Bombadil and The Istari

[Dondagnirion]

I recently purchased a copy of UT (Unfinished Tales) and when I was reading about the Istari I noticed something. It said that the two blue wizards that came to Middle Earth with Saruman and Gandalf and Radaghast and traveled east with Saruman. It also says that after that point no one knows what became of them.

Is it at all possible that Bombadil may be one of these blue wizards? It did describe In The Adventures Of Tom Bombadil that he went traveling far and wide fighting strange beasts, so I thought it may be a possibility. I also thought that at the Council Of Elrond that Gandalf obviously knew more about Bombadil than he was letting on, since he said "He would not have come". Gandalf therefore must have known why he would not have come and logically knew quite a bit about him since no other at the council really knew wether or not he would come or if he had the power to destroy the ring, both of which Gandalf knew. Just thought I would float one of my wierd theories, give me your thoughts.

Dondagnirion
"He who cannot cast a treasure away at need is in fetters." - Aragorn

[Jurion]

I personally don't think so, if Bombadil was an Istari wouldn't he have to be influenced by the Ring when he put it on. But the Ring didn't have any effect on him.

[ January 15, 2003: Message edited by: Jurion ]

[Falagar]

He may have been a very strong Maia, stronger then Sauron.

But personally I believe he was something like a forest-spirit.

[Sharkû]

That would make Tom of Maiarin origin which he very clearly was not. Don't ask why, rather search [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Legolas]

If Tom was a wizard, he would've been affected by the Ring, which he clearly was not.

Tolkien also says this of the Blue Wizards:

Of these Curunír was the eldest and came first, and after him came Mithrandir and Radagast, and others of the Istari who went into the east of Middle-earth, and do not come into these tales.

Bombadil does come into the tales, ruling him out.

He does give the Blue Wizards names - Alatar and Pallando. He calls them 'Morinehtar and Romestamo' in HoME XII: The Peoples of Middle-earth, but Alatar and Pallando are widely accepted as their names.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

The East Wizards are a complictaed couple. It seems Tom has been around M-E for a longer time then the Istari, even if we take the theory that they came in the second age. Tom is proably an enigma, or the second case scenario is that he is a Maia.

[Aratlithiel]

Tom is timeless and ageless as far as Middle-earth is concerned. He and Treebeard were among the first to live there - even before the Elves and before the First Age. The Istari did not arrive until the beginning of the Third Age.

(From LotR, Council of Elrond) I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First..."

[Inderjit Sanghera]

We do not know if Ents were awoken before Elves.

[Galorme]

Behold! When the children awake, the thought of Yavanna shall awake also

[Inderjit Sanghera]

So the Ents awoke around about the same time as the Elves? Where did they awake is what I want to know I fancy they woke in Fangorn and were taught non-Entish languages by the Nandor. Thye proably went to Beleriand, whilst some of the entwives went to Eriador, to teach some of the men about the tilling of the earth (The Borrim) in the 1st age.

[Legolas]

Tom is timeless and ageless as far as Middle-earth is concerned. He and Treebeard were among the first to live there - even before the Elves and before the First Age. The Istari did not arrive until the beginning of the Third Age.

While you're right about Tom, what follows is a bit off. The Istari were in the World from near the beginning, although not in their form as old men. Tom isn't only referring to Middle-earth, but Arda as a whole. Valinor was in Arda just as Middle-earth was. Their spirits are what really count as far as age in Ea is concerned. They, too, are timeless and ageless.

We do presume Tom has been in the world longer, however, since he's been there since the Dark Lord came from outside [and subsequently, all of the other Valar/Maiar]:

Don’t you know my name yet? That’s the only answer. Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless? But you are young and I am old. Eldest, that’s what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

Also, Treebeard is among the oldest as far as he knows - it is true according to his knowledge, but that knowledge is limited.. Tolkien makes it clear that Treebeard's words should be taken cautiously. Treebeard is not one of the Wise, and there is much that he does not understand:

Treebeard is a character in my story, not me; and though he has a great memory and some earthy wisdom, he is not one of the Wise, and there is quite a lot he does not know or understand. He does not know what 'wizards' are, or whence they came (though I do, even if exercising my subcreator's right I have thought it best in this Tale to leave the question a 'mystery', not without pointers to the solution).

[ January 16, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ]

[Aratlithiel]

Legolas, are you following me? LOL [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[Aratlithiel]

Hmmm...although I can think of worse things than being followed by Legolas (or Boromir or Frodo Eomer or...I'm sorry, did I say that out loud?). Nevermind, forget I said anything. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]