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Old 02-28-2008, 08:55 AM   #201
Volo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka
I'm unsure about voting for Gwath just yet, something tells me that if we turn him into a fenris we might be cutting off any chance of catching other wolves, considering Gwath's pattern of 'agree' then 'disagree', and then going under the radar at times in relation to defending others.
Sorry, Ka, but I can't agree with you. Yes, one might learn more by leaving a newbie Wolf alive to have him/her make more mistakes, but mentioning so that he/she hears it isn't very useful. I'd like more of your, Ka, thoughts on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka
McCabbie (see? I can remember now it's not late... Sorry again Mac ), I really wish would give more reasoning and overall opinion on what others are saying about him, or at least some standing as for position. He is acting very, very different than from last time when he was an ordinary. As for suspicion he is rising on my list, but I am hesitant to vote immediately and brashly. I guess being quite from now on would cause him to loose his skin.
Has McCaber actually ever been Innocent? I think he started out in my game, where he was a Cobbler and after that played only in Farael's game where he, looking from what has been said now, a Wolf.

I can't say that either Ka is a Wolf or was confused, because she clearly was confused posting after the deadline. Other than that she talks a bit too much about Gwath, who was already on the way to the gallows by the time - which is odd. And if McCaber hasn't been Innocent, then her reasons for voting him are also invalid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
Sally’s death probably has the main goal to leave no track. I guess this is a good strategy in a giftless village. Nevertheless, it points towards careful wolves. Are they careful because it’s their nature, because they’ve been under strong suspicion already, or because it’s a cold-blooded strategy?
What I don't understand is: Why pick a no-trailer who causes confusion when other, less confusing, no-trailers are there to choose from. Maybe they thought her death would cause sufficient confusion, more than anybody else's death.

Both Boro voters are dead now. Does this point towards him being a wolf? I don’t think so. Sally went by gut when she voted him, so she would likely have changed her mind today. Boro was very sure about Sally’s innocence yesterDay and I’m not sure what to make of that.
Probably. Sally's death points at loud Wolves too, because it puts more pressure on the remaining quiet players. I hope you know what I mean.
I have a feeling that Boro is bluffing a great big deal right now. Sally's death, among other things points also at Boro, but I wouln't put it past him to "frame himself".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mith
If she had been killed instead of Sally we would have perhaps looked at her posts and found a clue.
To me, this looks suspicious. Or at the very least, I don't agree. Like Rikae later says, little can be found from the posts of Nightly targets. Especially in a game like this, the Wolves are free to kill anybody they want without the fear of being blocked by a Ranger and have no need to seek for a Seer in our posts. And only a Seer's posts truly need to be gone through to give any valid information. Not that one shouldn't read to what the dead have said, you know, they might be right about the Wolves too.


I have the same fault as Boro admits himself having, it seems. I feel more and more certain that he's up to no good. His whole post #171 screams Wolf. To me, Mith is like she always is. Otherwise his arguments are weak.
Quote:
Do you feel so "strongly" that you know I'm innocent?
Quote:
As pointed out Agan is not a viable option...but are you simply "guessing" sally went because of such and such...or do you know for a fact?
Everybody says things like that! I would even venture to say that Wolves say them less that others, because they bring an air of suspicion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noggie
What I mean is that he should not be underestimated because he wears a newbie-mask for a mask it is I must say: he was just superb in his first games. I'm not sure if this is enough to lynch him but if he's a submarine-wolf we can't but blame ourselves in the end. In the last two games people fell for it.
I might be doing wrong in defending McCaber, but this kind of explanation doesn't look too valid to me. I feel like newbie myself, although this is already my 12th game if Lommy's Grimoire post is to be trusted. I say self-conscious things about not playing well enough myself - you might have noticed - and truly mean them. It looks stupid and useless, but I can't help it.
I can't say that I completely trust McCaber, either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikae
Well, there we go. My top two suspects were innocent -- don't listen to me.
This makes me feel better about Rikae, although she really is such a crafty player that I shouldn't trust.


I've read through the the thread until Rikae's post I mention, I'll do the rest right now.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:02 AM   #202
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Here I go, defending Mac again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Little Green View Post
Argh. Now I really am confused.

Originally Posted by Mac
"Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't."

I wonder why has no one paid any heed to this little quote? That sounds like he knows Cabbie is a wolf. I mean, WHAT?
It doesn't look like that at all! I don't know how you could see it that way -- it seems quite clear to me that Mac is referring to the (well known) fact that wolves would prefer, in general, not to draw attention to themselves by casting the deciding vote. Regardless of the role of the person lynched -- if McCaber and Lommy were wolves together, she wouldn't actually want him lynched on day one, but going after him might make her look better if he's lynched later on -- if he's innocent and she's a wolf, she wouldn't want to be responsible for lynching an ordo and come under scrutiny -- and thus, would probably prefer to vote for Cab but see Gwath lynched.

Makes perfect sense to me -- now, what do I make of Greenie's theory? It's either an honest misunderstanding or a wolfish attempt to get the suspicion moving in a direction more agreeable to her (which probably means, if Greenie's a wolf, at least one other wolf is attracting suspicion toDay.)
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:15 AM   #203
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OK, on further reflection, it may be slightly more likely it was a wolf-slip on Mac's part (along the lines of knowing Cab is innocent, I think), than what I said above... the reason being, if Mac meant what I said above, I think he might have explained more thoroughly. Maybe not, though. I have to go to class now, see you in a couple hours...
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:30 AM   #204
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About the Mac thingy. Rikae and Lommy, well I hadn't really looked at it from that viewpoint at all. Might be, but if he really meant that I think he would have explained more if you know what I mean. So I'm still somewhat wary about Mac. However, up until he reappears and sheds some light on my little (green) conspiracy theory (sorry mates... couldn't resist ), I might as well look at the other players as well. (I mean, others than Mac or Cabbie.)

Some thoughts on Volo first. He looks bad. His vote was plain weird, and when put to question about it he gives a very vague explanation. The thing that worries me more is that when he comes back after that one, there have been several notions on how insufficient his explanation was, but he ignores them completely in his post. A possible interpretation: He realised his explanation was... well... leaky when people didn't buy it, and had the reaction I think is characteristic for wolves (or... ummm... me as a wolf? ); "if I say nothing about it, people will forget it, and I'm off from under the radar for a while." But... wait... isn't Volo too experienced a player to do that? But I can't think of another reason for his behaviour. I'd think an ordo would just want to explain himself properly and go on with business.

I might as well make a list. So:

Green zone (innocentish):
Nerwen
THE Ka
Same goes for both - just some weird "good vibes" I suppose.

Yellowish green zone (leaning innocentish):
Rikae
Lommy
Mith
Boro

Yellow zone (slightly suspicious):
...
No people on the yellow zone? Curious. Last time it was the red one that was empty. Just wondering where this leads, maybe next time the green one is empty...

Red zone (suspicious):
Volo
McCaber
Macalaure at least until he answers me.

No zone whatsoever (cannot say):
Durelin - just cannot read her at all.



EDIT: x-ed with Rikae
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:35 AM   #205
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The Gwathwagon

(early votes)
Sally -> Boro
Gwath -> Boro 2

(-46) Menel -> Mac (Boro 2, Mac 1)
(-27) Boro -> Gwath (Boro 2, Mac 1, Gwath 1)

(-9) Greenie -> Gwath (Boro 2, Gwath 2, Mac 1)

(-6) Rikae -> Gwath (Gwath 3, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-4) Mith -> Gwath (Gwath 4, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-3) McCaber -> Gwath (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1)

(-2) Dury -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 1)
(-2) Nogrod -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 2)
(-2) Volo -> Ka (trying to retract to Gwath) (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 2, The Ka 1)

(-1) Lommy -> McCaber (Gwath 5, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 3, The Ka 1)

(00) Mac -> Gwath (Gwath 6, Boro 2, Mac 1, McCaber 3, The Ka 1)

+ on overtime
The Ka -> McCaber

Did not vote: Nerwen


First notice: everyone who voted for Gwath was voting safe in a way that he had been suspected widely from quite early on the Day so anyone could just refer to that general suspiciousness of him.

Looking at the wagon I'd say Boro's starting vote was pretty safe as there had been a lot of discussion and suspicion on Gwath already at that point.

Greenie's vote doesn't look too good because she had first defended him lightly earlier into the Day but then turned around and only referred to suspicons others had made when she needed to vote.

Rikae agreed that he might be a bit too easy pick but still went for him stating that she sticks with her top suspect. What makes me uneasy about this is the logical and calculated feel I get from it. Innocents are unsure and insecure about their votes as it's bad for them if they get it wrong but the wolves can be cool and principled when they know everything is going their way...

Mith could already be quite sure Gwath was a goner - so was that the reason why she had to underline the "let's not lynch Boro" -thing so much as she actually had no specific reason to vote for Gwath but didn't want to look like someone who votes randomly at anyone who's not a fellow wolf? She even made that Boro remark one extra time after she had already voted...

McCaber I can see as voting to save himself... even if he denied that toDay which kind of makes me totally confused about him.

Mac's vote I don't get. The situation was over and everything was clear but still he says he would have rather voted for Lommy... So why did he vote for Gwath after saying himself he would like to give him at least one more Day?


It was such a nice wagon - seven people eg. about half of the Bombadil's house in the same wagon while many people said it wasn't looking like a good idea. Something fishy and a very good place for a wolf to hide in. The question remains who is it / are they? I need to give it a thought - and to finally turn towards toDay.

EDIT: X'd with a lot...
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:41 AM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikae View Post
Volo, no, the format isn't confusing, but the reasoning behind it is, and your explanation is not an explanation at all, insofar as, assuming you decided to vote for Gwath before hitting "post", there was no reason whatsoever to leave the Ka vote in. No reason, that is, except to make a bigger case that your vote was reluctant...?

And threatening people to keep them from looking at your vote is not an innocent looking thing to do (and draws more attention to you, not less!)
Ha! It is clear that I wanted more effect than what the vote on its own could have given and don't deny it. I was feeling that we were going into a wrong direction (you might remember how catastrofic the last game I played in was).
I'm not threatening anybody, although neither do I deny that it might not look like it. Just since I know I'm Innocent (and so on), I know that the Wolves could be eager to use a flaw like my vote as an easy excuse to get me lynched. So whoever jumps too eagerly to the conclution that I'm a Wolf might very well be a Wolf him/herself. Probably a newbie Wolf, though.
Think of Lommy's game, when everybody jumped at you because you played provocatively, that's what I mean. I was a Cobbler and was eager to vote for you.

Actually Nerwen is a great example of what I mean!
She doesn't actually mention anything new and her actions are what I'd expect a rather unexperienced Wolf to do:
An analysis about the Nightly victim, doesn't reveal anything.
Post #193, which doesn't actually tell much. All she says are quite general opinions, and she doesn't actually suspect anybody.
Then an easy vote for a possible (probable?) lynch candidate.
Played safely and smoothly.

(Oh dear, by now I've contradicted myself several times...)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ka
Good point. Mac, thank you, but that isn't the strongest point to make in arguing for my innocence or no. If I was a wolf arguing last night that killing Sally would be beneficial to diverting attention or just general confusion, I would agree, but I have more inclination to hit more to the point and save my own skin and any suspicion around me so that my fellow wolves would not loose anymore than they need to (as a wolf, you have to be oh so selfish for the greater good of wolfy kind.). Sally's attack was a good one, but I prefer an observation, wait for someone else to make the first move, then strike somewhere that is more generally to my benefit method, but not too obvious (like going after someone that has been hounding at you all Day... generally they are loud enough for other players to remember what they said.) so that it labels me or fellow wolves in the game the next Day.
Ka is mentioning her "observative method" already for more than the second time, I find it slightly suspicious.


Suspicious (more or less):
Nerwen
Boromir88
THE Ka

Innocent-ish:
Rikae
Mithalwen
McCaber

Can't figure, will have a look:
Nogrod
A Little Green

Nothing has caught my eye yet, will have a look:
Durelin
Macalaure
Meneltarmacil
Thinlómien


EDIT: Xd with all since my preveous post.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:52 AM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lily
Some thoughts on Volo first. He looks bad. His vote was plain weird, and when put to question about it he gives a very vague explanation. The thing that worries me more is that when he comes back after that one, there have been several notions on how insufficient his explanation was, but he ignores them completely in his post. A possible interpretation: He realised his explanation was... well... leaky when people didn't buy it, and had the reaction I think is characteristic for wolves (or... ummm... me as a wolf? ); "if I say nothing about it, people will forget it, and I'm off from under the radar for a while." But... wait... isn't Volo too experienced a player to do that? But I can't think of another reason for his behaviour. I'd think an ordo would just want to explain himself properly and go on with business.
I don't think you're being fair.
WHAT do you want me to answer to?
I mean I don't have more reasons than I said I had.

I didn't feel comfortable about the voting, because I was afraid that we were concentrating on wrong people while letting too many fly over the radar.
I "voted" for Ka the way I did because I was completely sure that the vote for Gwath would count, and I wanted to emphasise that I feel wrong with the voting.
However I didn't have the gut to vote Ka or anybody else simply because I hadn't concentrated enough on them and wouldn't have the hope to lynch them anyway.
Gwath looked more suspicious than McCaber and I admit that I followed Boro's word.

As you might have noticed (by now) from my preveous post that I don't want people to forget my vote.

Ok, enough about that. I got quite frustrated, that's why the rant. I assure you that I have posted my reasons and not only now.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:10 AM   #208
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Here's my final input and my vote will be here then I will be gone...and most likely for good.

I'll be honest I'm completely lost on far as where to go. After Gwath was found to be innocent, and sally dies (the one person I said I felt most comfortable as far as her innocence), I definitely feel some set up. I think there is one, maybe two wolves trying to get me lynched (Rikae, Volo) and one, maybe two, who are defending me trying to get on my good side (Mith, Thinlo).

As far as the latter, Thinlo seems the more innocent and genuine than Mith. As Thinlo remarked, I know Mith quite well, but I got nothing else on her than saying I don't trust her support for me.

Now, Mac enters the equation, and for today I feel most comfortable about Lily who's eye regarding Mac's comment on McCaber went completely unnoticed by me and everyone else.

++Mac

I got nothing else, although I would caution to pay attention to Menel, he's slipped in once today (maybe twice) and I don't think he's been mentioned at all. It's really hard to build something against someone who doesn't (or maybe can't) post as much. But to let one slip through is completely dangerous. So, Menel, time to put some pressure on you...please share your thoughts? input?
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:23 AM   #209
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Here's a quick defense. I'll be able to post more later.

To Lily, Lommy, and Rikae:

Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't.
This argument works for both, McCaber's guilt and innocence. If both were guilty, then Lommy was either taking a risk that the waggon would have succeeded, or she reckoned that it wouldn't, but would look risky enough to make one look good if the other got killed. In the case of Caber's innocence, it was risky because Lommy would have given a deciding vote to an innocent, or smart because it would look like she did while she was sure that she didn't.
I'm not claiming this idea was thought through well. I was actually quite confused about her vote. Anyway, I overlooked the crosspost, so this is rather redundant in regards to her.

To Nogrod
Quote:
Mac's vote I don't get. The situation was over and everything was clear but still he says he would have rather voted for Lommy... So why did he vote for Gwath after saying himself he would like to give him at least one more Day?
I wasn't aware of the votes McCaber received, so I didn't knew there was this alternative. It didn't look like I could get any support for lynching Lommy, and among Gwath, Boro and... me!, Gwath looked at least most suspicious.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:25 AM   #210
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Now I know why my yellow zone was so empty. I had accidentally left out both Nog and Menel, who would probably belong there, both of them. So:

Yellow zone (slightly suspicious):
Menel
Nogrod - something just doesn't sit right with him..

Other than that, I have little to say. I'm still waiting for Mac to appear, to see in what kind of a manner he denies my theory. Of course we can't derive straight conclusions from his answer, but I hope it will be of help.

Sorry folks - I'm a bit obsessed right now with this affair. Can't help it.


EDIT: x-ed with Mac *ahem*
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:46 AM   #211
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I'm going to ignore the tempation to go off on a huge rant right now.

Boro I'm split on. Sometimes he looks extremely suspicious, other times merely wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
This argument works for both, McCaber's guilt and innocence.
I was about to bring that up myself. Thank you.

As I have class very soon, I will return with some actual thought.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:04 AM   #212
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As far as the Boro seems innocent -thing goes, I think there was some confusion afoot. Let's take me for an example. I knew the vote count, but I was slightly confused about how many people really suspected Boro or wanted to lynch him. And whatever you say, he was one of the lynch candidates and so I felt necessary to state the fact that I don't want to vote him. Now, I don't know, but I could see many people thinking the same way I did so *gasp* I don't see anything that suspicious about the "Boro is innocent"-case you and some others are so enthusiastically examining. I mean, you may go on and do some research on it but I doubt it will bear fruit. It's a bit similar as analysing sally's posts in order to find out why she was killed: it might be useful but more probably isn't.

Volo's odd. I mean, he looks so foul it hurts. Only a tiny bit of the things he says looks even a tiny bit innocent. In the last two posts, I think he made hardly any sense at all. It seems weird he has so little opinion on a bunch of very all-over-the-place people (me, Mac and Menel) who have been debated a lot. It is especially weird as he states that nothing in us has caught his attention yet. I mean... what? How can someone have avoided forming an opinion on the three of us?

Yet there is something very innocentishly sincere in his frustrated tone too... argh. This game is doing no good to my nerves. It is so annoying: first, I learned not to trust my wits in ww, lately I've learned not ot trust my gut feelings either and now I'm completely paranoid about everything all the time.

I'm still a bit confused on this Mac-thingie... I'll comment it when I've formed my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCaber
I'm going to ignore the tempation to go off on a huge rant right now.
Actually, I would like you to go on and do so. So please do it if you feel like it at all anymore, I'm sure it would be interesting.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:22 AM   #213
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Hmm...Mac is still posting defenses of himself and Boro is convinced the wolves are setting him up, messing with his mind. Yes, both have gotten quite a bit of attention, but they seem to be harping on it a bit...but I don't know if that's particularly wolfish or not. Overly defensive? Maybe. Trying too much to look like they're shrugging it off? Maybe.

I don't know what Mith's doing but I don't think she's a wolf. She seems so very careless, as does McCaber. As does Volo. I guess I'm making the assumption that wolves are not overtly careless, and I guess really that could be a tactic as well.

Of course Mith's pulling a phantom-Sally. What I'm starting to feel like is that this is just going to turn into everyone promising they're not wolves and kissing and making up...

I am bothered by A Little Green because she seems so neat with her suspicions. She tries to be as focused as possible on one or two people to the point that to me it seems almost contrived.

On the other hand, I have similar bad feelings about Mac, and she brings up good points about him. Though I agree with Rikae that her interpretation of

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac
"Lommy gives the third vote for McCaber. A risky vote for a wolf if the Caberwaggon would have succeeded. A smart vote for a wolf in case she reckoned that it wouldn't."
was a bit off, as it can go either way - as Mac explains was his reasoning in his last post.

He is a little defensive, but not wanting to die isn't necessarily a sinister desire. And he's not he only one into himself.

Volo is confusing the heck out of me. I've never seen such long posts out of him!

Both Menel and McCab are barely here, and when they are, they seem rather in their own little worlds. I don't really know what to do with them.

Nerwen's no vote yesterDay hasn't been of any question... Her vote for Volo toDay seems rather safe, as does Menel's vote for McCab. Both of them don't seem to have much time for the game, which sucks for trying to get much on them. Bleh.

Lommy, Nogrod, Rikae...they all give me creepy feelings but I really have no clue. Though the beginning of Lommy's last post bothers me. She seems to be freaking a little. I understand frustration; I mean, I'm rather frustrated with the promises of innocence and the like (are you trying to appeal to people's compassion? cause you won't get that from me.. ), but my dear, regardless of if Boro was in danger or not it still seems odd to be so afraid to lose him. In a gifteds game we could leave it to suspecting giftedness (but then being so open about that would be really...not smart), but obviously we can't do it. But I agree that a great amount of energy shouldn't be put into investigating the *everybody loves Boro* theory.

I do wonder though what Lommy meant by this earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lommy
Ok Rikae is probably innocent, or then she is a wolf putting a lot of effort to seeming so.
Eh?

I am not talking about anyone else in this post because it is already way too long. *sigh* This WW thing has been good for one thing, anyway - avoiding homework doing...
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:24 AM   #214
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Ah, I just realized - my "similar bad feelings about Mac" statement means that I have similar bad feelings about Mac as A Little Green does, not about Little Green...make sense? Maybe? Oh well.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:27 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo
It's format isn't confusing, whoever makes a big deal about it might be trying to sidetrack the discussion.
Maybe they'd just would like a less strained explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo
As you might have noticed (by now) from my preveous post that I don't want people to forget my vote.
It was kindof hard not to forget or understand, despite all of the explanation.
I can understand the logic behind that, making sure that people don't fly over your vote and completely spew out nonesense, but usually if you are going to do that you'd explain the second day, make a link to the vote, and then allow others to interpret. If your vote was left in a single vote stage, there wouldn't be anything there that was either highly suspicious or confusing, thus with your explanation the next day it would be rather hard for others to list you as suspicious immediately.

That is the only reason why your vote confused me at first, because if you were trying to retract a vote, it would make more sense to simply post your second vote without the trail of thought. Anyways, now that its cleared up, I am still a bit suspicious, but I can understand some of the logic behind making sure your vote was read clearly.
Albeit very, very confusing and abrupt.

I'm wanting to believe that Volo was flustered, but as for experience it is becoming harder to swallow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo
but mentioning so that he/she hears it isn't very useful. I'd like more of your, Ka, thoughts on this.
Just like an experiment, I was trying to study the reaction. I know that if I say something, it obviously is out in the open and wolves probably won't do it. I wasn't as much interested in what Gwath would do, but what his fellow wolves would do. Talking about Gwath was purely a distraction and supposed to be banter.
Though, since Gwath was innocent, I am having to re-look at who I suspected before and reform any thought.


Unfortunately, I really have to go now, and would like to explain more but, I'll be late for my classes if I stay any longer. I should be back early enough to vote, though as of now I am horribly confused, hopefully thinking over all of this will clear my mind.


~ Ka
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:29 AM   #216
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I need to make some late dinner but I just saw this as I got home and thought it needed commenting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by McCab
I'm going to ignore the tempation to go off on a huge rant right now.
Actually, I would like you to go on and do so. So please do it if you feel like it at all anymore, I'm sure it would be interesting.
Agreed! I mean everytime you post you promise to write something and then you don't. That way you stay under the radar as no one thinks it "nice" to lynch you as you have not said so much. Looking at your last performances I'm getting a growing sense that's the way you play intentionally - and with success.

So please McCaber at last do what you have promised all the time and talk - or convince me that that's only your tactics to make boots of us at Nights with not talking your mouth.

I'll be back a bit later.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:37 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
Of course Mith's pulling a phantom-Sally. What I'm starting to feel like is that this is just going to turn into everyone promising they're not wolves and kissing and making up...
Good that you said that because it reminds me of what I wanted to say. I suspect Mith less ebcause she claimed so vocally that she's innocent. I mean, as a wolf, I would never do such a proclamation of innocence. I could say I'm innocent, but I would not make a show of it. It would feel so completely dishonest. Maybe I'm naive, but I instinctively assume other people be as honest/stupid as me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
Though the beginning of Lommy's last post bothers me. She seems to be freaking a little. I understand frustration; I mean, I'm rather frustrated with the promises of innocence and the like (are you trying to appeal to people's compassion? cause you won't get that from me.. ), but my dear, regardless of if Boro was in danger or not it still seems odd to be so afraid to lose him. In a gifteds game we could leave it to suspecting giftedness (but then being so open about that would be really...not smart), but obviously we can't do it. But I agree that a great amount of energy shouldn't be put into investigating the *everybody loves Boro* theory.
Freaking a little? Frustrated? I hope not, because I actually did not feel frustrated, I was simply wondering. Or okay, I started to become gradually slightly frustrated when I wrote that. But "frustrated" is too strong a word, "mildly annoyed" would do better. I just don't understand why do people concentrate on it so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin
I do wonder though what Lommy meant by this earlier:
Was that a sarcastic comment on my flip-floppiness or an actual question to me?

edit: xed with Noggless
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:41 AM   #218
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Mith looks a little better to me now. It would, at least, be very unsporting for her to make the statements she did if she were a wolf -- not that I'm certain she isn't, but I suppose I'll leave her alone for toDay anyway.

Both Boro and Nogrod suddenly find me suspicious after I suspect them... Boro, especially, seems odd with his statement there is a wolf or two among each of two groups of two people, followed by a vote for someone in neither group! Like yesterday, I'm getting the impression that he doesn't particularly care who gets lynched.
Nogrod, plain and simple and like I said, I didn't suspect anyone else as much and there was no support for lynching my other suspects anyway. I don't see the point in making a big show of reluctance (actually, I tend to distrust such shows.)
Speaking of shows of reluctance, though, I don't think Volo's was actually wolfish. I think it's actually the sort of wackiness that wolves are more likely to seize upon, trying to make an ordo into a lynch victim, than to actually engage in themselves. The fact that he admits it was a show of reluctance, plus the general relaxed feel he has, make him look more innocent.

At this point, my top suspects (in order of wolfyness) are:
Boro
Greenie
Nogrod
Durelin

EDIT: X'd with Durydurykanoggielommy
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:50 AM   #219
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Correction: I didn't actually have the impression Boro didn't care who was lynched yesterDay, but rather upon analyzing yesterDay's voting toDay.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:52 AM   #220
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As far as I'm concerned, the wolves play it very neatly so far. There's a couple of people that I find innocent-looking (Rikae, Lily and Volo, less so Ka and Nerwen, mostly because of Volo's points against them). Nogrod, Mith and McCaber are probably innocent, too, but I'm not sure yet. This leaves Durelin (who I have no idea about), Boro, Menel and Lommy. I find neither particularly suspicious, but one of them is propbably going to receive my vote, out of sheer lack of something better.

About Boro, I don't like the way he tried to make Mith look bad, the way he retaliated against Rikae and, of course, his sudden vote for me.

About Menel, I have nothing new (his vote and what Nogrod already said yesterday)

About Lommy I only have a strange feeling.
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Old 02-28-2008, 11:54 AM   #221
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Actually it was a question, Lommy. I'm not keen on attacking flip-flopping too much, because I'm just as confused. I just really wonder what you meant by that - how she's acting so blatantly wolfish she can't be a wolf, if that's what you meant?
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:09 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikae View Post
Both Boro and Nogrod suddenly find me suspicious after I suspect them...

Nogrod, plain and simple and like I said, I didn't suspect anyone else as much and there was no support for lynching my other suspects anyway. I don't see the point in making a big show of reluctance (actually, I tend to distrust such shows.)
I didn't say I found you suspicious - or at least extremely suspicious...

What I did was going through that Gwathwagon to look for anything that could be seen as suspicious and you must agree yourself that when the lynch is going nicely the wolves can posture as principled standing behind their voiced suspicions but the innocents are always a bit nervous about their votes if there isn't a seer-revelation or something like that.

You were one of the many who acted in a way that could be seen also as wolvish and not all of you could be wolves.

What innocents need to do is to think, think and think - and to get food for that thought they need to suspect, suspect and suspect. The gifteds may need to stay a bit lower but now it should be clear that it's the duty of everyone of us to be vocal about anything we see that is even bordering suspicious - and to voice these things so that we can get reactions to them.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:10 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Durelin View Post
Actually it was a question, Lommy. I'm not keen on attacking flip-flopping too much, because I'm just as confused. I just really wonder what you meant by that - how she's acting so blatantly wolfish she can't be a wolf, if that's what you meant?
I actually took it as a serious question but when Greenie appeared behind my shoulder, saw your post and said "quite evil" of that, it occured to me it might be a sarcastic joke as well. But no, I didn't mean that. I simply meant all her innocent-looking reasonableness and helpfulness (mainly the floods of analysis). When I'm a wolf, I'm reluctant to write long analyses because it feels pointless and it always takes a lot of time and effort. It is probably a very stupid tactic and I don't claim Rikae would play similarily, but there is still something very unwolfy in her helpfulness.

Currently I feel like my head could explode. I'm quite sure there is at least one wolf among the experienced village loudmouths - Nogrod, Boro, Mac and Rikae - and they all keep bringing up good points that contradict each other and seeming innocent at one moment and suspicious at the next. Truth be told it's quite frustrating. I think I need to have a pause and think about things wthout taking anything they say into account, but it's quite difficult as one of the things I want to think about is what they're actually saying. I don't know, I just have a bad feeling that four gifted rehtorics (rhetoriciens? what?) are trying to talk me over to their side and not all of them are innocent. Argh.

edit: xed with Nogrod and just realised my word formation looks suspiciously French... that's what you get from French-lessons, I guess...
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:18 PM   #224
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The tally:

Menel -> McCaber
Nerwen -> Volo
Boro -> Mac

And 45 minutes to go.

I'll come forwards with what I think after I've had a cigarette and hopefully collected my thoughts.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:23 PM   #225
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I'll add Lily to the Innocent-list, for now. Either she has greatly improved as a Wolf, or she really is Innocent. Her cases look honest.
Ok, not all things make sense to me, but she reacts in a genuine way.

I'd like Lommy to make way for her sister to update her Mac-case.


I'm quite inclined to vote for Nerwen, but I'll do such a nasty deed as to see if there's any sense to vote for her. Otherwise, my targets are Boro and Ka - Ka slightly more. I'm falling for Boro's frustration, it looks a bit like SPM's in the first game I modded. But I won't vote in a such way that Boro is left alive, in a case that neither [b]Ka[b] nor Nerwen is on the way to be lynched.


I'll check Nogrod next.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:25 PM   #226
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Thanks, Lommy...I understand now and am glad I asked because obviously I wasn't reading it that way. And I'm sorry A Little Green already thinks I'm so nasty.

Blarghity...I need to get working on homework...

++Macalaure

Of the random voters for Gwathagor he worries me the most. Of course I don't feel good voting for the same person as Boro, but I can't say I trust any of you sneaky lot, so what's the use spending another 40ish minutes on this...

Edit: Crossed with Volo
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:25 PM   #227
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What? Only 35 minutes to go?! And I thought we had ages and I have no clue who to vote... *faints*

edit: xed with Durey
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:27 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volo View Post
I'd like Lommy to make way for her sister to update her Mac-case.
Now tsk tsk, it is her own choice that she has not been around for a while and she left to buy cookie ingredients a moment ago... I hope she realises how late it is...
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:32 PM   #229
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I think I'm decided enough at this point, so:

++Boro

Smooth on the surface, but the overall pattern of his behavior looks like there's a nasty undercurrent. Look over his posts, and think about the intention behind them.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:32 PM   #230
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Apparently I have half an hour for final thoughts.

Right now I'm kind of torn between Mac and Volo. I don't like Volo for his contradictions and general tone, and Mac just worries me.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:33 PM   #231
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I feel like using a certain German swear word. Agh. This is just too confusing. Ok, of the loudmouths I complained about Nogrod and Mac seem more innocent, Rikae and Boro seem more guilty. I'm perfectly aware this is quite opposite to many things I've said before, but there is something overall innocently laid-back in Nogrod's manner and innocentish uncertainity in Mac's while Rikae and Boro look a tad too confident. Now I'm not actually suspecting them very much and I refuse to vote them before I've had a closer look at them - and I will do that toMorrow, if I'm still alive.

Who to vote then? I'd be inclined to go against Volo, Menel or McCaber... The latter two are quite suspicious and I confess I'd like to get rid of them so that I needn't to wonder about them any more. The totally baffling Volo is another case; he feels both far more guilty and a little more innocent than the two others. Ouch.

Now Greenie came home. She'll come to post now.

edit: xed with Rik and Cab
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Last edited by Thinlómien; 02-28-2008 at 12:46 PM. Reason: boldings
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:35 PM   #232
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Rikae I may avoid telling the truth but I don't tell any blatant lies other than the compulsory "What a beautiful baby" one.

And Boro my posts are not nonsensical because you don't understand them
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:36 PM   #233
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If we lynch Mac and he's innocent, don't let Greenie slip out of the spotlight toMorrow. In fact, whoever we lynch, I want to make sure to get this across in case I'm not around toMorrow:
Her way of casting suspicion on Mac was very questionable, I think, and she's been going with the flow throughout the game. Her voting yesterday looks deliberately safe, like Boro's.

EDIT: Added bolding, and also wanted to add:
the way she manages to escape notice should be a warning sign. She is keeping out of the spotlight.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:38 PM   #234
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What I don't like about voting Boro, is his edginess. The Borowolves I remember all "looked fairer". His actions today look quite bad, but I feel like buying his frustration. I actually happen to share it.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:38 PM   #235
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Here's the list of characters...

Nogrod the Agreeable, the leader of the beggars

his wife, Nerwen - I never seem to be able to suspect her but after Volo's point about her over-carefulness I'd say she needs to be looked at.

Gwathagor, their child - R.I.P. dear son.

elderly couple; Rikae the Kind - a bit touchy when suspected even a little but otherwise looks good and sensible.

and Durelin - no idea.

Boromir88 the Silent One, an ex-pickpocket - looks more like an innocent.

his wife, Mithalwen the Perpetually Sane and Serene - I'm really torn between her guilt and innocence, sometimes more the first, sometimes more the latter. Lommy said a wolf wouldn't go to such extremes defending her innocence - but remember Rikae last time...

their children Macalaure the Guileless - feels better all the time but I must say I'm a bit uneasy with him as I know what he's capable of.

and Meneltarmacil - screams wolf but then it's Menel who more often than not ends up lynched as an innocent. That said one of my candidates still.

satansaloser2005, a slightly mad crippled woman - dead duckmaster...

Volo, a young widowed man - I'm not too easy with him as I've pointed out already but doesn't top my list either.

his child, the Right Honourable McCaber - if he doesn't show up I'm quite ready to lynch a timebomb that doesn't look too innocent.

THE Ka, a blind old woman - no idea.

orphaned little Thinlómien - felt very innocent yersterDay and mainly toDay as well.

and her little sister A Little Green - I'm a bit worried about with her conscise low-flying and if I can borrow the hip-phrase around here toDay: there's something that bothers me with her even if I can't quite say what.

EDIT: X'd after Lommy onwards
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:38 PM   #236
Mithalwen
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Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Gah ....

++Rikae

becasue she is doing the "I'm too super helpful and analytical to be a wolf" thing- and I have no more time....
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:39 PM   #237
McCaber
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McCaber has been trapped in the Barrow!
++Volo

He's been freakin' me out for a while, and I think he's the most suspicious right now.

EDIT: crossed with Nogrod and Mith

Last edited by McCaber; 02-28-2008 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:43 PM   #238
Macalaure
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Macalaure is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Macalaure is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Menel -> Caber
Nerwen -> Volo
Boro -> Mac
Durelin -> Mac (Mac 2, Caber 1, Volo 1)
Rikae -> Boro (Mac 2, Caber 1, Volo 1, Boro 1)
Mith -> Rikae (Mac 2, Caber 1, Volo 1, Boro 1, Rikae 1)
Caber -> Volo (Mac 2, Volo 2, Caber 1, Boro 1, Rikae 1)

I don't like the way this is going...
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:43 PM   #239
Rikae
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Rikae is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Rikae is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Rikae is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen View Post
Gah ....

++Rikae

becasue she is doing the "I'm too super helpful and analytical to be a wolf" thing- and I have no more time....
Only according to Lommy, mind you. I would actually be just as helpful and analytical as a wolf -- that's where the fun is!
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Old 02-28-2008, 12:44 PM   #240
A Little Green
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I'm back with my vote.

++ Mac

And if you start accusing me of joining a bandwaggon then I suggest you go and reread my posts from toDay. (Sorry - just had to say that.)

No further babblings then.


EDIT: x-ed with everyone since Lommie
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