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Old 06-14-2005, 02:26 PM   #1
Bęthberry
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Question That good night: gift or punishment?

I'm not really enamoured of starting threads, but Lalwendë has suggested this topic might make a good Books discussion, so I shall offer it in the hopes that I don't have to nurture the thread along.

The idea derived on Kath's Movies thread, "Death Portrayal". Most of us are aware that within Tolkien's Legendarium, death is said to be the gift of Illuvatar to man. This is a very different attitude towards death than that in Tolkien's own faith, where death is viewed as punishment for the sin of disobedience (or as a consequence of eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil) and thus something to be feared. I'm not sure how far a discussion would go into some of the implications for this difference, but I will copy some of the initial posts which got me thinking and then I'll just let everyone jump in--or not, as you all choose! The posts discussing the movies I won't copy here, as they belong to the topic in Movies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ar-Pharazon

The perception of death as a gift by Illuvatar to the mortal kinds is lost during the dark years of Melkor/Morgoth's reign in middle earth. Morgoth's creates a fear of death throught the slaying of the three kins and using death as tool to punish them. This twisted the perception of death for them. Men become fearful of death (ie Numenor invades Valinor to take immortality, because their king (my username) fears his impending death).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bethberry
Well, I'm going to ask a question which is in part inspired by Ar-Pharazon's post.

One of the aspects of the Legendarium's ethos which has always intrigued me is this idea that death is a gift. In pagan belief, death appears to have been represented as a part of the cycle of life, with the goddess of three aspects representing both fertility and death. (I say 'appears' as there are many forms of belief in the pagan, pre-Christian world and likely this is an overgeneralisation.)

Death certainly was not a gift in the Christian ethos which Tolkien believed in; it was/is punishment for the sin of disobedience (if I am understanding this correctly) or was a consequence of learning, of eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. If death is a punishment, then it becomes something to be feared, especially with dark predictions about torment in hell for people who have not behaved according to the required mythology.

What might Tolkien have been trying to suggest in calling death a gift? Is Ar-Pharazon correct in attributing to Melkor this twisted fear of death? Was Tolkien just writing a good story or was there something profound in what he wanted to say about attitudes towards death?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalwendë
This is a nice poser, Bethberry!

I think that this belief has much to do with the idea that the body itself returns to the Earth, returns the nourishment and energy it has gained whilst alive. Much pagan belief also places great importance in the sense of the earth as our Mother, so in effect we are born from her and then return to her. This is possibly why so many barrows and other tombs have small entrances and bear a resemblance to female anatomy; and linked to this are landscape features with names that hint at past reverence as 'mother' figures, such as Mam Tor, or the Paps of Jura.

In Tolkien's world, the spirit of Men leaves Arda at death, which is different to what we know of Pagan or ancient beliefs. Although, I cannot be sure of all the older beliefs, as I have the feeling that the Egyptians may have had something similar in that souls went into the stars?

Anyway, broadly generalising it seems that pagan beliefs see souls as part of the earth while Christian beliefs see souls as apart from the earth. The latter is akin to what happens to Men in/from Arda, but the former is akin to what happens to the Elves.

This has got far away from the original question though, but it would make a great new thread perhaps?
And now, over to you, Downers...
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