T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

In that case, at least one other wraith must have been under pressure yesterDay, because otherwise nothing would speak against attempting to survive as a team. If there's nobody in need of sacrifice, then there's no need to sacrifice, after all.

I agree - there may well have been pressure on somebody evil. Another thing Fea's death would shed light on, I'd say.

Originally Posted by Mac

It technically doesn't, but Nogrod's presence would have kept a lot of suspicion from going into her direction.

Probably not. Maybe I'm biased, though, since I thought he was innocent (having been the target of misguided-ordo-Nog cases before myself contributes to that).

Originally Posted by Mac

Limited, yes, but making it one day longer is always desirable, so why needlessly shorten one's time?

Simply put, I find it a lot easier to believe that Fea thought she may as well play kamikaze-baddie than to believe she made that attack on Dury innocently. All it took was for someone to feel under pressure, see a chance of bringing down a gifted, perhaps, who knows.

Originally Posted by Mac

Also, she didn't incriminate anybody, Lari, Mirandir, and Rune incriminated themselves by following her.

I think Fea had reason to believe her vote stood a good chance of being followed, with three (I count Lari) newbies and a chivalrous Rune left to vote.

Originally Posted by Mac

And why would the wraiths lynch somebody they had such a use for? Better to try to get Nogrod lynched toDay and let Fea go down toMorrow.

I mentioned that it was odd myself. However, I don't think for a minute such a use would outweigh, for instance, the suspicion that Nog might be the ranger. A wolf-Fea never expects to make it far, and would tell her buddies to sacrifice her.

Originally Posted by Mac

Durelin had six votes. I think it's self-evident that one innocent was in there.

I should have said "experienced innocents". At any rate, pretty much everyone but Fea had an excuse.

To tell you the truth, though, I don't think they made the kill because it makes the bandwagon look better. I'm just saying it's possible, in general, to put that kind of spin on it when an innocent who was part of a suspicious bandwagon is killed.

I'm most inclined to believe the baddies thought they might be killing the ranger, and, on the balance, didn't worry about protecting Fea (or rather, left her with only her not inconsiderable arguing powers to defend her) as a likely seer-dream anyway.

Of course, all this only applies to a wraith-Fea. She's more cobblerish anyway, but I wouldn't say she's certainly no wraith.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Also, she didn't incriminate anybody, Lari, Mirandir, and Rune incriminated themselves by following her.

Did we miss the part where I cross-posted with Nog, Lari, Fea, Nog again, and Rune? I had no idea what was going on with regards to any possible bandwagon jumping that has been speculated about. Furthermore, I definitely didn't vote Durelin because of Fea's joking revenge vote for Dury. Yes, we are friends in real life. Yes, I am a newbie. However, neither of those mean that I won't throw her under the bus if need be. Same with Lari.

I realize that sounds a little harsh. I apologize. I'm not in the best of moods at the moment and don't have much time for WW today. I will be back at least a few hours before deadline with something actually worth contributing (*fingers crossed*).

[Rikae]

Legate, whew, thank goodness somebody sees through Fea. I thought I was going crazy here. I do still say a wolfish Fea can act cobblerish, though (which only makes her a more attractive lynch, of course).

Mac... well, I don't think he's Ferny, and I don't think he's an ordo. Ergo, I'll let him fight his own battles. I focus on him too much in these games.

By the way, "red herring" is a saying. It means a distracting, false hint, basically.

I was going to finish looking at Lommy, but I'm finding her more innocentish anyway.... perhaps my time would be better spent looking at Lari.

It also occurs to me that this whole crazy situation could very easily allow some wolves to put themselves in a positive light simply by being on the right side of this Fea-Dury nonsense. In fact, I suspect that's one of the main purposes of the whole fiasco.

Be back later.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Mac

I never understood it and still don't: why is it suspicious to make statements of the kind "if I was a wolf"?

Also, I might slip once as a wolf, but not three or four times. Seriously. And if I did, I'd be acting much more nervous by now.

It isn't - I was merely amused by the fact that following the logic of your post the one behind Noggie's death would actually be you. Nevertheless it was not a serious point against you and I hope you didn't take it as such. (Though I admit to some reaction-fishing... Result: I'm none the wiser.)

Originally Posted by Leggy

LG. Post 247: Is it so that there is nobody you actually suspect? Except for Sally, most people are either not alarming, or she has no idea about them.

In a nutshell, yes. (And actually, that "except for Sally" is a bit useless since I have no idea about her either... ) I'm inclined to vote either Lari or Fea toDay. I can't make out how Fea's behaviour would benefit an innocent villager, and as for Lari, apart from her first reply to my suspicion of her she gives me the vibe of a nervous somewhat-new wolf. Dunno.

I'll vote in a minute, I'm afraid - got to go to sleep and let Lommy post and study and all that...


EDIT: x-ed with Mira and Rikae

[Lariren Shadow]

So I just wanted to point out to everyone who thinks that the Seer dreamed of Fea and she was reveled as Ferny, that that isn't possible. The Seer could dream of Ferny all xe wanted, but it would come back as an ordo.

[A Little Green]

I'll vote

++ Fea

because, like I just said, I see no way how what she has done would benefit an innocent villager in any way. First the Dury thing, and then toDay pretty much all the discussion has been revolving around her. If she's innocent, she's acting very weirdly - she hasn't indicated to even trying to turn the discussion elsewhere even though, if innocent, she would know the village is wasting its energy on talking about someone who doesn't need to be talked about. Stinks of cobblery to me.


EDIT: x-ed with Lari

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

So I just wanted to point out to everyone who thinks that the Seer dreamed of Fea and she was reveled as Ferny, that that isn't possible. The Seer could dream of Ferny all xe wanted, but it would come back as an ordo.

All I meant to say (maybe I said it wrong) is that if Fea is a wraith, she probably expects that the seer knows and considers herself done for anyway.

But then, you know how she plays as a baddie - you were a wolf with her just one game ago. If you were a wolf this time, you would know better than to defend her... hmm...?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Lommy: Starts of with sugesting that Nogrod was killed because of possible Ranger suspicions, which I think could be correct. I don’t understand however why my vote was fatalist, what does fatalism (determinism) have to do with it? She mentions being uneasy about Sally.
In 437 she mentions having lynching Fea as a backup plan, which is a very weird suggestion, but not nesisarily a wraith suggestion.

All in all I think Lommy looks very innocent and I will move on to look at Sally, a person I had forgotten all about until I looked through Lommy’s posts.

Sally: I am really torn about Sally. . . She hardly said anything yesterday due to babysitting and such and today she has not been active at all. It is very hard to judge people on day 1 alone and she has not contributed with anything of substance since. Sally is normally a person that you notice, so when you hear hardly anything from her, you get the feeling that she is up to no good.

Mac: Starts the day of with a long post about what happened in the ending of Day 2, although not objective it gives a fairly desent overview of things. Then he makes that ridicules case against me and Fea. It does not make sense that he discards me as seer, because he doubt the seer would be so obvious, but thinks it plausible that I would be so obvious as a wraith. He uses my own words against me, which is always a good tactic, but basicly it seems like an easy case that might catch on. . . Then he makes his post about the reasons to kill Nogrod, he concludes that neither Aganzir nor Fea would kill him. Then he have 2 posts of comments which actually comes of as rather innocent. I am slightly worried about Mac and in lack of other candidates could vote for him, but I see no smoking gun yet.

Aganzir: Starts today of with a rant about Lommy, which makes you wonder. I don’t get why Lommy must not compare her to how she have played in other games, that is often a good way to find wraiths. It could that Aganzir is just general annoyed and innocent, but it can also be frustrating to be a wraith and get accused on (according to your self) “false” reasons. Anyways it is not a really incriminating post, but one that draws attention and maybe put together with other posts can give a good impression of Aganzirs role.
I think Aganzir’s post 474 seem very innocent, I cannot really explain why. . .I guess she just seems genuine and her responses do not seem like they are fabricated.


I might look at a few others like Rikae. . .but I don't know if I have the energy.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

IN THE PRESENT TIMES!!!

Fast, so that I don't x-post with too many. I may look more closely at the last few ones once more as soon as I post this, I just more or less skimmed through them.


Reading through the beginning of toDay: I am glad people think the same as I do...

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Oh, crap it all. I know. I bet the wolves were thinking something like: "Why is Nogrod making such an issue about Dury's ranger impersonation? Maybe because... he's the real ranger!" I think that'd make a lot of sense. More sense than any other explanation I'm coming up with at the moment. (His posts are not seerish, he would not actually make a good no-trace kill etc.)

That's what I thought and still think.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, well, well.

YesterDay at deadline, I thought only one of two things could be happening: either I'd found myself (again) in a village consisting mostly of cobblers, or a lot of people were once again IM'ing while werewolfing, doubtless with alcohol involved. On second thought, though, I suppose it's just a matter of one wine-drinking, sleep deprived Noggins, one Mac who didn't wish to die, one cobbler ready to get herself lynched, and a couple of newbies without enough experience to recognize the insanity of it all (except Berry).

And that's also more or less what I thought.

Once again: Fea is a Cobbler. Mac is likely a Wolf. Do not listen to anything Fea says. That would be the best for us all, I am sure.

Beregond voting Mac makes a good impression on me, likewise his first post toDay.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I agree Fea seems very unlikely to have the village's best interests at heart. How can you be sure she's the cobbler rather than a wraith, though? I'd guess it took more than one baddie to make that lynch happen.

Of course. It took one Macwraith and one Cobbler-Fea.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Taking part in a joke discussion several hours later and without even having anything witty to say? If these carrot-potato things are supposed to be taken as hints, I'd be eyeing Rune very carefully...

I hardly think it had anything to do with hints. He simply commented on that because he liked that when he saw that. And, who knows how many bottles of window cleaning liquid had he had prior to that...

Some Mira and Lari could have been voting to "save Fea" because of RL friendship, however silly that is, I think. (That does not mean they are innocent, though.) The two of them have been slipping under my radar a lot (of course. They post far from often or long, and I have never played with them before), but I actually think a Wraith might be hiding there. I need to look at their votes for Dury yesterDay once more.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

If Durelin had turned out to be a wolf... er, wraith, I'd have called that the worst slip ever. As it is, I don't know what she meant.

It's obvious what she meant. She was a Cobbler, not sure who is the Wraith and who not. Maybe she thought she's lynching a Wolf, maybe not. In any case, this is a clear signal.

I like Nerwen's analysis of the voting process, I have to agree with it. (I just hope Nerwen is not a clever wolf who had prepared grounds for that... but I am pretty certain there is at least one Wolf among these Dury-voters, or maybe likely two - Mac and somebody else, either Lari or Mira, most probably.)

I don't like Lari's posting: seeming fishy to me in some way.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Fea looks a bit like an evil mastermind. She puts the bandwaggon on its rails and does not hesitate about it one second, despite very questionable grounds.
Mirandir and Lari - synchronised werewolfing? They both make a list shortly before things get rolling, and neither suspects Durelin. They both defend Fea, they both change their minds on Durelin, they both make a very similar vote post. It is inconceivable that this was planned, so not both of them are wraiths. A wraith-cobbler combo is possible. Newbieness exonerates Mirandir a little, but Lari gets no such bonus anymore.
Rune's desire to save Fea is out of proportion. Mirandir and Lari are her RL friends, so it's more understandable. I thought that maybe Rune was the seer and dreamt of Fea, but no way would a seer risk himself when his innocent dream is not challenged seriously, which Fea wasn't. Also, if he wanted to save Fea, why go after Durelin? Even if he knew about Fea's innocence, he must've realised that the reasons against Durelin were ridiculous. I remember that he stated something about "experienced players should know better". He is more than experienced enough to know that you lynch the people who act suspicious, not the people who act weird. Stupid lynches like that happen way to often. I suspect that Rune and Fea are companions.
Rikae and especially Brinn take the role of the voice of reason. I believe they are innocent. They could be smart wraiths, but for now, I don't think so.

And what Mac says is just baaad. I mean, he not even mentions the chance of Fea being a Cobbler (that could cause people who suspect her thinking: she's a Wraith, and thus, lynch her - giving the Wraiths one more free day in exchange for this little sacrifice), instead he throws one more possible Cobbler in front of us (to confuse us, likely?), what more, he tries to pair her up with Rune, who looks innocent to me (cf. above). This way, he possibly hopes to widen the losses: they are BOTH baddies, let's get rid of her AND him after that, as well!

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Now if we were to try to lynch Fea toDay, I'd be more for it than anyone else(unless maybe Mac or Rikae because, well, Mac has been sort of saved twice now and some of Rikae's posts are making me wonder).

But we don't want to lynch her: We want to lynch a Wolf. And Fea is most likely a Cobbler. Of course, it's good to get rid of her, but even better is to just stop paying attention to her at all, and find and lynch the Wolves.

I see Mac has again been posting lists and candidates for why Nog was killed, good, nice, but again: offering questions and options does not really help, quite the opposite. It creates confusion in the village, people disperd, which is just what the Wolves need.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

So what I was thinking was this: I have nothing much else to go on. Then I refreshed the page a lot. Right before Fea had poster her vote I had pretty much made up my mind to vote for Durelin. I had no other good suspects. Durelin was the best option at the time for me, I don't know why, maybe my mind at almost 1 AM is not the best thing. Ergo I decided to vote for her. Rune then jumped in while I was refreshing the mad posting so it looked like I was listening to him.

Think I’m suspicious all you want, but I also voted Durelin on Day 1 for the same reasons. I don’t know if that makes me stupid or what.

Lari's vote for Dury is something I like not, and her explanation is something I won't buy easily. She could have wholly made that up. However, the fact that she voted Dury both Days speaks in her favour: that would be quite some luck. Unless... maybe I will re-read the voting again once more.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

Mac: Two options I see: Fea is innocent and set up by the wolves/wraiths to be lynched by us. Possiblity. Second option she is guilty, decided that to throw suspicion away from other wolves/wraiths she should sacrifice herself and be lynched.

And you don't mention the possibility of Fea being the Cobbler. Which is what I think she is.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

So I just wanted to point out to everyone who thinks that the Seer dreamed of Fea and she was reveled as Ferny, that that isn't possible. The Seer could dream of Ferny all xe wanted, but it would come back as an ordo.

Okay, did anybody say they think that (like I say, I just skimmed through the last few posts, so I may have missed that), or if not, why are you saying that?

[Lariren Shadow]

Mac: Why would I be happy to lynch Fea today? Same reason you would be, to not die. There is a high probability it will come down to her and me today and, well, I'd vote her to save myself.

As for my suspcions: you(Mac) are high up on my list. Actually, it's you and Rune. It's not an attack, but you're posts don't read right to me.

As for Rune, well I know my vote was not meant to be part of a bandwagon. At least not intentionally. Rune's, on the other hand, was part of it. I just don't like it.

And Rikae, I hope you're taking a very good look at my posts.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Says pointing out Frodo-ish behavior helps the wolves (also misleading).

What's misleading about that?

Originally Posted by Legate

The way Beregond reacted to this joke of Rikae's (her saying that she is the seer) - I don't like it. A newbie could ask if it was a joke, yes, why not, but the way he ends up thinking about it seriously... still, he is a newbie.
But what more, Fea was feeding it. She is obviously desperately trying to make the Wolves know she is on their side. Because otherwise, I cannot imagine HER - an experienced player - getting confused by somebody like Beregond (read: a newbie No offense, Beregond) and actually questioning this obvious joke! And I do not even stop to think that Fea could even consider this a serious revelation. Come on.

But I was wondering if I should take Rikae seriously, or not. So I don't think being unsure there is suspicious. Or newbieish.

Originally Posted by Greenie

If she's innocent, she's acting very weirdly - she hasn't indicated to even trying to turn the discussion elsewhere even though, if innocent, she would know the village is wasting its energy on talking about someone who doesn't need to be talked about. Stinks of cobblery to me.

Oh, now that is a good point. Indeed. But I still think I'd rather vote a possible wolf than Fea who is only a probable Ferny. But I won't be terribly disappointed if you others lynch her, especially if she's Ferny and not just a general walking cloud of confusion.

*off to analyse sally*


edit: xed with Rune, Legate and Lari

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Rikae

But then, you know how she plays as a baddie - you were a wolf with her just one game ago. If you were a wolf this time, you would know better than to defend her... hmm...?

Yes I did, and I'm not a baddie in this game.

And I like your new signature.

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, did anybody say they think that (like I say, I just skimmed through the last few posts, so I may have missed that), or if not, why are you saying that?

I saw a bunch of people say "seer-dreamed" and "Fea seer-dreamed cobbler/Ferny". It seemed to be a trend. I thought I would point it out.

[Lariren Shadow]

Clearly I need to read more throw posts before just jumping to the end. And not watch and movie and try to read for my history of England class at the same time as WW, therefore:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And you don't mention the possibility of Fea being the Cobbler. Which is what I think she is.

I don't mention her being the possible Cobbler because, the way I see this game, there is no Cobbler. Ferny is an Informer. Ferny doesn't get to know the role of the person they tell the wraiths/wolves to lynch. While I don't think xe is on our side, I don't see the connection between a Cobbler, who gets to know what role the person they spy on is plus is clearly on the side of the wolves/wraiths and Ferny, the Informer, who gets to pick one person they think the wolves/wraiths should kill each night, but don't get to know the role of the chosen player. To me at least, they are entirly different roles.

I said it before, Ferny may be on the wolves/wraiths side, but could easily be a thorn in their side.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

As for my suspcions: you(Mac) are high up on my list. Actually, it's you and Rune. It's not an attack, but you're posts don't read right to me.

As our dear dead comrade Nog would have said, "I mean this looks so baad!" Since when do you suspect Mac, Lari?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

But I was wondering if I should take Rikae seriously, or not. So I don't think being unsure there is suspicious. Or newbieish.

Okay, why not. (Unless you are a wolf ) But to those of the Wise, like myself, it was obvious it is not serious.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

I saw a bunch of people say "seer-dreamed" and "Fea seer-dreamed cobbler/Ferny". It seemed to be a trend. I thought I would point it out.

Okay... I probably missed that. Care to say just who, besides the case with Rikae, mentioned that?

[Rikae]

Day 2's voting:

Durelin voters:

Fea:
First she echoes Noggie's bizarre reasoning. Now she's trying to pass her vote off as a revenge/joke vote, but she was obviously trying to give some people (read: newbies) the impression that Nog's theory had merit here (just after saying that it's useful to discuss the ranger's identity!):

Originally Posted by Fea

I just can't figure out why ordos would set themselves up to be lynched unless they're taking one for the team in effort to set up a bandwagon so the people later on can analyze what happened?

Originally Posted by Fea

Like... it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm very tempted to vote Dury as I don't know what she's playing at. I feel like the Ranger wouldn't make a point of making herself wraith-bait.

Right before her vote, to Nog:

Originally Posted by Fea

It's occurred to me that I want to sacrifice a fellow wolf every time I play an evil role. But there never seems to be any support from my colleagues...

Perhaps Fea-cobbler thought Nog was a wolf sacrificing his fellow-wolf Durelin? Perhaps she was indicating to her fellow wolves that she intended to sacrifice herself (she continues “support my vote if you want”)? Well, anyway, enough about her. Obviously, a very suspicious vote.

Nogrod makes the one mention of lynching Fea that sets off all the save-Fea nonsense:

Originally Posted by Nog

I already said I was a bit reluctant to vote for Dury even if I have concerns about her but this might do it... Or are there people enough to lynch Fea?

Originally Posted by Nog

I just noticed this - Beregond to Fea:

Originally Posted by Berry

Responding to Fea: I don't see "taking one for the team" as bad, or unlikely, but it might be ill-advised in most situations.

Translation “Roger, cobbler tower”?

Lari:

Originally Posted by Lari

Ok, so even after a lot of thinking and really not going off of what Rune said, my vote is:

++Durelin

I know its IC voting, but part of me thinks that putting her as a wolf would have been genius.

Now, this is weird. Lari, what did you mean by “really not going off what Rune said”?

Rune:
votes Dury – supposedly as part of his irrational fear of Fea being lynched. What to make of that, though? Either Rune is nuts (well, more so than I already thought), Rune thinks Fea is gifted (and is nuts), or Rune is evil (and nuts).

Mira:
votes Durelin claiming her IC posting makes her suspicious. Today she's saying she wasn't following Fea, but in her vote post, she points to an earlier post for her reasoning, which is as follows (if I'm looking at the right post):

Originally Posted by Mira

I agree with Fea. Why would a Ranger make such a point of being out in the open? That's like screaming "Here I am! Come kill me!" That's just poor gameplay in my opinion. Unless, as Fea said, Durelin is playing at something else. Seems mighty suspicious to me.

Italics mine.

Mac:
votes Durelin. He's obviously trying to save himself, which tells us pretty much nothing about him.

Nogrod:
votes Durelin reluctantly. An innocent enough vote, even if he wasn't a known innocent by now.

Conclusions:
Fea: Outrageously suspicious.
Lari: Fishy
Rune: Who knows?
Mira: Slightly fishy.
Nogrod: Innocentish.
Mac: No read based on the vote.

And a non-Dury voter: Beregond: Fishy.

I'll continue in a minute with the non-Dury voters, who really need some attention.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

I don't mention her being the possible Cobbler because, the way I see this game, there is no Cobbler. Ferny is an Informer. Ferny doesn't get to know the role of the person they tell the wraiths/wolves to lynch. While I don't think xe is on our side, I don't see the connection between a Cobbler, who gets to know what role the person they spy on is plus is clearly on the side of the wolves/wraiths and Ferny, the Informer, who gets to pick one person they think the wolves/wraiths should kill each night, but don't get to know the role of the chosen player. To me at least, they are entirly different roles.

I said it before, Ferny may be on the wolves/wraiths side, but could easily be a thorn in their side.

You're mistaken about the cobbler role, then. Cobblers normally know absolutely nothing, in addition to having no contact with the wolves. They are simply villagers who want the wolves to win.
Ferny is more powerful than the typical cobbler because he has a way of communicating with the wolves. What you're talking about is a sort of seer-cobbler hybrid, and not a typical role. (I've seen a few of those, though - had one in the game I modded, in fact. )

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

I don't mention her being the possible Cobbler because, the way I see this game, there is no Cobbler. Ferny is an Informer. Ferny doesn't get to know the role of the person they tell the wraiths/wolves to lynch. While I don't think xe is on our side, I don't see the connection between a Cobbler, who gets to know what role the person they spy on is plus is clearly on the side of the wolves/wraiths and Ferny, the Informer, who gets to pick one person they think the wolves/wraiths should kill each night, but don't get to know the role of the chosen player. To me at least, they are entirly different roles.

All right. To be precise: a Cobbler is a person who is just an ordo, but is on the Wolves side (doesn't know anything about who the Wolves are), but tries to help them. Usually by wreaking havoc upon the village.

But there is a grain of truth in here, the Informer's role is more in trying to help the Wolves, giving hints about who the Ringbearer might be... but still, he can "Cobble around". I don't see as much why he should not do that, it's probably the best he can do to help the Wolves anyway.

But Rikae said something about Fea eventually being capable of being a "Wolf playing a Cobbler". May be so. But still, I believe there are others: Mac, for example; who are more likely Wolves.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

[Thinlómien]

Her first several posts are just bantering. That doesn't point to anything.

In her first actual post, she does not suspect anyone, just makes a list of people that looks like a list of suspects, but is in fact a list of people she has general or historical reasons not to trust. I don't like that. Most of her reasons not to vote for people are that way too, only two are related to the actual game. It's easier for a wolf to make lists if she can hide behind general arguments and doesn't have to make anything out of the actual game that's going on.

When she wonders who to vote and narrows it down to those who already have votes, she ends up looking really fishy because she ends up saying she could vote almost everyone. Looks like a wolf who doesn't know which chance she's going to seize yet. (And if she's a wolf, I'd be looking at Brinn since this all to wolf-on-wolfy...

Originally Posted by sally

Brinn: Could be. Very well could be. But her suspiciousness (if that's even a word) could just be stress since she says she's been having a rough day or two. Perhaps we should give her the benefit for toDay? We'll see.

That flipflopping and especially that "perhaps we should give her the benefit of doubt" and then "we'll see" to soften it - it looks like she does not want Brinn to get lynched but will vote her to look better if necessary.)

She votes Mac because does not want to vote Brinn or me. That's okay by my standards.

Day2 then? Joking and making the vote tally at first - so nothing of importance, either way.

And then this

Originally Posted by sally

So, without reading toDay in great detail, I was really concerned by yesterDay's voting of Gollum. Now while Mac was trying to save himself, upon looking it over again I think it was more of an innocent Mac trying to save himself while the wraiths took advantage of it.

which has been already pointed out as weird by many.

And then RL took her away... and she only returned to make a baffled comment about the Dury-lynch. And we haven't heard of her toDay yet.

I think she looks quite bad. She deserves a lot more spotlight than has been given, and I'm inclined to vote her toDay.


edit: xed with everybody since my last post

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Rikae

What you're talking about is a sort of seer-cobbler hybrid, and not a typical role. (I've seen a few of those, though - had one in the game I modded, in fact. )

...so the first game I was in(ie the last one) where the Cobbler got to know the roles of the people he spied on is not normal? A more Ferny type Cobbler is normal? Ok then. That's really news to me actually.

As to Legate: right now I can't find any besides Rikae though I do remember someone saying it. Or it could be my tired mind jumbling things together. Either way, I'm tired and hungry(and whinny apparently) and don't really trust my mind much at all(considering I just tried to spell "all" "a....").

[Lariren Shadow]

I've now decided to use the subject line when I need to respond to people multiple times.

What I meant about not going off of what Rune said was about not wanting Fea to die. As in that didn't influence my vote. The comment is at the bottom of page 11(I believe), Rune's I mean.

[Aganzir]

xnkfcc-lxnfä-Zxvkncx.kl

I made a case against Mira. I was just about to start commenting on the last quote I had from her when I accidentally managed to close my net browser.

The post was relatively long, although it wasn't the only thing I busied myself with during these two hours.

I am darn angry with myself.

It's 12 am, I need to wake up in seven hours and I'm definitely not going to remake it today.

However the conclusion I reached was that she was somewhat suspicious, but I don't know how much should be put on her newbieness. She bears watching.

I haven't read what's been posted for some time.

Off to do it now, then I just vote and go.

Argh.

[Thinlómien]

Why is nobody posting?

I'm doing nothing.

I'm telling myself that I'm thinking of who to vote, but I'm not. I have decided to vote sally but I'm waiting for some miraculous inspiration that would override my suspicion of her.

Or then I just don't want to go to sleep.

++sally

Done. I'll go to sleep soon. If the miraculous inspiration strikes, I will retract.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right. I will most likely not go much further for toDay, even though of course I am not willing to let people pass by and sleep under my radar, but my vote and my main focus for toDay is clearly either Mac, or if there's nothing better, Fea. But it is late and I will stay around for a bit yet, but just be looking on what is going around and posting on the present issues, and not going through the posts of somebody all the way.

[Rikae]

Non-Dury voters:

Rikae:

Votes for Greenie. I explained it at the time... nothing else to say. She's the best suspect I had at the moment (as for the comment about being tired of Mac being a baddie, I was trying to explain why I might be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt more than others are – because I want him to be innocent).

Agan:

Votes for Mac with reasons that seem pretty rational (suspicious comments he made, not wanting to vote for me or Lommy, her other suspects, thinking there is some connection between us, Mac, and/or Nog... although I don't really understand how she thought Nog was connected). I don't see anything particularly suspicious here.

Greenie:

Votes Nog.

Originally Posted by Greenie

In addition to his weird Golly-vote, that Dury thing just doesn't make any sense. It looks something like a crafted case that has failed (deliberately or not) to take into account a very significant factor which is, as Rikae already pointed out, the fact that Dury's role was mysterious cloaked figure or something like that. Dunno, somehow Noggins' behavior makes me think he's a wolf who's trying just a bit too hard.

Makes sense (well, I'm not sure what she means with the Gollum-vote thing), but perhaps a tad easy. Would an evil Nog make such a huge error? I didn't think so at the time, which is why I tried to correct him, instead of trying to lynch him.

Menel:

Votes Mac, with kind of a strange explanation (saying Mac and I want to distract the village). It's more or less typical Menel-posting, though.

Lommy:

Votes Agan because of her style and personal reasons. Not the greatest reasoning; perhaps too bad to be bad, if you know what I mean (unless the whole Agan-fixation is an attempt to avoid attracting attention and antagonizing other players...).

Brinniel:

Votes Fea, after saying everyone is going to cross-post. Very innocent looking vote, but could be one of those of a wolf using a Fea-sacrifice to look good, for just that reason. Her posts, however, feel sincere.

Durelin:

Votes Mac. Known innocent, trying to save herself, nothing to comment on there.

Berry:

Makes a point of not joining the Durelin-lynching mob, votes Mac. Could indeed be a wraith trying to make himself look good, if someone is.

Did not vote: Sally, Leggy, Nerwen.

Conclusions:

The only ones who could be taking advantage of being on the right side of the Dury lynch are Berry and Brinn, and Brinn, especially, doesn't look like it. There are some slightly suspicious things in the other votes, but nothing extremely so. The non-voters, of course, are in position to really slip under the radar and shouldn't be allowed to do so (the only one of them who looks suspicious to me right now is Sally, though).

It does seem like an evil Fea would make the following people worth more scrutiny:

Lari
Mac
Beregond
Mira
Rune

But as I think we can be more sure about Fea than any of those, she remains our best lynch for toDay.
(To Legate: if it were anyone but Fea, I'd agree with you on ignoring her... but I don't trust the village to be able to ignore Fea, nor do I think we can be at all sure she's only a cobbler).

[Aganzir]

Sorry I am simply too irritated & tired (neither of which I was until I lost my post) to think about this any more.

++Fea

Because her death will probably reveal the most and because she's been behaving plain suspiciously.

It's possible I still pop in before deadline but I doubt it.

[Thinlómien]

*does not get any divine inspiration and goes to sleep*

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Now that you're here, Kit, would you also like to clarify whether it will be noted in the narration that the ringbearer changed sides, or not?

If the ringbearer is changed it will be known.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rikae

But as I think we can be more sure about Fea than any of those, she remains our best lynch for toDay.
(To Legate: if it were anyone but Fea, I'd agree with you on ignoring her... but I don't trust the village to be able to ignore Fea, nor do I think we can be at all sure she's only a cobbler).

Okay. I still say: consider Mac, though. Seriously.

However, I do not mind getting rid of Fea now, still better than another random ordo. At least we'll be done with her. I only hope we will be able to catch all the Wolves in the following Days one by one and get rid of them all. (Or even better, that Fea herself is a Wolf.)

I will hang around for a short while now, then probably vote and go to sleep. I will also post a list of people, probably, just my current impressions on everybody.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

If the ringbearer is changed it will be known.

Now that's some really, really good news.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

satansaloser2005 - hard to say much, but not particularly suspicious to me - this far. Could be posting more, though.
Feanor of the Peredhil - a horrible Cobbler
Lariren Shadow - suspicious, to be placed under observation
Mirandir - slipped under my radar, to be placed under observation
Thinlómien Mugwort - seems innocent, although at some points mightily confused (which is not impossible)
Legate of Amon Lanc - that's me
Rikae "Bertha" Broadbottle - innocentish
Aganzir - likewise
Beregond - not saying he is not suspicious at all, but does not ring the alarm bells that much; will be watched closely, though
Nerwen - nothing very suspicious this far. Somewhere in the yellow zone (i.e. between the green and orange. After the orange, there is red, which means a very apparent baddie. Just so that you know )
Rune Son of Bjarne - seems genuine, and genuinely innocent
Macalaure "Barney" Broadbottle Jr. - seems wolfy
Meneltarmacil - I think he seems quite a lot innocent. I trust him more than I do most of the others.
A Little Green - is not posting very much and thus, partially slips under my radar, or rather, I have hard time forming a strongly supported opinion on her; nevertheless, she seems rather innocentish to me.
Brinniel - seems very genuine this far, and more or less innocent-ish. Again, some kind of yellow zone.

If Fea is a Wolf, that would be indeed a terno. As I am pretty certain Mac is one as well. But whatever. Anybody around and posting now?

[Macalaure]

Legate, I think you're losing your objectivity concerning me. Take a deep breath and then please give me another look, for the good of Bree. I won't comment on everything you said about me, because it's a lot. Maybe later or toMorrow. One thing:

Originally Posted by Legate

I mean, he not even mentions the chance of Fea being a Cobbler

I said she looks evil, for me, that includes both wraith and cobbler. You deliberately overlooked where I later talked about her being Ferny.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

I had no idea what was going on with regards to any possible bandwagon jumping that has been speculated about.

I didn't necessarily only mean the actual votes, but the suspicions themselves. Fea's points on Durelin were extremely weak, yet three individual persons picked them up during the last half an hour and let their votes be misled instead of sticking to what they've been thinking before.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Yes, we are friends in real life. Yes, I am a newbie. However, neither of those mean that I won't throw her under the bus if need be.

I didn't mean that and I'm really sorry if it seemed that way. My point is that it was so foolish to seriously suspect Durelin to the point of voting at that point, that I can't believe that you, Fea, Lari, and Rune all did it out of honest intentions.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I said she looks evil, for me, that includes both wraith and cobbler. You deliberately overlooked where I later talked about her being Ferny.

Hmmm, maybe I have overlooked it, but I don't recall it, really. Where did you say that?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I think Fea had reason to believe her vote stood a good chance of being followed, with three (I count Lari) newbies and a chivalrous Rune left to vote.

The only downside to this argument is one that you'll just have to take on faith: I had no idea whose votes were still outstanding.

Originally Posted by Rikae

At any rate, pretty much everyone but Fea had an excuse.

And what was their excuse, Rikae, "Fea started it?"

Good excuse...

Originally Posted by Lily

First the Dury thing, and then toDay pretty much all the discussion has been revolving around her.

That is distinctly not my fault. I mean, the Dury thing was certainly encouraged by me, but I've barely been around today, so no blame of the actions of others should fall on me.

Originally Posted by Legate

Once again: Fea is a Cobbler.

You say this with SUCH conviction. Just... y'all are so confident that you know my role, and you're wrong.

I'd just like to suggest that when you kill me and realize that I really am actually just an ordo who is far too dramatic to be content with ordinariness, that you take very close looks at those who lead the charge against me.

Originally Posted by Legate

Some Mira and Lari could have been voting to "save Fea" because of RL friendship, however silly that is, I think.

About this- while I totally believe that both of them would be willing to manipulate others by citing our RL friendship, I do not believe that they would have any hesitation at all to kill me, same way I wouldn't hesitate to kill them if I thought it was a good idea to do so.

Originally Posted by Mac

My point is that it was so foolish to seriously suspect Durelin to the point of voting at that point, that I can't believe that you, Fea, Lari, and Rune all did it out of honest intentions.

My intentions were honest.

I couldn't wrap my mind around the perversity of continuing to post in character at as critical of a moment as the time right before deadline.

I wanted to vote Rikae for the strange 'seer' actions of earlier, but didn't think I could get any support.

Therefore, Durelin as my last minute impulse vote. I figured, "Why not? The village will have less in character posting without her."

Today my suspicions lie most with those who are pushing hard for my lynching, namely Legate and Rikae.

I'm willing vote for for either, but leaning toward voting for Rikae, because she has a past (the seer thing) on my suspect list, versus Legate seems just to be following her lead.

Which may or may not be worse.

I'll be voting - unless something major changes very soon - for one of them tonight.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, you mean this one. That was in another post than the one I quoted, though. But okay, okay, you said it - only later. But when I look at it...

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Given how easily Fea gets herself lynched, there could be merit to the set-up idea. Killing Nogrod would give the wraiths an easy day. In any case: why would Fea want to kill Nogrod? She cannot be more than Ferny. Would the wraiths set up their cobbler like that, though?

To me, it seems once again just like downplaying it. What does it mean "would the wraiths set up their cobbler like that"? How would they be supposed to "set her up"? Cobbler and Wraiths do not talk to each other. But whatever.

I am going to make a last check if somebody didn't post, then vote and go.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

You say this with SUCH conviction. Just... y'all are so confident that you know my role, and you're wrong.

Oh but I am convinced. Okay, you may be also a Wraith, if what's been said about you being able to play like that is true.

I'd just like to suggest that when you kill me and realize that I really am actually just an ordo who is far too dramatic to be content with ordinariness, that you take very close looks at those who lead the charge against me.

Certainly. I can give you my word that for myself, I will be really interested in looking closer at those who suggested lynching you if you turn out to be an ordo. And maybe even without you turning out to be an ordo, it may be worth it just for checking. But whatever.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

How would they be supposed to "set her up"? Cobbler and Wraiths do not talk to each other. But whatever.

Last game I was a wolf. I knew who my cobbler was. He didn't try particularly hard to hide from me. When it was a toss up between me definitely dying and me maybe getting him killed instead, I tried to play it off like we were lovers, thereby at the very least incriminating him (that way whether or not I died, I'd give the actual wolves an extra day while the village dealt with the Boromir88 situation). So yeah. Cobblers and their Bad Guys never make educated guesses and act on them.

In any case... as a matter of being set up, it's a case of the wraiths taking advantage of an easy scenario and killing off Nog (who first suggested lynching me) to make it look like a knee jerk (which is what my Dury vote looked like), making it look like I either killed Nog, or whatever.

Why wouldn't wraiths take advantage of an easy way to kill an ordo? Look, Fea is impulsive: let's pretend like this is news to us and kill her for it!

By the way, can I just mention that barely anybody suspected me (at least publicly) until Nog suggested a last minute lynch of me?

So all this "Fea is sooooo suspicious" happened today.

Think about it.

One impulsive move after a decent track record of actually paying attention when others do strange things (Rikae/seer; Dury/ranger), and everybody decides not to remember that I wasn't suspected until five minutes before deadline yesterday.

Brilliance.

[Beregond]

Instead of spending three hours to read all the day's activity (I read slow, alas!), or giving the last two pages a less-than-cursory glance before making some silly comments with no relevance, I shall just for now point out that I'm alive, have had a very busy tiring day, and will try to catch up...sometime. Sooner, I hope. With a small portion of wine, if necessary.

All I ask is that no one post anything until I've read the last two pages!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, Fea, just one thing: even back then on Day 1, you acted like a Cobbler and there were people suspecting you. So do not try to play on us how sudden and unfortunate is this suspicion of you.

All right. I am going now.

Voting list toDay:

Rikae => Fea (Fea 1)
LG => Fea (Fea 2)
Lommy => sally (Fea 2, sally 1)
Agan => Fea (Fea 3, sally 1)

So one may as well add my vote to the list:

++Fea

As it seems the general meaning goes in her direction, now it'll probably be pretty easy for the Wolves to hide themselves in, but whatever, I guess it's worth it anyway. And please, do not attempt to vote somebody else again just for the sake of preventing a bandwaggon against her. We know how it ended yesterDay.

And one note about Mac. He is suspicious also by his... politeness, yea, that's the word. He is being so nice to everybody... not reacting on suspicions of himself unless it is really needed (if somebody asked him), or if he can use it to show how those who chase him are perhaps slightly wrong in their minds, poor them, but he knows they mean well, they are just mislead, poor ones, he will be so kind and point out their mistakes and hope them to reconsider. Oh Mac, there will be peace... when you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows.
So, okay, if we are lynching Fea today - let's see what can be done with him toMorrow.

Good night, village.

EDIT: x-ed with Beregond. Hello, Beregond. Hope you don't mind me posting. But you can surely bear one more post Good night to you all once again.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Fea:
First she echoes Noggie's bizarre reasoning. Now she's trying to pass her vote off as a revenge/joke vote, but she was obviously trying to give some people (read: newbies) the impression that Nog's theory had merit here (just after saying that it's useful to discuss the ranger's identity!):

This does not quite make sense. . .You make it sound like only newbies could be convinced of the theorys merit, yet the theory was presented by one of the most expirienced ww players of all!
So if this theory was one only newbies could think had merit why was it Nogrod an inocent that presented it.

That is the general fault in your crusade against Durelin voters, you make it seem like it was the worst idea ever to come up in ww. . .yet it was an innocent Nogrod who started it.

You really confuse me Rikae, earlier today I was sure you where innocent, but slowly I get doubts.

Anyways as things look now, I will probably vote Mac.

EDIT: Cross posted with Beregond and Legate (who made a silly vote)