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Old 12-25-2002, 09:00 PM   #1
Morquesse
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Sting PJ answers questions about TTT

(Here's one)<BR><I>'In the book, for example, Faramir is very pure and very noble, but here in the film, he's got this evil touch. He's even tempted by the ring.'</I><P><B>Peter Jackson:</B> 'For a short time, yeah. We made that change, just to use that example -- and this is really where being a filmmaker differs from being a writer. You make decisions as a filmmaker and, rightly or wrongly, you change things if you think they need to be changed. We wanted the episode with Faramir in this particular film to have a certain degree of tension. Frodo and Sam were captured. Their journey had become more complicated by the fact that they are prisoners. Which they are in the book for a brief period of time. But then, very quickly in the book, Tolkien sort of backs away from there and, as you say, he reveals Faramir to be very pure. At one point, Faramir says, "Look, I wouldn't even touch the ring if I saw it lying on the side of the road." <P>'For us, as filmmakers, that sort of thing creates a bit of a problem because we've spent a lot of time in the last film and in this one to establish this ring as incredibly powerful. Then to suddenly come to a character that says, "Oh, I'm not interested in that," to suddenly go against everything that we've established ourselves is sort of going against our own rules. We certainly acknowledge that Faramir should not do what Boromir did and that he ultimately has the strength to say, "No, you go on your way and I understand." We wanted to make it slightly harder, to have a little more tension than there was in the book. But that's where that sort of decision comes from.'<P>There is more at:<BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.greencine.com/article?1=1&action=view&articleID=62" TARGET=_blank>http://www.greencine.com/</A><P>~M
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Old 12-25-2002, 09:05 PM   #2
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Tolkien

I'm not sure if I'm satisfied by that answer or not. In the book Faramir didn't say or mean, "I'm not interested in that" he just knows what it could do to him and makes the right decision after some quick soul-searching. If he had taken Frodo a little ways, it wouldn't have irked me in the slightest, but all the way to Osgiliath? That was a bit much. But, I've seen it quite a few times and this new 'more troubled' Faramir is starting to grow on me.
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Old 12-25-2002, 09:48 PM   #3
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In the book I really liked the part with Faromir because it showed that not ALL men are corrupted badly by the Ring.In the movie they keep up the bad reputation of men in Gondor.<P>*~Marsyas~*
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Old 12-25-2002, 11:33 PM   #4
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Sting

That would also explain one of the reasons why they left out Tom Bombadil, since he was affected by the Ring even less then that...but i'm still not satisfied! Sorry, PJ, but there's just no excuse for that one!
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Old 12-26-2002, 01:33 AM   #5
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The don't watch it for crying out loud. You act as if he just stole one of your children. Its a movie its not the book and never will be the book. If you can't accept that explanation and say "oh ok, thats what i thought, ok I'll by that for the sake of a great movie." then you never will and just shouldn't even attend ROTK. There is a point when critque becomes blaintant hatred and unacceptance despite all reasoning. Many of you have crossed that line.<P>I like it. They set up this premace slightly different from the book and stuck to it even though they knew it would upset some people. Courage. They stuck to their guns and that makes these movies great.<p>[ December 26, 2002: Message edited by: GreyIstar ]
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Old 12-26-2002, 06:05 AM   #6
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Sting

Grey Istar, your reply I must say stirs up the pot more than Hawkeye's.<P>Folks are free to express their opinions here as long as they do not attack other board members or use orcish language.<P>I suppose insulting Tolkien himself could also be grounds for problems.<P>However, critiquing the movies [ and oh are they asking for it from a Books oriented Tolkien site] <B>is totally acceptable here</B>, what I find <B>unacceptable</B> is your reasoning: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>There is a point when critque becomes blaintant hatred and unacceptance despite all reasoning. Many of you have crossed that line.<BR>I like it. They set up this premace slightly different from the book and stuck to it even though they knew it would upset some people.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You acknowledge that they knew it [ the changes in the movies] would upset some people but here you are telling someone not to be upset.<P>hmm sounds as if <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> There is a point when critque becomes blaintant hatred and unacceptance despite all reasoning. Many of you have crossed that line. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> is a 2way street.<P>As a mod I want to underline the following - please let us all tolerate the opinions of each other, the alternative is not pretty and the downs will not allow it. We have worked hard to keep a very warm and friendly spirit here, so if you can not debate and argue in that fashion then do not.<p>[ December 26, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]
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Old 12-26-2002, 12:53 PM   #7
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Tolkien

*feels the tension building* hey, calm down guys. PJ did what he thought needed to be done. And don't worry, after the fourth time, Faramir doesn't seem half bad. Just focus on all his thoughtful expressions and pretend that he's going through inner turmoil. My mom and I tolerate it like this: He doesn't want the ring, he just wants it for his father. He wants his dear old dad to remember that he does have another son!
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Old 12-26-2002, 02:01 PM   #8
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Sting

mortal elf, my 'tension building' post has nothing [or very little] to do with the movie it has to do with how people are posting and treating other posters. <P>Some of the movie fans react to criticism of the movie with blanket relpies of <UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>then make your own movie<LI>then don't see it<LI>then don't post here</UL> and many other equally trite and evasive replies. These are essentially invalidating a person's right to be here and post a response [positive or negative] within the acceptable standards.<P>The Downs will not tolerate people being negated like that, in defense of the Movie or any other subject related to Tolkien.<P>I hope I have made myself clear without ruffling any more feathers. but it is a point that seems to need addressing over and over.
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Old 12-26-2002, 02:02 PM   #9
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Well, as I've discussed elsewhere the dramatic tension thing is of course true, as are other fixations of these film-makers -- be they appropriate or obsessive -- of (i) high character contrast and (ii) the power-hungry wrap on Men.<P>The point about sustaining the premise of the Ring's great power is a misleading defence. Frodo comes in contact with all sorts of people, from Gandalf on down (with Aragorn being the only Man) who are willing to let the Ring go. Boromir could have been NO different in Book or on Film, except that he was near the Ring for so long and was so dispairing of saving Gondor.<P>Indeed, Faramir is arguably not tempted by the Ring directly on Film. Upon finding out about something that he didn't know, but needed to investigate, he merely confronts Frodo rhetorically in the movie. Otherwise, the scenes merely show Faramir as being in great haste, obviously not having the chance to weigh matters as in the Book, and still being bound by fairly straightforward laws for obvious security reasons. This is after all a battleground, albeit one more hectic than in the Book.<P>So, Mr. Jackson is blowing smoke with that answer about the whole ring, what was really driving it is the filmmakers':<BR>1. Obsession with Dramatic Tension<BR>2. Fixation on 180-degree character development<BR>3. Theme of Men as corruptible power mongers<BR>4. Need to do some more scary stuff with Nazguls in Osigiliath.<P>All this is not to say that they weren't still good film-making decisions which work, despite some departures from the Book in terms of what really amount to little more than lost dialogue and juxtapositions of time and place.<P>But he should defend these decisions on the basis of his true inclinations, not on some misleading point about the Ring's evil. He could have done things in any variety of different ways, and still not have used Faramir's comment about finding it on the road, which even in the Book can come off sounding naive, notwithstanding Book-Faramir's manifest nobility.<p>[ December 26, 2002: Message edited by: Man-of-the-Wold ]
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Old 12-26-2002, 02:24 PM   #10
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Sting

Ya know, I re-read the Faramir part and noticed that he isn't very much different there than he is in the movie. Sure, Mr. Jackson has him take the corruption thing a little far, (*cough* Osgiliath! *cough*) but he says many of the same things and acts much the same way. If you don't believe me, go back and read it again.<P>And I really did love the movie! I just enjoy critiquing it, not bashing Peter Jackson.
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Old 12-26-2002, 02:41 PM   #11
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TolkienGurl, I concur. And, in reference to this Topic's origin, I would say that Mr. Jackson could made that case instead of falling back on baloney about the Ring's great evil, but the publicity people probably puts words in his mouth.<P>He could note that look, 'Faramir really goes through much of the same transitions and dilemmas that the Book-character faces,' but look, 'I couldn't do the whole in-depth dialogue, and besides, my film-making method compels me to make the tension more real and unrelenting.' Also, 'I felt that I had to make the portrayal of Faramir's realization and growth more visually apparent.'"<P>The only point where his defence would break-down, and the Film-makers made unnessary and indefensible decisions is with respect to what is voiced in the background narrative about Faramir by Galadriel, which is that old chestnut of how Men are weak, corrupt, and power-hungry. While this doesn't entirely contradict Tolkien, it overly simplifies the relevant morale in the Books in a way that only detracts from the Film.<P>For Tolkien it is Fear of Death and Fear in general that leads to such weakness and lust for power. The Film-makers hardly need to belabour this; indeed, it should go unsaid, but they also in no way need to overdramatize the whole power-trip thing, instead!
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Old 12-26-2002, 06:43 PM   #12
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Sting

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Grey Istar, your reply I must say stirs up the pot more than Hawkeye's. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good that was my intent. He gave no basis of why it is unacceptable. His critique is simply it isn't the same as the book. To me that just won't cut it. Better start ripping a part the Fellowship if you want to critique Two Towers because that is when this process started and from there it just followed a natural transition. You better start telling me how bad they changed Aragorn because that is where this thing started.<P>This is a site based on the books, but the book are not the movies and themovies are not the books. Maybe this site shouldn't discuss the movies at all and just stick to the books because the confusion is becoming apparent.
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Old 12-27-2002, 07:29 AM   #13
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<B>lindil</B> has stated the Barrow-Downs policy on discussions very well - differing opinions are acceptable, impoliteness is not. Please stick to the topic being discussed and stay away from personal insults. Thank you!
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Old 12-27-2002, 09:13 AM   #14
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I'm still not satisfied with PJ's answer but i guess this was just to make the movie MORE interesting though the part to Osgiliath was a bit too much! <BR>Oh well, just stick to the books and imagine that Faramir is a really nice man while watching the movie!
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Old 12-27-2002, 12:16 PM   #15
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Unlike a lot of the people here, I was very saticfied with PJ's answer.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>That would also explain one of the reasons why they left out Tom Bombadil, since he was affected by the Ring even less then that...but i'm still not satisfied! Sorry, PJ, but there's just no excuse for that one! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sorry, but that last sectence kind of made me sick to my stomach.
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