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Old 12-14-2005, 05:24 AM   #41
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By the way, would be interesting to learn what become of Shelob in fourth age/ I mean, she alone of the three would-be-allies survived Sauron's fall. How was she dealt with in Aragorn's kingdom - or did they just stop caring about her, like, let her live up there, we don't go there anyways?
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Old 12-22-2005, 11:39 AM   #42
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I think the Ring would have no problem with going to a Dragon. The real reason for this not happening in The Hobbit was because Tolkien obviously hadn't thought of that yet As for a canonical reason, Smaug was a sedentary being and perhaps the Ring thought the mobile Bilbo a better means of getting to Sauron.

Seeing how Dragons allready were powerful, think of the damage an invisible Dragon wielding the forces of the Ring (or some of them) could do!

I'm pretty sure that if the Ring,opportunistic thing that it is, thought tempting a Dragon or Balrog or Eagle or Ent or Warg or even a ladybug the best way to go, it would try to.

This begs the question,would Smaug the Dark Dragon Lord be able to destroy Sauron and take his place??
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Old 12-22-2005, 02:09 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Noxomanus
would Smaug the Dark Dragon Lord be able to destroy Sauron
Smaug could fly to Mount Doom and drop the Ring in, eagle-style.

Sorry. Please continue.
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Old 02-05-2006, 11:11 PM   #44
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Pipe Re:

Don't you think the dragons (and the Balrog) consider Sauron a renegade, considering that he left Morgoth's service after his defeat at Tol-in-Gaurhoth?

Orcs and trolls, perhaps, Sauron could control--especially those of beast origin--but even these he cannot control fully (q.v. the Orcs at Cirith Ungol). As Legolas have said, these beings have sworn their allegiance to Morgoth, and, well, Sauron is definitely no Morgoth.

However, as you have said, Sauron may have used his cunning to manipulate the three (Smaug, Durin's Bane, and Shelob) to do his will. Would it be more appropriate to say that it just happened that their wishes all coincided?

Since Balrogs are afraid of the Sun (reminded by Arien of what they could have been? But I digress), Durin's Bane, having taken Moria after the Dwarves foolishly awakened him, it wouldn't leave its safety except perhaps for serious reasons.

Smaug . . . well, Dragons are greedy by nature. Since Durin's Bane already had Moria, the next richest store of wealth is Erebor. So, he goes and takes it, and desolates the land around it as a security measure.

The giant spiders of Arda seem to like nice dark places in mountains. I don't know where Shelob originally came from, but it was said that she came there before Sauron took Mordor. And it was also said the she was no pet of Sauron.
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:13 AM   #45
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Sting Smaug lives

Originally Posted by ManofDale
What if Smaug was never destroyed and became swayed under the influence of Sauron with promises of gold (However he might ensnare him to his dark will), would the Eagles be able to contend with Smaug and the Nazgul on their Fell Beasts at the same time? What are your thoughts on this? Please elaborate as well on possible outcomes...
If Bards arrow goes astray, Smaug destroys Lake Town. The dwarves (via the Ravens) hear Smaug is coming back and are forced to leave. They return to the Iron Hills. Bilbo and Gandalf return to the West. There is no Battle of Five Armies. There is no rebuilding of Dale or of Erebor.

When the Battle of Dale occurs, Lake Town may have been rebuilt, but without the aid of the Dwarves, the men are quickly defeated. If Smaug helps, its a quick battle. Logically, Thranduil's kingdom is the next logical target. I don't see Thorin or Dain sending aid from the Iron Hills.

The Battle of Mirkwood - Here's where it can take a turn for good or bad. I'll keep it short. The wood elves, like the Lorien elves, use the woods as there defense and can easily defend against the Easterlings, also the wood elves are likely better archers than Bard of Lake Town was. If they have knowledge of Smaug's bald patch, they could in effect stop Smaug right there at the eaves of Mirkwood. The Easterlings would probably flee the woods in fear.

On the other hand Smaug could make quick work of the Elven Palace and burn the forest to ashes, creating another Desolation in the immediate area. The fleeing elves would get picked off by spiders (who stay out of the fight) and flee to Rivendell and Lorien. At that point the Eastern Army would proceed to conquer the lands east of the Misty Mountains.
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