The Nature of Magic in Middle-Earth

[Felagund]

What exactly is the Nature of Magic in Middle-Earth? From the Tale of Beren and Luthien, we see Luthien do alot of "magical" things, such as sing all Angband to sleep, and make her hair grow so she can weave a rope out of it. Celebrimbor creates the Three Rings, and Gandalf makes really neat fireworks, but really, magic is not particularly predominant in LoTR. My theory is that, in lieu of magic, Tolkien substitues Virtue.

By virtue, I mean, by the beauty, or holiness of something, that it worked a kind of power. I don't recall anyone actually "casting" spells or anything like that, but rather than by their virtue they can exhibit a kind of power over situations or events.

I don't feel like I'm putting this into the right words... can anyone say it better? Or disagree too, for the sake of discussion.

[bilbo_baggins]

Welcome to the downs, Felagund. I see that you are a new poster.

I will have to disagree, Felagund. For one thing, the Numenoreans under the mountain have been cursed by Isildur, and that is something like casting a spell. Secondly, the words that Gandalf quotes in the Council were certainly not just some sort of Virtue; it must have been a black magic. Thirdly, how do you account for Morgoth and Sauron, etc. having magic-like powers if they certainly don't have Virtue?

There has to be a certain inalienable magic in Middle-Earth. I admit, it doesn't play as prevalent a role as it does in other movies and stories, but there must certainly have been a magic of some kind.

Perhaps I didn't quite understand you're meaning of 'Virtue', though.

b_b

[Felagund]

By virtue, it seems like there are beings of power, even if they are not 'magical' per se. Elrond refers, in the FoTR, to the "power of Rivendell" and the "power of Bombadil's house". I do not see any inherent 'magic' in these two places, but rather that have 'power' by the virtue of their inhabitants. Elrond is no sorceror, nor is there a particular strength of warriors there, but he forsees that Rivendell could hold out for long against the onslaught of Sauron.
Or, when Celebrimbor forges the Three, and they are magic, I don't think it is because he makes three pretty trinkets and casts a spell on them, but rather that he imparted a portion of his inherent 'power' into each of them. The power of such things, I believe, is the power of Arda. The elves are of the stuff of Arda, and are bound to it, and there power is the very power of the world itself. Celebrimbor is of mighty lineage (descended of Fëanor), and has a greater portion of power than would others.

I think here is the example I am looking for. When Glorfindel chases off the Ringwraiths who are pursuing the company towards the fords of Bruinen. He strikes no blows, nor is there mention of anything 'magical' or 'sorcerous' about Glorfindel, but by his 'virtue', i.e. the cleanliness of his spirit, and the power of Arda within him, the Ringwraiths are driven off.

However, on the other side of the line, perhaps there is 'magic' in evil? There was the Witch King who was a mighty sorceror, and Minas Morgul was named the Tower of Sorcery. Sauron's 'black arts' are also referred to. But you never hear the word magic used implicitly when pertainign to anything good.

Am I explaining myself here? I know what I mean, I'm just not sure if I'm saying it right.

[bilbo_baggins]

Originally Posted by Felagund

By virtue, it seems like there are beings of power, even if they are not 'magical' per se. Elrond refers, in the FoTR, to the "power of Rivendell" and the "power of Bombadil's house". I do not see any inherent 'magic' in these two places, but rather that have 'power' by the virtue of their inhabitants. ...

... Or, when Celebrimbor forges the Three, and they are magic, I don't think it is because he makes three pretty trinkets and casts a spell on them, but rather that he imparted a portion of his inherent 'power' into each of them.

Nice comments, Felagund. One thing I noted is that you say that the Houses of Elrond and Bombadil have instead of magic, a sort of virtue from the righteousness of their character. Sort of a can't blame me for anything, you can't do anything to me? Hmmm. Maybe, but there is still an element of mystery and mystery is where the magic is and truly lies. Perhaps you should read "Leaf by Niggle" if you want some weird fictional magic-like stories by Tolkien. But how can an evil man have virtue? Down in the nitty-gritty, evil is just doing anything that is necessary to obtain desires of the self, usually to the great detriment of others. Where is a virtue in that?

The definition of 'virtue' (Webster's New Twentieth, Unabridged) is:
1. general moral goodness; right action and thinking; uprightness; rectitude; morality.
2. a particular moral quality regarded as good or meritorious; as, the virtue of generosity; specifically, in philisophy and theology,any of the cardinal virtues or theological virtues.
3. chastity, especially in women.


I think we can disregard the latter, and that leaves with general moral goodness, and a particular quality of goodness. Sauron, Saruman, Morgoth, and any number of other creatures have no such thing.

For another thing, Celebrimbor could not have put a portion of his own power into the rings, or else they would not have been able to be controlled by Sauron. How could Sauron have controlled something that someone else controlled? (Celebrimbor would have had a connection with his three (or was it, 19?) rings, like Sauron had with the One) And then, the rings would only have been as powerful as a fading elf in the Grey Havens. Celebrimbor could not have put magic into the rings that way. As to how they got the magic, I cannot tell right now; I will look into it more deeply.

b_b

[Felagund]

Well, 'virtue' is probably not the best word for it. What I still am trying to say, if I could find the right words, is that there is some 'root' of power in all virtuous and good things, though there may be no magic ability. All Elves are "magical" in some way, because they have the power of Arda in them, as they are made of the stuff of the Earth, and are bound to it.

When I said Celebrimbor put his power into the rings, I don't mean in the amnner that Sauron did, in that he diminished himself in their making. I mean rather, in the same way Fëanor created the Silmarils, he put in all his power, and his craft, and his skill into the making of those hallowed jewels, and they were bound up in the life and Doom of their maker. Fëanor did not diminish in their making, but rather, they were made by way of his power. No where is ever Fëanor called a sorceror either.

By the way, I am freely admitting that the Evil side uses 'magic' in it's real form. Sauron was known as the Necromancer for a time. Minas Morgul was called the Tower of Sorcery because the Witch King abode there. However, you never actually see magic spells or anything be cast, anywhere in the books at all.

However, I don't know what Tolkien's intentions were as to magic, since I am not him, and am not an expert in his letters. This discussion was opened to be a discussion, and to hear other people's theories. Come on people, let's hear some!




-Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures they have sworn to pursue.

[Mithalwen]

There are other threads that have already looked at this. I just mention this since Felagund is a new downer and the Powers-that-be usually prefer old threads to be revived unless they are radically different. I have bumped a couple up for your convenience. Yes one happens to be one of mine but I have revived it since there are some great posts by other people.