Gothmog: the poll

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Ha ha!! Another raging debate that needs settling….

Read, and then decide:

Who/What is Gothmog?
Gothmog????
Gothmog a nazgul?
Gothmog?
Gothmog and Sauron
The WitchKing and Gothmog

(And you can all blame Nilpaurion Felagund for this one…)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The madness continues!

I salute you Fordim (and Nilp). Now let me read through those threads. Incidentally, how come Hog isn't an option?

EDIT TO ADD: Black Numenorean or some other twisted sort of Man. He might never have been to Numenor...

[Morsul the Dark]

Well after reading a bit...Two things came to me I didn't relize we don't know what the mouth of Sauron was either is it possible gothmog and the mouth are the two mysterious blue wizards as I recall from UT neither of the blue wizards had known names outside of those given them by the valar without a dictionary at habd what does gothmog translate too is there a translation?

[Formendacil]

Gothmog- of the Lord of the Rings, is- in my humble opinion, mind- a Nazgul. For reasons more clearly stated elsewhere (no, I don't know where- ask someone else) he was most logically, as Lieutenant of Morgul, a Nazgul.

Of course, that's just my opinion and interpretation of the text.

[mormegil]

I would think that it would logically be a Nazgul. Sauron would want, if possible, somebody like a Nazgul to lead if he were not there. Why? He has great power and influence and essentially has no will but Sauron's will; therefore he would make the greatest leader in Sauron's mind. That is why his first in command was a Nazgul and so would his second.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Well after reading a bit...Two things came to me I didn't relize we don't know what the mouth of Sauron was either is it possible gothmog and the mouth are the two mysterious blue wizards as I recall from UT neither of the blue wizards had known names outside of those given them by the valar without a dictionary at habd what does gothmog translate too is there a translation?

We do know that the Mouth was a Black Numenorean, presumably of great age -- definitely a Man, and so not one of the Blue Wizards.

[Boromir88]

I think it could be a toss-up between Nazgul or some sort of man (Black Numenorean).

As stated in one of those Gothmog threads I started I basically ruled out that he was an orc. I just don't imagine Sauron trusting an Orc enough to be second in command to his entire army. Though since Tolkien did never say the possibility is still there, but to me I'm 99 percent sure Gothmog wasn't an orc. Simply for the reason that I don't see Sauron giving an Orc that hight up in position. What would you argue, 3rd in command (Witch-king, Mouth of Sauron, Gothmog)?

It's reasonable to suspect he's another Nazgul. I mean if the Witch-King is first in command another nazgul could be second in command (would make sense). Problem is I thought Tolkien only came out and said he named two nazgul and he didn't feel it necessary to name them all (but I could be wrong).

My guess has always been Black Numenorean. Gothmog does not sound like a "man" name, however is it possible that his name was forgotten and was later named Gothmog? Sort of like how the Mouth of Sauron's name was forgotten.

[Angry Hill Troll]

Whatever Gothmog was, he almost certainly wasn't going by his real name. The original Gothmog was Morgoth's Lord of Balrogs, who killed Fëanor and Fingon, before himself being killed by Ecthelion (a different one, not Boromir's grandfather ) in the Fall of Gondolin.

One question is, was Gothmog the "real" name of the Head Balrog? Tolkien doesn't seem to have decided what the origin of the name was. It may contain the same root as Morgoth, "the Black Enemy", which was actually the Sindarin translation of the name given to The Bad Guy Formerly Known As Melkor, by Fëanor. Was Gothmog the Balrog Lord's real name, or just the name by which the elves referred to him?

I can't see a human being given the name Gothmog at birth, although perhaps for an orc it's plausible. It seems strange, though, if Gothmog was really a Sindarin name of insult, why Sauron would pick that as a pseudonym for his lieutenant. It would make sense that Sauron would want to give one of his top lieutenants the same name as one of the top lieutenants of his former master (although Sauron's Gothmog wasn't nearly as fearsome), so maybe Gothmog was the Balrog Lord's real name.