretty sure both cobblers have been killed by now and are just talking a lot, trying to throw us off.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Another thought: Mira's computer apparently died suddenly, but Wilwa had time to ask Brinn herself to be modfired. Surely she would have taken a moment to enlighten us if she were a gifted?

Well - maybe, but it's also possible that Brinn would have thought that that would unbalance the game. I mean, would she have revealed Wilwa's role if she was a mutineer? Let's not get distracted, though.

[Nerwen]

More weirdness.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

If Gwath is a mutineer, and you think Eonwe, Lommy, and Mac as possible Mutineers - then why did all three of them vote for Gwath this day? Gwath was going to be lynched, until he voted for Annu. If Nerwen and him are mates (which I don't think is the case.) - then it could be argued that Nerwen was trying to save him. Of course, if she is a Cobbler, then she could've been trying to save a suspected MutieGwath.

Huh? How could Gwath and I be mates now? It's not just a matter of "not thinking it's the case"– it's impossible!

Note that my switch here was actually precipitated by Rikae's Hunter-reveal.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I think even Gwath was thinking I was a Cobbler or Mutie yesterDay.

Possible slip ( showing she knows he's not a wolf)?

EDIT: X'd since my last post.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Possible slip ( showing she knows he's not a wolf)?

Haha. "Even" Gwath?

[Nogrod]

Another interesting formulation...

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I reckon it'll come down to me and Izzy.

[Isabellkya]

Gwath.
I think he was talking about Wilwa coming and revealing that she was the seer - if she were. Since she had time to ask Brinn to mod-fire her.


-eyerolling at Nerwen-

You can't just take sentences out of context, and attempt to twist them to another meaning, and expect to get away with it Nerwen. You've been doing it -I've only noticed it in regards to myself- for sometime. I've called you on it numerous times.

You skipped over the part where I said I don't think it is the case of you and Gwath being MutieMates.

In the second portion, you are taking it out of context. Really Nerwen.
That was explaining why I think I'm still alive. Because I'm an easy lynch choice.

If you are going to try and say I'm a Mutie because of "weirdness", then you should've done it Days ago. Since it is in no way a new thing. Or "new information".


X'd with Gwath and Nog.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

You skipped over the part where I said I don't think it is the case of you and Gwath being MutieMates.

No, the point is, you can't logically consider it at all– it's now numerically impossible for there to be more than one wolf!

I'm not twisting your words. If you say weird and/or suspicious things, people will comment on it. Them's the breaks....

EDIT: spelling.

[Isabellkya]

I think even Gwath was thinking I was a Cobbler or Mutie yesterDay.

^
That is neither weird or suspicious. People question why they or someone else is alive all of the time. It is nothing new. For you to single it out and bring it out of the context, to call it a slip - is twisting it.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Another interesting formulation...

I may as well also point out that Nerwen's vote will end up being the decisive one, since neither Izzy nor myself can very well vote for Nerwen in good conscience, given Greenie's seer reveal. So I'll end up voting for Izzy and Izzy will likely vote for me and then Nerwen will choose who dies.

[Nogrod]

Putting my few cents in...

Looking at the overall situation you need to decide which scenario is the more believable: the one where we lynched a host (well at least two) mutineers on the first 4 Days or so and got them into a tight spot - or the one where we made two to three succesful lynches on the last three Days just narrowly avoiding defeat before it.

If the first is the right one, then it looks like Gwath is the mutineer, if the second, then it should be Izzy (also following from her own reasoning with Lommy's, Mac's and Eönwë's voting)...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

^
That is neither weird or suspicious. People question why they or someone else is alive all of the time. It is nothing new. For you to single it out and bring it out of the context, to call it a slip - is twisting it.

But why did you say "even Gwath?" Whether it is or not, that really does look like a slip.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Putting my few cents in...

Looking at the overall situation you need to decide which scenario is the more believable: the one where we lynched a host (well at least two) mutineers on the first 4 Days or so and got them into a tight spot - or the one where we made two to three succesful lynches on the last three Days just narrowly avoiding defeat before it.

If the first is the right one, then it looks like Gwath is the mutineer, if the second, then it should be Izzy (also following from her own reasoning with Lommy's, Mac's and Eönwë's voting)...

Uh, explain?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Putting my few cents in...

Looking at the overall situation you need to decide which scenario is the more believable: the one where we lynched a host (well at least two) mutineers on the first 4 Days or so and got them into a tight spot - or the one where we made two to three succesful lynches on the last three Days just narrowly avoiding defeat before it.

If the first is the right one, then it looks like Gwath is the mutineer, if the second, then it should be Izzy (also following from her own reasoning with Lommy's, Mac's and Eönwë's voting)...

I'm inclined to believe the latter scenario.

[Isabellkya]

I've already voted for Nerwen before Gwath.

If it comes down to Nerwen's vote. Then I'm sure we all can take a good guess at what it will be... and the village will lose.


X'd with Gwath x2 & Zil.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

^
That is neither weird or suspicious. People question why they or someone else is alive all of the time. It is nothing new. For you to single it out and bring it out of the context, to call it a slip - is twisting it.

Nope. Drawing attention to possible slips is just part of this game.

Izzy, I'm frankly getting a little tired of your apparent belief that you deserve some kind of special treatment not given to anyone else.

No doubt you will now say I'm "twisting" and "putting words in your mouth" again. Well, guess what? I'm tired of your endless "twisting" accusations too.

EDIT:X'd since Izzy at #1293. EDIT 2:word left out.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I may as well also point out that Nerwen's vote will end up being the decisive one

Agreed and being corrected of what you meant.

I too think it will come down to Nerwen to decide this. Unless that row between Nerwen and Izzy comes down to some crazy conclusions...

You saying that Gwath makes me think better of you - if that is of any comfort in this tight spot you guys are. I mean if Izzy were an innocent she would let go at least now as there are only forty minutes to go...

Originally Posted by Izzy

If it comes down to Nerwen's vote. Then I'm sure we all can take a good guess at what it will be... and the village will lose.

Sounds like wolf-talk to my ears...

[Isabellkya]

You'd been gone for how many Days? Yet you come back and at first think it is innocent vs. innocent between Nerwen and I. Then I believe you jumped on the Izzy-is-a-Cobbler Wagon.


X'd with Nerwen and Nog.

[Nogrod]

Cool down Izzy...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

You'd been gone for how many Days? Yet you come back and at first think it is innocent vs. innocent between Nerwen and I. Then I believe you jumped on the Izzy-is-a-Cobbler Wagon.


X'd with Nerwen and Nog.

Which post is this a response to? Inzy's?

[Inziladun]

I thought she was referring to Nogrod.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Which post is this a response to? Inzy's?

She means you, I think.

[Isabellkya]

Since when do I believe I deserve special treatment?

I could've sworn I was the only one in my head.
But then again. This is WW. So apparently when you play WW, people from different parts of the world are capable of developing psychic powers and actually being inside my head while I think.

If that is true. Then I think I should be paid some kind of fee, for hosting others inside my head.


Let go of what Nog?

Why shouldn't I expect Nerwen to vote for me?
She has been calling me a Cobbler and/or a Mutineer for Days. Yet has only voted for me once, I believe. If she thinks that way, then why isn't her vote talking?


X'd since my last post.

[Gwathagor]

It's hard to tell with all the posting.

[Nogrod]

I thought it was referring to Gwath and his three-Day off...

Please people, when you refer to something make it clear what you are referring to. Some people may post while you write and then it might be hard to see what your post relates with.

Hmph... best of talkers with three posts in between...

[Isabellkya]

My #1302 was in response to Gwath's #1296.


X'd since my last post.

[Gwathagor]

Well, Izzy? Who were youreplying to? Not trying to be dense, just trying to figure out who you were talking to.

Oh, crossed with Izzy, sorry. Thanks.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Since when do I believe I deserve special treatment?

I could've sworn I was the only one in my head.
But then again. This is WW. So apparently when you play WW, people from different parts of the world are capable of developing psychic powers and actually being inside my head while I think.

If that is true. Then I think I should be paid some kind of fee, for hosting others inside my head.


Let go of what Nog?

Why shouldn't I expect Nerwen to vote for me?
She has been calling me a Cobbler and/or a Mutineer for Days. Yet has only voted for me once, I believe. If she thinks that way, then why isn't her vote talking?

On the contrary. I have been trying to make allowances for you!

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

My #1302 was in response to Gwath's #1296.

Oh, well in that case I wish I could show the piece of paper I scribbled the idea down on when I thought of it, right before I fell asleep to show you that I really did come up with it on my own. You'll just have to take my word for it that I wasn't getting on any kind of bandwagon.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Let go of what Nog?

Well, I didn't exactly say "let go" but "cool down"... but anyway. The same message.

Whatever you feel there is no sense in you wasting your energy and time picking it up with Nerwen. Unless we have the most terrible seer we've ever had leaving her/his village in trouble, Nerwen is not the one you should lynch.

Just think about that.

So try to use your last half an hour either showing why Nerwen should believe Gwath should be lynched - or why you shouldn't. If you're an innocent you know very well what I mean: your goal as an innocent is not to fight with Nerwen but to secure the village win.

That row makes no sense at this point. It looks more like a distraction - or evil.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Oh, well in that case I wish I could show the piece of paper I scribbled the idea down on when I thought of it

To clarify, I mean the idea that you were playing cobbler yesterDay.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

That row makes no sense at this point. It looks more like a distraction - or evil.

It wouldn't make sense for an evil player, either, which is the weird thing.

No, well, actually it might make sense if Izzy was a mutineer trying to look like a cobbler trying to get lynched, which would theoretically avert Nerwen's suspicion to me.

[Macalaure]

15 minutes to go... no votes yet... suspense!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So try to use your last half an hour either showing why Nerwen should believe Gwath should be lynched - or why you shouldn't. If you're an innocent you know very well what I mean: your goal as an innocent is not to fight with Nerwen but to secure the village win.

That row makes no sense at this point. It looks more like a distraction - or evil.

Agreed. Izzy, you seem to have spent an inordinate amount of time claiming you are innocent and calling people out for questioning you, but I haven't seen much as to why it should be clear you are innocent.
If you are, I think now would be the time to bring all to the forefront.

[Nogrod]

I could believe Lommy and Mac staged that fight. In a game where nothing is revealed they could afford it - and Lommy was going to a long trip with no net connection so she would get herself lynched with that kind of behaviour if it helped their cause (well it didn't in the end but the scenario is still possible). Now if Eönwë was a mutineer as well (or Sally in place of any of the three) that would make sense why they voted for Gwath as he's an innocent then.

Whatever, I'm bending towards believing we made it really poorly in the beginning and picked our act together in the last few Days.

The way Gwath and Izzy post right now would point into that direction.

I mean this looks actually quite innocent Gwath:

Oh, well in that case I wish I could show the piece of paper I scribbled the idea down on when I thought of it, right before I fell asleep to show you that I really did come up with it on my own.

And this doesn't look like an innocent trying to solve the problem half an hour before the final deadline:

Originally Posted by Izzy

Why shouldn't I expect Nerwen to vote for me?
She has been calling me a Cobbler and/or a Mutineer for Days. Yet has only voted for me once, I believe. If she thinks that way, then why isn't her vote talking?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

15 minutes to go... no votes yet... suspense!

No sense in waiting, since it would take a seer reveal to change my mind about Nerwen.

++Izzy