Gildor Inglorion

[Meriadoc61]

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I have had a concern for quite some time regarding Gildor Inglorion and his Wandering Company which has bothering me for years. Why would he leave Frodo and his companions alone knowing full well they were being pursued by the Black Riders? He was immensely concerned that Gandalf was missing, he knew Frodo was carrying a great burden, and he knew who the Black Riders were...and yet the best he can do is to pass on news regarding Frodo to other Wandering Companies. As it turned out, the messages arrived in Rivendell well before Frodo did, as can be observed by the appearance of Glorfindel searching for the travelers. I find this whole scenario quite disturbing. What Frodo was trying to accomplish was just as important to Gildor and his people as it was to Frodo.

Anybody else ever wondered about this?

</p>

[Mithadan]

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Re: Gildor Inglorion

Welcome to the Forums Merry!. Precisely the observations which you have made have led some to comment that Gildor was: (a) a wimp; or (b) a jerk. While one might guess that Gildor did not know Frodo's errand, this seems to conflict with the later statement that Gildor had reported Frodo was wandering abroad carrying a great burden without guidance. Perhaps JRRT merely tacked someone else's actual knowledge of the Ring onto a far less specific message which Gildor had sent. Or perhaps Gildor having resolved to pass into the West was no longer inclined to participate in events in Middle Earth (very disappointing and hopefully not true).

In any event, Gildor does not come over very sympathetically, just as Celeborn later seems to be a bit &quot;dim&quot; and intolerant.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Meriadoc61]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Gildor Inglorion

Thank you for the welcome, Mithadan!

Maybe we fans of JRRT and LOTR look too deeply in some of these matters. I certainly do not wish to malign the professor in any way, but I believe he really dropped the ball in regards to Gildor just leaving Frodo and company to their own devices to deal with the evil Nazgul. JRRT created a scene building up tension and &quot;solved&quot; the problem by bringing in the arrival of the Wandering Company. This was fine. It is only in the manner of their departure that leaves much to be desired.

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[noldo]

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Re: Gildor Inglorion

Gildor wasn't a jerk or a wimp! It could be true that he felt his time and work in ME had now ended and he didn't want to participate in any events or conflicts of ME

I always believed some Elves kind of saw Frodo as threath to to them. Eventhough they hated Sauron and opposed him in all ways, they didn't want their time in ME come to end by the destruction of the One Ring. And that was what Frodo was sent to do.

Elves were confused in the time of the War of the Ring. They wanted to destroy the Ring and yet they didn't. Indeed the coming of the Fellowship to Lothlórien and the meeting of the hobbits with Elves on road to Rivendell, were footsteps towards their Doom, whether that was then to bow before Sauron or leave to the West.

Yet I'm not sure if any of this is something to explain Gildors or even Celeborns behaviour... <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

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[Odysseus819]

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Re: Gildor Inglorion

I have often thought the same thing, Meriadoc, and in my mind I always contrasted Gildor's behavior to Farmer Maggot's. Maggot knew that the black rider was in town and that the hobbits were afraid of him, yet he was wiling to drive them to the ferry despite the danger (and also offered to lie to the black rider if he asked about the hobbits). The simple farmer hobbit seemed much more admirable in this respect than the immortal elf who, as you point out, basically left the hobbits in the lurch.

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[The Barrow-Wight]

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Re: Gildor Inglorion

This is a good question. And the answers given seem reasonable. But I think they all point to the ethnocentrism most Elves apparently showed against the other peoples of Middle-earth. In Lórien was saw distrust of other races, in Rivendell we saw ridicule and in the person of Gildor we saw a kind of indifference.

But I don't think we can think poorly of the Elves because of their apparent lack of concern for the younger races. After all, Men and Hobbits were certainly not the responsibility of the Firstborn. They had troubles of their own, and unlike the short-lived mortals the Elves had to live with their mistakes forever. Add that to the fact that Elves and Men were so very different by their nature, especially the Men of the Third Age, and you begin to see things in a different light.

Instead of distrust, ridicule and indifference you begin to see simply a lack of understanding of the other peoples. We see Gildor as someone who should have helped Frodo, but maybe Gildor saw the Hobbit as someone he really didn't know how to help.

I'm not making excuses for Gildor. I think he should have escorted Frodo to Rivendell. I'm just attempting to dive into the psyche of a Third Age Elf Lord who was tired of his long years in Middle-Earth. <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
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[Meriadoc61]

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Gildor

Very good observations and comments, Barrow-Wight. Gildor did say something to the effect that they were only wandering for a while and no longer concerned with the affairs of Middle Earth. Be that as it may, leaving Frodo alone to face the Black Riders seems to me to be a reckless act on the part of Gildor. Bombadil, for that matter, could also be viewed as being only slightly better than Gildor in that he let the hobbits proceed through a very dangerous area bereft of a guide. It was only due to the good fortune of Frodo that he, Frodo, was able to call Tom, but at least Tom chose to accompany them to the borders of his land.

As I mentioned in a previous post, maybe we as fans did too deeply. I am not convinced that Tolkien gave much thought to Gildor, and only used him as a literary device to offer the hobbits a momentary reprieve from the Black Rider. Had Tolkien chose to have Gildor guide Frodo to Rivendell, we would have never (most likely) encountered Farmer Maggot, the old forest, Old Man Willow, Tom Bombadil, Goldberry, the barrow downs, and Bree. In addition, we would also have encountered Strider in a different context, much in the same manner as we were introduced to the other members of the Fellowship of the Ring after the Council of Elrond was concluded. Had we only met Strider in this fashion, I believe, a lot of his character development would be missing. In fact, I would suggest that &quot;Strider the Ranger&quot; would not have even entered the picture...we would only know of Aragorn, son of Arathorn, heir in exile to the great kings Isildur and Elendil.

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[Gilthalion]

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Re: Gildor

Hmmmmph!

You guys are acting like Tolkien was only writing a work of fiction, and NOT actually translating passages from the Red Book!

I am aghast!

Clearly, Gildor could NOT stop to babysit the hobbits. Did he know for a certainty that the Black Riders were indeed actually chasing Frodo? Or did he think it more likely they were hunting Gandalf? With all his cares, concerns, and even prejudices, did he really believe the Ringwraiths were concerned with some hobbits of the Shire? When this was finally recorded in the Red Book, might it not have been biased by a hobbit-centric viewpoint?

The Elf Lord did much to send such messages as he could, perhaps as much on Gandalf's behalf as anything!

Gildor Inglorion had a boat to catch! It was his appointed time to leave (evidently). He did what he could with what little he knew. Perhaps he and his messengers may have even drawn the Riders off the hobbits' trail, however briefly. Surely the wraith they frightened away was suspicious, and might have followed the elves for a brief time, suspecting his prey and the Ring were being already taken East. This might have given the hobbits the time they needed to vanish from the track.

As for Bombadil, if the hobbits had followed his advice, he wouldn't have needed to rescue them, much less ride with them to his border afterwards.

And as for Celeborn being &quot;dim&quot; or &quot;thick,&quot; I submit that this is rank jealousy! After all, Galadriel must have seen SOMETHING in him! (Of course, she did choose to leave him behind...)

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[Mithadan]

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Re: Gildor Inglorion

Please note that I didn't use the word &quot;thick&quot; in speaking about Celeborn. Gilthalion did. Sounds like he has an opinion of his own. <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

[Gilthalion]

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Re: Gildor Inglorion

Me? An opinion?

Celeborn was just set in his ways, that's all!

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[mwcfrodo]

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Re: Gildor Inglorion

I doubt Gildor in his wildest dreams would have imagined that the burden Frodo carried was the One Ring. First, very few people knew it had not been distroyed and it had been found. A wandering Elf wasn't likely to have heard that news. Second, Frodo was a hobbit -- an entirely unlikely fellow to be carrying around the Ring. He probably thought Frodo just knew more than he should have about Gandalf's business (&quot;don't meddle in the affairs of wizards!&quot

While it's true it may seem Gildor should have done more to help Frodo, we have a very different perspective than he had on the situation. We all know why Frodo was fleeing the Shire and what dangers he was facing. I also doubt Gildor knew how determined the Riders were to find Frodo. We know because we know Frodo has the Ring and we've read the next chapters...

From Gildor's viewpoint, encountering Frodo was very much like having someone stop one of us on our way to work (or school) and ask for directions to a place that is many miles away and directly opposite from where we were going. In that situation, most of us would probably give the person directions, but few of us would turn around and accompany them to make sure they got there safely.

We'd be especially likely to content ourselves with just giving good advice if it looked as if the person could handle the situation on his/her own. And, to the limited extent that an Elf would bother to size up a hobbit, Gildor probably thought Frodo would be able to handle himself. After all, Gildor recognized Frodo and clearly accorded him some measure of respect (if only because Frodo knew some Elvish)

I think Gildor did what he felt was appropriate for the situation. He sheltered Frodo and the others for the night and sent word out about them. Also, that &quot;elf-friend&quot; designation Gildor gave Frodo clearly had some sort of meaning. Goldberry identified Frodo using that term immediately after meeting him. Perhaps, such a designation bestowed some protection (albeit limited) from evil and made it more likely Frodo would find the help he needed along the way.

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[Pengolodh]

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.....

The name seems to suggest that Gildor is Finrod's son. There is however no mention of this in any genealogy. It does say that he is of the house of Finrod.

Strange, since the name makes him his direct son (since the &quot;ion&quot; is in this case meant in the biological sense).

Son of Inglor, early name for Felagund.


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[lathspell]

Well well, see what I´ve found surfing through the dustier parts of the forum... a thread on me!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
'Should Gildor have helped the hobbits?', 'Why didn´t he escort the hobbits to Rivendell?' and so on...
Come now my dear mortals. I cannot go tramping along with a few hobbits, I have got my own concerns and errands and more importantly because we, Elves, are not concerned with other peoples and as I pointed out: 'Hobbits are so dull'.
And as for help, I have done as much as I could. Do not forget Frodo did not tell me all about his errand. How then should I choose what's best for him?. I have warned the other Wandering Companies. The old networks still function properly and anyone holding power for good shall be on the watch as I pointed out. After doing that you still want me to go holding his hand all the way to Rivendell?
Finally, I do not know why I owe any explanation to any of you. The ways of the Elevs are different then those of the mortals. And you mortals were not meant to understand us. And we are not interested in understanding you.

Greetings, gildor

[inglorion]

lol... posting under my bro´s name.
That of course was a mistake...

Once again, greetings, gildor

[Turambar]

"Clearly, Gildor could NOT stop to babysit the hobbits. Did he know for a certainty that the Black Riders were indeed actually chasing Frodo? Or did he think it more likely they were hunting Gandalf? With all his cares, concerns, and even prejudices, did he really believe the Ringwraiths were concerned with some hobbits of the Shire?"

Doesn't Gildor tell Frodo something like, "Danger is behind and in front of you, and on either side." He knew the hobbits were in danger and, although he offered them some help, basically left them to their own devices. I think that reflects the basic distrust of mortals that all elves share, probably as a result of the treachery of Ulfang et al.

[Ereinion]

Well, no one's brought this up yet. Couldn't it be possible that Gildor and co. are simply not warriors? I doubt that all Elves were highly-trained fighters. Especially Elves living in the 3rd-age in an area far from the reach of Mordor. Even if they weren't warriors, Frodo probably would've been better off with them.

[lathspell]

I think Gildor helped as much as he could by sending the news of 'hobbits on the road without Gandalf' to Rivendell. If he hadn't done this clearly the hobbits and Aragorn would be no match against the nine riders (just pointing out that they were 'saved' by Glorfindel and Asfaloth for it was he that saw that Frodo had to make HASTE).

Gildor, as have we all, has also business of his own. Who is he to go and step along with four hobbits?... he did much by sending the news and even more by letting him walk along and giving him advise.

[Nice-Smeagol]

Gildor might not have known what he could do against the Nine Riders and was probably more concerned with his fellow elfs

[Amarie]

Could someone direct me to a thread were knowledgable people discuss Gildor/House of Finrod? I've tried searching but turned up nothing.

Thanks

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Gildor did say something about danger ahead of the Hobbits, but those were dangerous times after all and 4 small hobbits would surely know that already.
I think it may be likely that Gildor imagined Frodo and Gandalf were up to something mighty suspicious, but not all Elves are as wise as Elrond, and maybe Gildor wasn't at all sure what was going on. After all, Frodo wouldn't explain the situation in black and white.

[lindil]

Well I, suprisingly got to the end of this thread w/ no one expressing what to me seemed the obvious.I thought for sure I would be pre-empted. but then again maybe I am just plain wrong!

my 2 cents;

Gildor searched his heart as to what he should do for Frodo and did it.

Just because you can help someone is it always right? Gildor clearly sensed something big was afoot and he hesitated to set anything in motion that was not meant to be.

Gildor knew that the Dunedain kept watch {aragorn was almost certainly one of those warned by Gildor's highly effective communications network.
All told we know it reached Aragorn, Bombadil and Rivendell, not bad for a slacking, racist wimp. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]


No I think Gildor Inglorion was practicing what the taoists call Wu-Wei. Acting w/out self-interest. I believe although puzzled and alarmed by the situation he weighed his possible responses in his heart and saw that it was not his or his companies part to escort them further.


But let us look at what the brief meeting did accomplish.

*The ring saved from immediate peril.
*Hobbits greatly heartend and [ Frodo and Sam at least] greatly enlightened.
*Frodo was pronounced an 'Elf-Friend' before he even left the Shire [ I believe the Elf-Friend title also had a certain blessing that went w/ it. like Faramir's staff.

*He also asked that Elbereth's Starts shine upon his road [which they undoubtedly did].

*set them up w/ food better than anything we will probably ever eat - vegetarian too if I recall.

*gave Frodo counsel to take friends [ the counsel of which helped sway him when the conspiracy was unmasked].

*Implemented the emergency contact system along the old Arthedain/Cardolan border.

not bad in my book. Actually the Gildor and co. scene has always been along w/ lothlorien my favorite in the book.I always come away so inspired I can not imagine Gildor being anything other than perfectly in-tune.


So, again Gildor did exactly what he needed to do. Just like Elrond [ a more common lightening rod for the ' he/Rivendell did not help enough' question] did not go to Mordor himself.Gildor and Elrond where wise enough to be where they were most needed and mature enough too do there part and no more, no less.

btw 'house of Inglorion' almost certainly means not a son of [ in which case he proably would have been King after Gil-Galad] but 'of the household of'.

And possibly a generation or 2 removed at that. Still as Finrod was one of the noblest [ The noblest in my book] of the Noldorin princes, even being his butler would have been a good job.

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Amarie]

This thread is the first time I have heard anything negative said about Gildor. Reading the book I never blame Gildor for not walking Frodo to Rivdendell, but in truth I hadn't given it much thought beyond: Gildor did not want to interfere too much. For him to be one of my two favorite elves(other is Finrod)with such a brief part shows that I think highly of him.
Does anyone think that once upon a Time J.R.R Tolkien considered Gildor to be the Son of Finrod? He was named Inglor at the time Gildor was first named..(to my knowledge) and this is based on what is Told in HoME: The return of the shadow. I know that he is not the son of Finrod but damn I want him to be.

[Tirned Tinnu]

Fantastic thoughts on Finrod here! I often thought that to be the case. Gildor bad, ineffective?
No. I liked Gildor. I think he did what he had to. Thing is, when you come right down to it, I thought he did more than we really expected. He risked the life of one or two of his own to send word back towards Rivendell. I wonder if that Elve/Elves sacrificed his/their place on the ship? If he/they did I'd feel rather sorry for him/them.
It seems that the company that attended Gildor had been in ME for a very long time. I would have been tired too.

[Amarie]

What causes you to think that one of them may have sarcificed their place on the ship?

[Tirned Tinnu]

I thought that because they (the messengers) had to ride as far as Rivendell to get the message off to Glorfindel, who stated:

'Elrond received news that troubled him. Some of my kindred, journeying in your land beyond the Baranduin,* learned that things were amiss, and sent messages as swiftly as they could. They said that the Nine were abroad, and that you were astray bearing a great burden without guidance, for Gandalf had not returned. '

Surely those that rode so far would have a hard time getting back to The Havens. I wonder how long Gildor would tarry?

[doug*platypus]

Thoughts on Gildor Inglorion

The name seems to suggest that Gildor is Finrod's son. There is however no mention of this in any genealogy. It does say that he is of the house of Finrod.

I would suggest that possibly Inglorion means of the House of Inglor (Finrod Felagund), to be taken as the people of Inglor. In Maori culture an iwi (tribe) or hapu (sub-tribe) may take its name from one distinguished ancestor, in a similar way. In this case they would be known as Ngati Finrod (lol!) and all of its members would be able to say that they were of that people, whether biologically related or not, as they could all claim a sort of spiritual descent from him.

I think there is also a question of what was Gildor's position in the hierarchy of the Noldor at the time of the War of the Ring? Were he and his company permanent residents of Rivendell? It is almost certain that they went there from time to time, but perhaps they were always a "wandering company", roaming sadly around the lands. Galadriel frets about becoming a "rustic folk" living in "cave or dell". Did Gildor and his company already live such an existence, out of choice?

If there was this marked difference in the lifestyle or role of Gildor compared to Elrond, Galadriel and Glorfindel, it becomes easier to understand his choices regarding Frodo. If he had chosen a life of exile and wandering, it is likely that he saw Frodo and the Ring as the problem of Elrond and the rest of the House of Fingolfin. He after all was of the House of Finarfin, who (with the key exception of Galadriel) may have been less ready to consistently wage war against Morgoth and Sauron.

Gildor eventually took ship with the Ringbearers in the Fourth Age. Was this an elevation of his position or an honour due to the help that he did provide to Frodo, though seemingly reluctant to do so?

Man-of-the-Wold's Ultimate Discourse on Gildor

Speculation on Gildor's Origins

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:44 PM January 08, 2004: Message edited by: doug*platypus ]

[Maéglin]

Perhaps he had to think of his own people. Maybe there were no warriors among his wandering company, or perhaps not enough to withstand an attack against the Nazgul. He had to think of others before thought of valour. Certainly Frodo's quest relied on secrecy and speed and travelling with a company of Elves would have made them very easy to find.

[Leyrana Silumiel]

May I inject my opinion? (Run and hide! Seriously!)

I've read LOTR about 5 times since I received it for Christmas in 2002 (I had read it before, I just didn't own it.) I had always had a theory about while Gildor Inglorion didn't help Frodo: maybe he was, for lack of better phrasing, afraid of the Ring.

He obviously knew it was a thing of great power, as he said himself, and yet he only sent messages to other Wandering Companies to let them know of Frodo's journey? Why didn't he help Frodo?

That was what I thought when I first read it, so I started to look into it and came up with my own theory of Gildor being afraid of it or of its power. Obviously, the Elf knew what it was (as did Elrond & co.). And that particular Wandering company wanted nothing to do with the trials of Middle-earth anymore. If someone stumbled into your midst with something that powerful, wouldn't YOU want to avoid being anywhere near it?

That's just what I thought. I'm not sure if it's right, though. Correct me or whatever if you think I'm wrong. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I had another thought when I read this:

Bombadil, for that matter, could also be viewed as being only slightly better than Gildor in that he let the hobbits proceed through a very dangerous area bereft of a guide. It was only due to the good fortune of Frodo that he, Frodo, was able to call Tom, but at least Tom chose to accompany them to the borders of his land.

Can't remember who said that off the top of my head. Sorry.

Anyway, Tom not only didn't help Frodo and company through a dangerous part of the land (though he did accompany them to his borders), Tom shirked his moral duty, just as, in a way, Gildor did. Tom had it in his power to help end the War sooner than it did, and in that way, many lives could have been saved. Yet he, with all his great power, refused to help not only the hobbits but all the races as a whole. I always wondered about this--I never really thought of Tom Bombadil as a great guy when I saw it like this.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 12:31 AM January 09, 2004: Message edited by: Leyrana Silumiel ]

[Lost One]

Someone asked about where Gildor lived, and speculated it was in Rivendell. I had always assumed he was an inhabitant of Lindon, and the wandering Companies were just straying back over the mountains.

[Finwe]

I believe Michael Martinez has written a rather didactic essay on the subject of the Finweans, and there is quite a bit of subject matter on the subject of Gildor and his descent.