another dumb question - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

steve · 07-23-2002, 08:48 PM

Laketown, was that just a seperate place, like Bree, or was it part of someplace, like gondor

piosenniel · 07-23-2002, 09:23 PM

First, welcome to the Downs.

Second, here is a link to an exceedingly helpful site where you can fill in your knowledge of Tolkien characters, places, wars, etc., etc.

"The Encyclopedia of Arda" '

click HERE

Birdland · 07-23-2002, 09:47 PM

Hello Steve (That's a fine, Hobbit name!)

Lake-Town (or Esgaroth) was a town founded by Men after their earlier town of Dale was destroyed by the dragon Smaug. Tyler in "The Tolkien Companion" calls it a "city-state", but I think she is being kind.

It seems these Men had no country, per se, but had settled in the Dwarf Kingdom of Erebor, which included the Lonely Mountain and the surrounding countryside. (They were self governed though, not ruled by the dwarves.) I suppose you could consider the Kingdom of Erebor to be a part of the Wilderland, though the map I have is kinda vague.

To make matters more confusing, after the events in The Hobbit, The town of Dale was rebuilt and Bard and his heirs became the "Kings of Dale." I never thought that a Town could be considered a Kingdom, but there it is.

Anorien · 07-24-2002, 12:29 AM

Like the name! At first, I thought it was a place like Bree, but now I'm not sure. Have you read the books? They would be a big help! Welcome to the Downs! Enjoy being dead. "May your rest be long and peaceful..."

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 07-24-2002, 08:37 AM

When the Dwarves and Bilbo are heading for the Mountain, don't they pass through the countryside of Dale? I think Dale might have been a small kingdom unto itself that traded between the Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain and the outside world. That would mean Esgaroth is the survivors of Dale.

Kuruharan · 07-24-2002, 09:09 AM

Quote:

That would mean Esgaroth is the survivors of Dale.

Yes and no. Yes, the survivors of Dale (such as there were) went to Laketown. However, the town had been there from a long time before.

Dale was not a kingdom before Bard. The rulers are referred to as "lords of Dale." While they were not directly ruled by the Dwarves, a certain dependency of the Men to the Dwarves seems to have tacitly existed. That was the usual way of things whenever Men were living near the kingdoms of Dwarves. The Dwarves seemed to like taking something of a mild hegemony over their human neighbors.

steve · 07-24-2002, 09:42 AM

thanks, i know im askin stupid Qs but im just trying to get my informcation percise, and askin it is alot easier then goin back through all the books again to find it

07-23-2002, 08:48 PM	#1
steve Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edoras... er, Philadelphia Posts: 191	another dumb question Laketown, was that just a seperate place, like Bree, or was it part of someplace, like gondor __________________ MAGIC SHOP! Spells of Mass Destruction 20% off! Today Only!

07-23-2002, 09:23 PM	#2
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,816	First, welcome to the Downs. Second, here is a link to an exceedingly helpful site where you can fill in your knowledge of Tolkien characters, places, wars, etc., etc. "The Encyclopedia of Arda" ' click HERE __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

07-24-2002, 12:29 AM	#4
Anorien Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Old Navy of Rohan Posts: 138	Like the name! At first, I thought it was a place like Bree, but now I'm not sure. Have you read the books? They would be a big help! Welcome to the Downs! Enjoy being dead. "May your rest be long and peaceful..." __________________ FRODO: all low and retarded Oh Mr. Frodo, do you have any more food? Here eat mine, I’m so fat. How about I carry the ring for you. It’s soooo pretty, I mean heavy! SAM: Why you little-! FRODO: You asked for it!

07-24-2002, 08:37 AM	#5
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	When the Dwarves and Bilbo are heading for the Mountain, don't they pass through the countryside of Dale? I think Dale might have been a small kingdom unto itself that traded between the Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain and the outside world. That would mean Esgaroth is the survivors of Dale. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

07-24-2002, 09:42 AM	#7
steve Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edoras... er, Philadelphia Posts: 191	thanks, i know im askin stupid Qs but im just trying to get my informcation percise, and askin it is alot easier then goin back through all the books again to find it __________________ MAGIC SHOP! Spells of Mass Destruction 20% off! Today Only!

07-23-2002, 09:47 PM	#3
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,757	Hello Steve (That's a fine, Hobbit name!) Lake-Town (or Esgaroth) was a town founded by Men after their earlier town of Dale was destroyed by the dragon Smaug. Tyler in "The Tolkien Companion" calls it a "city-state", but I think she is being kind. It seems these Men had no country, per se, but had settled in the Dwarf Kingdom of Erebor, which included the Lonely Mountain and the surrounding countryside. (They were self governed though, not ruled by the dwarves.) I suppose you could consider the Kingdom of Erebor to be a part of the Wilderland, though the map I have is kinda vague. To make matters more confusing, after the events in The Hobbit, The town of Dale was rebuilt and Bard and his heirs became the "Kings of Dale." I never thought that a Town could be considered a Kingdom, but there it is.

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