prologue screw-up? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Roccotari Eldandil · 03-14-2003, 10:52 PM

Galadriel, in her speech at the beginning of FotR, says that "there are none who live that remember the tale." (or something close to that.) But that's actually a huge contradiction. She was born before all of the stuff with the rings happened, and I'm sure she knows the history of the rings. So SHE knows the "tale", and she's still alive. I wonder if the moviemakers realized that. Maybe they just put it in there to make it more dramatic. Did anybody else notice this? Or am I just completely off my rocker? (By the way, I know this has nothing essential to it. It's just something that's been bugging me for a while. Sorry for babbling.)

Silmarien · 03-15-2003, 12:13 AM

I think maybe it's saying that now no-one lives who remembers it. But that bugged me too, cos I mean Elronds still alive and he fought in the war! And like you said for drama too.

Tar-Palantir · 03-15-2003, 02:17 AM

She must have been referring to Númenórë. [ March 15, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

Lalaith · 03-16-2003, 04:09 PM

Yes, it's for dramatic effect and no, it doesn't make any logical sense.

Meoshi · 03-16-2003, 04:19 PM

It makes enough sense, given the assumption that LOTR was written as a history preceding our time. After all, who, if that had happened, would remember it now?

the witch king · 03-16-2003, 08:09 PM

i seen it as talkin about our time i.e. the people watchin the film dont remember the events of tlotr

Gorwingel · 03-16-2003, 08:43 PM

Yeah she could be talking about the mortal men in general. Or that the tale of the Ring is not general knowledge. She and Elrond were kind of special, but if you just ran into an random elf or man while wondering through Middle Earth, they probably could tell you nothing about it.

Dunlondion · 03-17-2003, 12:07 AM

I think she is just being dramatic. she could be talking about men though, or how the great deads of old and the ring have been almost forgotten.

Lalaith · 03-17-2003, 05:23 AM

Logic 101. The character who is talking remembers the events. Thus, logically, she cannot say "no-one now remembers..." Correctly she should have said "few now remember" or even "only I now remember". Quibbling,perhaps. But you wouldn't have caught Tolkien writing a line like that, that's for sure.

Mornie Alantie · 03-17-2003, 12:29 PM

She would not have said that "I" in the prologe that would have took her to be more than just telling the tale. In the book only limited few remembered it. None in Gondor, Arnor, Rohan, Few in Lorien and Imladris. And saying the word "few" would have made it less dramatic.

Ruler of the Frogs · 03-18-2003, 03:51 PM

I think that when Galadriel says that she means that 'none now live who remember it' as in the mortal men of OUR time. Of 2003. I think she is implying that LotR is an actual event in a part of our history that we have forgotten.

GaladrieloftheOlden · 03-18-2003, 04:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ...much that once was is lost, for none now live to remember it. It began with the forging of the Great Rings.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think she actually means that the froging of the Rings is not remembered by anybody living. Wasn't it only Celebrimbor, who was either dead or in the West, and some other Elven-smiths of Eregion, who were dead, that could have been there? Oh, oops. And Sauron. Frogot that little detail.... Well, it does sound good, and I don't think PJ counted on having people look into and check up on every line of his movies.

03-14-2003, 10:52 PM	#1
Roccotari Eldandil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: the stables of Lorien Posts: 79	prologue screw-up? Galadriel, in her speech at the beginning of FotR, says that "there are none who live that remember the tale." (or something close to that.) But that's actually a huge contradiction. She was born before all of the stuff with the rings happened, and I'm sure she knows the history of the rings. So SHE knows the "tale", and she's still alive. I wonder if the moviemakers realized that. Maybe they just put it in there to make it more dramatic. <P>Did anybody else notice this? Or am I just completely off my rocker? (By the way, I know this has nothing essential to it. It's just something that's been bugging me for a while. Sorry for babbling.) __________________ "Come, come!" he shouted, swinging his axe. "Since Gandalf's head is now sacred, let us find one that is right to cleave!" -Gimli, after hearing Galadriel's message to him in TTT

03-15-2003, 12:13 AM	#2
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	I think maybe it's saying that now no-one lives who remembers it. But that bugged me too, cos I mean Elronds still alive and he fought in the war! And like you said for drama too. __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

03-15-2003, 02:17 AM	#3
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	She must have been referring to Númenórë. <p>[ March 15, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ] __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

03-16-2003, 04:09 PM	#4
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,790	Yes, it's for dramatic effect and no, it doesn't make any logical sense. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

03-16-2003, 08:09 PM	#6
the witch king Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor Posts: 201	i seen it as talkin about our time i.e. the people watchin the film dont remember the events of tlotr __________________ 'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.

03-16-2003, 04:19 PM	#5
Meoshi Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë Posts: 163	It makes enough sense, given the assumption that LOTR was written as a history preceding our time. After all, who, if that had happened, would remember it now?

03-16-2003, 08:43 PM	#7
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,430	Yeah she could be talking about the mortal men in general. Or that the tale of the Ring is not general knowledge. She and Elrond were kind of special, but if you just ran into an random elf or man while wondering through Middle Earth, they probably could tell you nothing about it. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

03-17-2003, 12:07 AM	#8
Dunlondion Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 21	I think she is just being dramatic. she could be talking about men though, or how the great deads of old and the ring have been almost forgotten.

03-17-2003, 05:23 AM	#9
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,790	Logic 101.<BR>The character who is talking remembers the events. Thus, logically, she cannot say "no-one now remembers..." <BR>Correctly she should have said "few now remember" or even "only I now remember". <P>Quibbling,perhaps. But you wouldn't have caught Tolkien writing a line like that, that's for sure. __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

03-17-2003, 12:29 PM	#10
Mornie Alantie Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere above earth cause people say i should come down to it Posts: 226	She would not have said that "I" in the prologe that would have took her to be more than just telling the tale. <P>In the book only limited few remembered it. None in Gondor, Arnor, Rohan, Few in Lorien and Imladris. And saying the word "few" would have made it less dramatic. __________________ Instead of pepper spray, you pack a glass bottle and scream "Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!!!" at muggers.

03-18-2003, 03:51 PM	#11
Ruler of the Frogs Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Tirith Posts: 49	I think that when Galadriel says that she means that 'none now live who remember it' as in the mortal men of OUR time. Of 2003. I think she is implying that LotR is an actual event in a part of our history that we have forgotten. __________________ What a joy to meet! We only wish to catch a fish, so juicy-sweet!

03-18-2003, 04:12 PM	#12
GaladrieloftheOlden Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Massachusetts - digging up a bottomless hole, searching for something that's not there... Posts: 1,549	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> ...much that once was is lost, for none now live to remember it. It began with the forging of the Great Rings.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think she actually means that the froging of the Rings is not remembered by anybody living. Wasn't it only Celebrimbor, who was either dead or in the West, and some other Elven-smiths of Eregion, who were dead, that could have been there? Oh, oops. And Sauron. Frogot that little detail.... Well, it does sound good, and I don't think PJ counted on having people look into and check up on every line of his movies. __________________ "Glue... very powerful stuff."