Faramir and Eowyn - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Maéglin · 08-23-2003, 04:23 AM

Hmmm I'm not sure if this has been touched in these forums but what do you think PJ will make out of Faramir and Eowyn's relationship... Do you think it will be well developed with everything else that is going on with all the other characters. In the book didnt it take them a few weeks to get acquainted, fall in love, etc.. so in the movie, maybe it will cut to their story after something major (like the start of the battle at the gates of Mordor).

Meela · 08-23-2003, 04:52 AM

Yes, I think they only took a few weeks to get together. I have every confidence that PJ will make this a good part of the film, although Aragorn and Arwen will no doubt dominate the romantic scene. But I can't see him making a total hash of things, so I'm looking forward to seeing the couple.

Elentári · 08-23-2003, 07:02 AM

Ohhh he'd better have got it right...I loved that bit in the book...although I notice Faramir has the wrong colour for his hair! In the book there was a bit where Éowyn and Faramir were standing together and her golden hair was blowing around with his raven hair. So that's not going to work, is it...

Finiel · 08-23-2003, 09:01 AM

Hmmm...raven hair? I didn't remember that. I guess, I better read the books by now (again).But I think PJ might not develop Eowyn and Faramir's relationship. He might left it hanging, like just showing the two holding each other's hands. Well...who knows?

Kaiserin · 08-23-2003, 07:31 PM

PJ, develop Faramir's and Eowyn's relationship? ... In a movie? ... Don't you think that would be a little too, er, corny for ROTK? My guess is that it will just be hinted, and more detail will be put into Aragorn and Arwen (like there wasn't too much detail already!)

Elentári · 08-24-2003, 09:19 AM

Ahhh...too true unfortunately...and I swear he has raven hair, it particularly stuck in my mind.

08-24-2003, 10:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>and I swear he has raven hair, it particularly stuck in my mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Faramir does have raven hair...it mentions in TTT that he has 'dark' hair, and in RotK it describes it as 'raven' when he and Eowyn are on the walls of Minas Tirith (as mentioned in a previous post). Darn, am I going to miss that imagery... Well, it also mentions Boromir having 'dark' hair, but apparently Boromir in the movie doesn't.They're likely to have at least a shadow of the romance if not the romance itself as some people mentioned before. But, from all the news that they had extended the romance (and then they had a change of plan), the scenes are going to (at least) be in the Extended Edition. And in one of the audition script they have a bit of the Faramir/Eowyn romance in it (the meeting), but again, it was a very very early edition. And it's a definite possibility that it's going to be altered, as could be seen from the Ithilien script...(I don't have link to the script...*nances off to look*)

Sauron 666 · 08-24-2003, 02:16 PM

Well developped in the movie?? Its barely developped at all in the book! one chapter Eowyn couldn't care less about Faramir and is too stuck in self pity to care and the next she marries him? I know they were together in the halls of the healing but we know nothing of their time together. and I don't expect much for the movie, its really an element i couldn't care less about. Howver, given they've casted Miranda Otta as Eowyn I guess the more scenes with Miranda Otto the better!

HCIsland · 08-24-2003, 03:37 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> My guess is that it will just be hinted, and more detail will be put into Aragorn and Arwen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have to agree here. I think it will be there but not much time will be devoted to it. I believe I remember an interview with Miranda Otto where she said many of the scenes between her and Faramir are being cut. I took comfort they were filmed at all.Special Edition perhaps?H.C.

HCIsland · 08-24-2003, 04:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Of course, PJ could always cut a corner and have Eowyn die after defeating the Witch-King <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!That's the ticket. No time to resolve plot threads? Just kill off the characters.H.C.

Pirotess · 08-25-2003, 02:42 PM

Given that in TTT there were more romantic scenes added between Eowyn and Aragorn than in the books, i expect PJ to work out Eowyn + Faramir well enuf in RotK, since he has material to work from... Of all evidence PJ luves mush stuff. He creates romantic scenes outta nowhere, so i can't imagine him skipping the ones that exist. But i dunno... too many time barriers. The RotK has A LOT of material to cover. Who knows what'll make the cut? ~.~

Silmiel of Imladris · 08-25-2003, 06:56 PM

I do hope that PJ doesn't fudge this part and make it more or less than what it truely is. I am so sick of the Aragorn, Arwen, Eowyn love triangle I could barf. I am glad that Faramir will be coming into the picture.

Finwe · 08-25-2003, 08:03 PM

The reason that they didn't give Faramir and Boromir their proper "raven locks" was that the non-Tolkien members of the audience would get them confused with Aragorn, especially with that whole Gondorian thing going on. PJ just decided to simplify it, and stick with blond hair for Boromir and Faramir, that way, the non-Tolkies could actually remember who they were. (Such babies, they are!)

Gimli stonesheild · 08-26-2003, 01:26 AM

some were i had read that EEoywn and Aragorn were sopposed to be married in the books, but Tolkiens Publishers did not like her so the told him to pull her out or put some one sles in for Aragorn, cant rember where i had heard this but I like the idiea of Aragorn and Erowyn better

Ughósh the Abominable · 08-26-2003, 01:44 AM

Eowyn and Faramir's relationship? Forget their relationship; I'm still a bit worried about the propper developement of Faramir's character, period. He got very little good dialogue in the TTT movie, and PJ basically made him look like a slightly weaker-willed version of his brother (i.e., consumed by greed, rash, etc.); in the book he stood out because of his wisdom and his willingness to consider and discuss a matter at length before making a decision. So I don't know. Frankly I'm not going to speculate; I'll just say that I'm worried, and it's a plot point that could be potentially disappointing for me.

Elentári · 08-26-2003, 04:08 AM

I read somewhere that Tolkien had orignally intended to hav Éowyn marry Aragorn, but decided against it to tie up all those loose ends and stuff. 'Barf'...that is such a funny word! It cracks me up every time I read it...

08-26-2003, 12:11 PM

Tolkien did originally have Eowyn paired with Aragorn, but when he wrote that plan, Eowyn was a different character (same name, different situations, and possibly a change in personality). In that plan she stayed in Edoras, waiting for him to become King.Then, all of a sudden, Faramir came into his head and wouldn't leave. After a while, he figured that Aragorn/Eowyn wouldn't work. As it doesn't fit the whole 'fairy-tale' type scenario. So, he created Finduilas. Later, he changed the name Finduilas and turned it into Arwen, and gave the name Finduilas to the mother of Boromir and Faramir. In the end he probably altered Eowyn's character a bit so that she and Faramir would make a good couple. Besides, Faramir was the character that he claimed was most like him, and closest to his heart. Some people think he's a back-door way to explain Aragorn. All in all, yeah, they have to explain Faramir's actions in TTT (which I believe is due to the lies of Frodo and Sam, anyways), or else I'm coming to PJ with mallets and more mallets, maybe a large pot of boiling or ten. And the Aragorn/Arwen/Eowyn thing was done too much, he has to resolve that. And the way is most likely through Faramir.

samrohan · 08-28-2003, 01:04 AM

I really hope PJ plays down the Arwen role a bit as the character of Eowyn in the ROTK takes on a much more important role than Arwen ever has in the Books. Although the wedding scenes are important, Dernhelm and the slaying of the Nazgul is a far more important scene in the history of things. Well that is my opinion.I also hope we see more of Faramir in the ROTK as his role is played down and twisted a bit in the Two Towers. I hope his romance with the Best actress in the Two Towers will bloom in the ROTK.

Elentári · 08-28-2003, 05:05 AM

I really think Arwen ought to have the back seat in this film, because Éowyn's and Faramir's story was much more important in this book, and so sweet! But it probably won't happen GGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!And another point...what did you think of Éowyn's portrayal? Some reviewers said that she lacked presence and emotion and all that...but I thought hang on, isn't that exactly what she is meant to be like? She is such a distant character, you know like the whole frozen flower thing. I think Miranda did a wonderful job.[ August 28, 2003: Message edited by: Elentári ]

Lily Bracegirdle · 08-28-2003, 05:37 PM

I agree that Eowyn and Faramir's romance is going to take a back seat in ROTK, but I hope it's put back in in the EE. I'm also worried about Faramir's character being further twisted. In the preview of TTT:EE they showed part of a new scene in which Faramir grabs Gollum by the throat and throws him to the ground, at which point, I thought "NOOOO! Wasn't he bad enough already? I thought you were going to FIX him in the EE!" O Faramir! -Lily

HCIsland · 08-28-2003, 05:44 PM

I don't think Faramir had any love of Gollum in the book. I hope we get the curse he gave to Gollum. I can't quite remember the exact words.H.C.

**The Saucepan Man** · 08-28-2003, 06:11 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I really think Arwen ought to have the back seat in this film, because Éowyn's and Faramir's story was much more important in this book <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But surely Aragorn's story far surpasses that of Faramir in terms of importance (hence the name of the film). And since we know that his wedding to Arwen is one of the set piece endings to the film (and therefore all three films), it makes sense to me for their romance to feature at least as much as it has in the two films to date. (I know that many are unhappy over Arwen's extended role, but personally I have no problem with it - provided of course that she doesn't take to the battlefield. )Which is a roundabout way of saying that, while the romance between Faramir and Eowyn will undoubtedly feature, it will probably (and in my view should) take a back seat to the romantic aspect of the story of the central figure, Aragorn (or joint central figure, with Frodo). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> what did you think of Éowyn's portrayal? Some reviewers said that she lacked presence and emotion and all that...but I thought hang on, isn't that exactly what she is meant to be like? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>On the contrary, I thought that she wasn't emotionally distant enough. In the film, we have her lauging and joking with Gimli, something that the soul in turmoil in the book would never have done. And her flirtatious behaviour towards Aragorn contrasts with the anguished desire presented in the book. For me, this isn't a problem. I think that Miranda Otto's portrayal of the character works well in the film (and I currently have the pleasure of her face looking down on me from the August page of my calendar as I type ). It's just that she's not the same character, to my mind, that we met in the book. Although I do wonder how plausible her 'death wish' ride to the Pelennor as Dernhelm will seem in RotK in light of her portrayal in TTT. In the book, it was Faramir's love that rekindled in her the will to live. But it seems that, in the film, Faramir is not really going to be required to do much in the way of rekindling. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the preview of TTT:EE they showed part of a new scene in which Faramir grabs Gollum by the throat and throws him to the ground, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Although Gollum was pretty badly treated by Faramir and his men in the cinema release, as I recall. And anyway, surely Sam gets the prize for the main Gollum-abuser (in the book as well as the films, I might add).

Lily Bracegirdle · 08-28-2003, 06:14 PM

No, Faramir didn't trust Gollum, and he threatened him with death, but he never laid a hand on him! Gratuitous cruelty was never Faramir's way.Even his doom is more than generous: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "As for you, Frodo ... I declare you free in the realm of Gondor ... whomsoever you take under your protection (Sam and Gollum) shall be under my protection and under the shield of Gondor." "Then I say to you," said Faramir, turning to Gollum, "you are under doom of death; but while you walk with Frodo you are safe, for our part. Yet if ever you be found ... astray without him, the doom shall fall. And may death find you swiftly ... if you do not well serve him."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Faramir also tells his men to be nice to Gollum. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "Take this creature away, Anborn. Treat him gently, but watch him. ... Smeagol ... Leave us now, and take your fish!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Finally, Faramir is willing to let Gollum go just to make Frodo safe: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "He will lead you to no good. If you will part with him, I will give him safe conduct and guidance to any point on the borders of Gondor that he may name." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So why does Faramir have to be a throat-grabbing bully in the film? It makes me sad. You're right, Saucepan Man. Faramir was already a jerk in the theatrical edition of the movie. I had been hoping they'd make him more like himself in the EE, not *less*.-Lily[ August 28, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ]

Snowdog · 08-28-2003, 06:46 PM

Getting back to Maéglin's original questions: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hmmm I'm not sure if this has been touched in these forums but what do you think PJ will make out of Faramir and Eowyn's relationship... Do you think it will be well developed with everything else that is going on with all the other characters. In the book didnt it take them a few weeks to get acquainted, fall in love, etc.. so in the movie, maybe it will cut to their story after something major (like the start of the battle at the gates of Mordor).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Being how PJ has treated time-passage in the two previous movies, especially in Fellowship, I don't see a problem of how Faramir and Éowyn get to know and love each other in the House of Healing. I'm sure it will be made short due to time considerations, but will be added to in the extended DVD of Return. As for Faramir, may he redeem himself in Return of the King!

**The Saucepan Man** · 08-28-2003, 07:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Faramir was already a jerk in the theatrical edition of the movie <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I wouldn't put it quite like that myself, but I know what you mean. And, of course, I would say "film" rather than "movie".

Kaiserin · 08-28-2003, 07:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I do hope that PJ doesn't fudge this part and make it more or less than what it truely is. I am so sick of the Aragorn, Arwen, Eowyn love triangle I could barf. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'd have to agree. I'm not really a sucker for mush.I don't think it would be important to highlight the whole Faramir-Eowyn thing, anyway. After all, this is Return of the King, i.e., a story about Aragorn. And I do believe King Elessar's union with Arwen would be an excellent cap to this film. It should have a pleasant end though (I personally hope it won't end with Aragorn's dying and leaving Arwen alone for the rest of her long life).

08-23-2003, 04:23 AM	#1
Maéglin Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 99	Faramir and Eowyn Hmmm I'm not sure if this has been touched in these forums but what do you think PJ will make out of Faramir and Eowyn's relationship... Do you think it will be well developed with everything else that is going on with all the other characters. In the book didnt it take them a few weeks to get acquainted, fall in love, etc.. so in the movie, maybe it will cut to their story after something major (like the start of the battle at the gates of Mordor).

08-23-2003, 04:52 AM	#2
Meela Denethor's True Love Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Mirkwood. With Thranduil... swoon Posts: 2,049	Yes, I think they only took a few weeks to get together.<BR>I have every confidence that PJ will make this a good part of the film, although Aragorn and Arwen will no doubt dominate the romantic scene. But I can't see him making a total hash of things, so I'm looking forward to seeing the couple. __________________ 'The Hobbit' 1st impressions: 1. Thorin is hot... Oh god, I fancy a dwarf. 2. Thranduil is hotter. 3. Is that... Figwit! 4. Does Elijah Wood never age? 2nd: It's all about Fili & Kili, really. 3rd: BARD! OMG, Bard.

08-23-2003, 07:02 AM	#3
Elentári Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon... Posts: 113	Ohhh he'd better have got it right...I loved that bit in the book...although I notice Faramir has the wrong colour for his hair! In the book there was a bit where Éowyn and Faramir were standing together and her golden hair was blowing around with his raven hair. So that's not going to work, is it... __________________ Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the dogs? Spread the word! The 1st annual Golden Ring Marathon! October 20th 2005! Tell Everyone! Frodo Lives!

08-23-2003, 09:01 AM	#4
Finiel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: somewhere in the tropics Posts: 69	Hmmm...raven hair? I didn't remember that. I guess, I better read the books by now (again).<P>But I think PJ might not develop Eowyn and Faramir's relationship. He might left it hanging, like just showing the two holding each other's hands. <P>Well...who knows? __________________ "The night has a thousand eyes, And the day but one; Yet the light of a bright world dies when day is done. The mind has a thousand eyes, And the heart but one; Yet the light of a whole life dies when love is done."-- F.W. Bourdillon

08-23-2003, 07:31 PM	#5
Kaiserin Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cair Paravel Posts: 150	PJ, develop Faramir's and Eowyn's relationship? ... In a movie? ... Don't you think that would be a little too, er, corny for ROTK? <P>My guess is that it will just be hinted, and more detail will be put into Aragorn and Arwen (like there wasn't too much detail already!) __________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

08-24-2003, 09:19 AM	#6
Elentári Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon... Posts: 113	Ahhh...too true unfortunately...and I swear he has raven hair, it particularly stuck in my mind. __________________ Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the dogs? Spread the word! The 1st annual Golden Ring Marathon! October 20th 2005! Tell Everyone! Frodo Lives!

08-24-2003, 10:36 AM	#7
morchaint Guest Posts: n/a	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>and I swear he has raven hair, it particularly stuck in my mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Faramir does have raven hair...it mentions in TTT that he has 'dark' hair, and in RotK it describes it as 'raven' when he and Eowyn are on the walls of Minas Tirith (as mentioned in a previous post). Darn, am I going to miss that imagery... Well, it also mentions Boromir having 'dark' hair, but apparently Boromir in the movie doesn't.<P>They're likely to have at least a shadow of the romance if not the romance itself as some people mentioned before. <P>But, from all the news that they had extended the romance (and then they had a change of plan), the scenes are going to (at least) be in the Extended Edition. And in one of the audition script they have a bit of the Faramir/Eowyn romance in it (the meeting), but again, it was a very very early edition. And it's a definite possibility that it's going to be altered, as could be seen from the Ithilien script...(I don't have link to the script...nances off to look)

08-24-2003, 02:16 PM	#8
Sauron 666 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 59	Well developped in the movie?? Its barely developped at all in the book! one chapter Eowyn couldn't care less about Faramir and is too stuck in self pity to care and the next she marries him? I know they were together in the halls of the healing but we know nothing of their time together. <P>and I don't expect much for the movie, its really an element i couldn't care less about. Howver, given they've casted Miranda Otta as Eowyn I guess the more scenes with Miranda Otto the better! __________________ Ash Nazg Durbatuluk Ash Nazg Gimbatul Ash Nazg Thrakatuluk Arg Burzum-Ishi Krimpatul

08-24-2003, 03:37 PM	#9
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> My guess is that it will just be hinted, and more detail will be put into Aragorn and Arwen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have to agree here. I think it will be there but not much time will be devoted to it. I believe I remember an interview with Miranda Otto where she said many of the scenes between her and Faramir are being cut. I took comfort they were filmed at all.<P>Special Edition perhaps?<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

08-24-2003, 04:16 PM	#10
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Of course, PJ could always cut a corner and have Eowyn die after defeating the Witch-King <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LOL!<P>That's the ticket. No time to resolve plot threads? Just kill off the characters.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

08-25-2003, 02:42 PM	#11
Pirotess Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: RL unfortunately Posts: 22	Given that in TTT there were more romantic scenes added between Eowyn and Aragorn than in the books, i expect PJ to work out Eowyn + Faramir well enuf in RotK, since he has material to work from... Of all evidence PJ luves mush stuff. He creates romantic scenes outta nowhere, so i can't imagine him skipping the ones that exist.<BR>But i dunno... too many time barriers. The RotK has A LOT of material to cover. Who knows what'll make the cut? ~.~ __________________ above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars for ever dwell: I will not say the Day is done, nor bid the Stars farewell

08-25-2003, 06:56 PM	#12
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	I do hope that PJ doesn't fudge this part and make it more or less than what it truely is. I am so sick of the Aragorn, Arwen, Eowyn love triangle I could barf. I am glad that Faramir will be coming into the picture. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

08-25-2003, 08:03 PM	#13
Finwe Deathless Sun Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Royal Suite in the Halls of Mandos Posts: 2,609	The reason that they didn't give Faramir and Boromir their proper "raven locks" was that the non-Tolkien members of the audience would get them confused with Aragorn, especially with that whole Gondorian thing going on. PJ just decided to simplify it, and stick with blond hair for Boromir and Faramir, that way, the non-Tolkies could actually remember who they were. <P><BR>(Such babies, they are!) __________________ But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.

08-26-2003, 01:26 AM	#14
Gimli stonesheild Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barrow Alaska Posts: 14	some were i had read that EEoywn and Aragorn were sopposed to be married in the books, but Tolkiens Publishers did not like her so the told him to pull her out or put some one sles in for Aragorn, <P>cant rember where i had heard this but I like the idiea of Aragorn and Erowyn better __________________ “you could have picked a better spot” “Do you want me to discribe it to you or get you a box?”

08-26-2003, 01:44 AM	#15
Ughósh the Abominable Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Washington state Posts: 13	Eowyn and Faramir's relationship? Forget their relationship; I'm still a bit worried about the propper developement of Faramir's character, period. He got very little good dialogue in the TTT movie, and PJ basically made him look like a slightly weaker-willed version of his brother (i.e., consumed by greed, rash, etc.); in the book he stood out because of his wisdom and his willingness to consider and discuss a matter at length before making a decision. So I don't know. Frankly I'm not going to speculate; I'll just say that I'm worried, and it's a plot point that could be potentially disappointing for me. __________________ "Experience" is the name everyone gives to their mistakes. -Oscar Wilde

08-26-2003, 04:08 AM	#16
Elentári Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon... Posts: 113	I read somewhere that Tolkien had orignally intended to hav Éowyn marry Aragorn, but decided against it to tie up all those loose ends and stuff. 'Barf'...that is such a funny word! It cracks me up every time I read it... __________________ Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the dogs? Spread the word! The 1st annual Golden Ring Marathon! October 20th 2005! Tell Everyone! Frodo Lives!

08-26-2003, 12:11 PM	#17
morchaint Guest Posts: n/a	Tolkien did originally have Eowyn paired with Aragorn, but when he wrote that plan, Eowyn was a different character (same name, different situations, and possibly a change in personality). In that plan she stayed in Edoras, waiting for him to become King.<P>Then, all of a sudden, Faramir came into his head and wouldn't leave. After a while, he figured that Aragorn/Eowyn wouldn't work. As it doesn't fit the whole 'fairy-tale' type scenario. So, he created Finduilas. Later, he changed the name Finduilas and turned it into Arwen, and gave the name Finduilas to the mother of Boromir and Faramir. <P>In the end he probably altered Eowyn's character a bit so that she and Faramir would make a good couple. Besides, Faramir was the character that he claimed was most like him, and closest to his heart. Some people think he's a back-door way to explain Aragorn. <P>All in all, yeah, they have to explain Faramir's actions in TTT (which I believe is due to the lies of Frodo and Sam, anyways), or else I'm coming to PJ with mallets and more mallets, maybe a large pot of boiling or ten. And the Aragorn/Arwen/Eowyn thing was done too much, he has to resolve that. And the way is most likely through Faramir.

08-28-2003, 01:04 AM	#18
samrohan Wight Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Touring Minas Tirith with Gimli and Legolas Posts: 107	I really hope PJ plays down the Arwen role a bit as the character of Eowyn in the ROTK takes on a much more important role than Arwen ever has in the Books. Although the wedding scenes are important, Dernhelm and the slaying of the Nazgul is a far more important scene in the history of things.<BR>Well that is my opinion.<P>I also hope we see more of Faramir in the ROTK as his role is played down and twisted a bit in the Two Towers. I hope his romance with the Best actress in the Two Towers will bloom in the ROTK. __________________ I can't believe I have not watched the return of the king yet.

08-28-2003, 05:05 AM	#19
Elentári Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon... Posts: 113	I really think Arwen ought to have the back seat in this film, because Éowyn's and Faramir's story was much more important in this book, and so sweet! But it probably won't happen GGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!<P>And another point...what did you think of Éowyn's portrayal? Some reviewers said that she lacked presence and emotion and all that...but I thought hang on, isn't that exactly what she is meant to be like? She is such a distant character, you know like the whole frozen flower thing. I think Miranda did a wonderful job.<p>[ August 28, 2003: Message edited by: Elentári ] __________________ Dotard! What is the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the dogs? Spread the word! The 1st annual Golden Ring Marathon! October 20th 2005! Tell Everyone! Frodo Lives!

08-28-2003, 05:37 PM	#20
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	I agree that Eowyn and Faramir's romance is going to take a back seat in ROTK, but I hope it's put back in in the EE. <P>I'm also worried about Faramir's character being further twisted. In the preview of TTT:EE they showed part of a new scene in which Faramir <B>grabs Gollum by the throat and throws him to the ground</B>, at which point, I thought "NOOOO! Wasn't he bad enough already? I thought you were going to FIX him in the EE!" <P>O Faramir! <P>-Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

08-28-2003, 05:44 PM	#21
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I don't think Faramir had any love of Gollum in the book. I hope we get the curse he gave to Gollum. I can't quite remember the exact words.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

08-28-2003, 06:11 PM	#22
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I really think Arwen ought to have the back seat in this film, because Éowyn's and Faramir's story was much more important in this book <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But surely Aragorn's story far surpasses that of Faramir in terms of importance (hence the name of the film). And since we know that his wedding to Arwen is one of the set piece endings to the film (and therefore all three films), it makes sense to me for their romance to feature at least as much as it has in the two films to date. (I know that many are unhappy over Arwen's extended role, but personally I have no problem with it - provided of course that she doesn't take to the battlefield. )<P>Which is a roundabout way of saying that, while the romance between Faramir and Eowyn will undoubtedly feature, it will probably (and in my view should) take a back seat to the romantic aspect of the story of the central figure, Aragorn (or joint central figure, with Frodo).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> what did you think of Éowyn's portrayal? Some reviewers said that she lacked presence and emotion and all that...but I thought hang on, isn't that exactly what she is meant to be like? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>On the contrary, I thought that she wasn't emotionally distant enough. In the film, we have her lauging and joking with Gimli, something that the soul in turmoil in the book would never have done. And her flirtatious behaviour towards Aragorn contrasts with the anguished desire presented in the book. For me, this isn't a problem. I think that Miranda Otto's portrayal of the character works well in the film (and I currently have the pleasure of her face looking down on me from the August page of my calendar as I type ). It's just that she's not the same character, to my mind, that we met in the book. <P>Although I do wonder how plausible her 'death wish' ride to the Pelennor as Dernhelm will seem in RotK in light of her portrayal in TTT. In the book, it was Faramir's love that rekindled in her the will to live. But it seems that, in the film, Faramir is not really going to be required to do much in the way of rekindling. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the preview of TTT:EE they showed part of a new scene in which Faramir grabs Gollum by the throat and throws him to the ground, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Although Gollum was pretty badly treated by Faramir and his men in the cinema release, as I recall. And anyway, surely Sam gets the prize for the main Gollum-abuser (in the book as well as the films, I might add). __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

08-28-2003, 06:14 PM	#23
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	No, Faramir didn't trust Gollum, and he threatened him with death, but he never laid a hand on him! Gratuitous cruelty was never Faramir's way.<P>Even his doom is more than generous:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "As for you, Frodo ... I declare you free in the realm of Gondor ... whomsoever you take under your protection (Sam and Gollum) <B>shall be under my protection and under the shield of Gondor</B>." <P>"Then I say to you," said Faramir, turning to Gollum, "you are under doom of death; but while you walk with Frodo you are safe, for our part. Yet if ever you be found ... astray without him, the doom shall fall. And may death find you swiftly ... if you do not well serve him."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Faramir also tells his men to be nice to Gollum.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "Take this creature away, Anborn. Treat him gently, but watch him. ... Smeagol ... Leave us now, and take your fish!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Finally, Faramir is willing to let Gollum go just to make Frodo safe:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "He will lead you to no good. If you will part with him, I will give him safe conduct and guidance to any point on the borders of Gondor that he may name." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So why does Faramir have to be a throat-grabbing bully in the film? It makes me sad. <P>You're right, Saucepan Man. Faramir was already a jerk in the theatrical edition of the movie. I had been hoping they'd make him more like himself in the EE, not less.<P>-Lily<p>[ August 28, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ] __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

08-28-2003, 06:46 PM	#24
Snowdog Emperor of the South Pole Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Western Shore of Lake Evendim Posts: 606	Getting back to Maéglin's original questions: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Hmmm I'm not sure if this has been touched in these forums but what do you think PJ will make out of Faramir and Eowyn's relationship... Do you think it will be well developed with everything else that is going on with all the other characters. In the book didnt it take them a few weeks to get acquainted, fall in love, etc.. so in the movie, maybe it will cut to their story after something major (like the start of the battle at the gates of Mordor).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Being how PJ has treated time-passage in the two previous movies, especially in Fellowship, I don't see a problem of how Faramir and Éowyn get to know and love each other in the House of Healing. I'm sure it will be made short due to time considerations, but will be added to in the extended DVD of Return. As for Faramir, may he redeem himself in Return of the King!

08-28-2003, 07:00 PM	#25
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Faramir was already a jerk in the theatrical edition of the movie <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, I wouldn't put it <I>quite</I> like that myself, but I know what you mean. And, of course, I would say "film" rather than "movie". __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

08-28-2003, 07:52 PM	#26
Kaiserin Wight Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cair Paravel Posts: 150	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I do hope that PJ doesn't fudge this part and make it more or less than what it truely is. I am so sick of the Aragorn, Arwen, Eowyn love triangle I could barf. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'd have to agree. I'm not really a sucker for mush.<P>I don't think it would be important to highlight the whole Faramir-Eowyn thing, anyway. After all, this is <B>Return of the King</B>, i.e., a story about Aragorn. And I do believe King Elessar's union with Arwen would be an excellent cap to this film. It should have a pleasant end though (I personally hope it won't end with Aragorn's dying and leaving Arwen alone for the rest of her long life). __________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.