odd Hobbit ages - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thulorongil · 04-27-2002, 01:23 PM

I am not sure, but in the appendix of my edition of LOTR, in the Hobbit family trees, some of the age differences seem a little odd. For example: Bilbo was born in 1290, Frodo in 1368, Samwise in 1380, Merry in 1382, and Pippin in 1390. If these are correct, then Merry would be 19, Sam 21, and Pippin 11 at the beginning of the Fellowship.
Does this occur in anyone else's?

Aosama, the Wandering Star · 04-27-2002, 04:51 PM

I thought the same thing. Then I had to go back and read the books all over again (yay!)
But really, seventeen years passed between the birthday party and the beginning of the Fellowship (if you mean the council of Elrond). So Frodo was really fifty (he waited for his fifteenth birthday, remember?), Merry was 36, Sam 35/38, and Pippin 28. Sam's age looks weird because in the family tree it shows Sam being born in 1380, and in the tale of years it says he's born in 1383 S.R., and I have yet to find out how old he really is. Or is this just my copy?

Voronwe · 04-27-2002, 05:01 PM

Frodo left the Shire in the year 1418 Shire Reckoning. I'll leave you to work out the ages of all the hobbits at that time from there.

Orodhromeus · 04-27-2002, 05:39 PM

Bilbo's farewell party takes place 50-33=17 years earlier than the Council of Elrond (Frodo's 50 in the rest of LotR and 33 in the party). That means it's in 1418-17=1401 SR. Merry, Pippin & Sam were all young at that time, unmature children/adolescents for the Hobbit standards. And indeed no mention is made of them in the first Chapter. In a parallel, we see Hamfast discussing in an inn in A Long-Expected Party and then we see his son Samwise arguing in the same inn in The Shadow of the Past. 17 years have passed, Hamfast has aged and Sam is no longer a child.

Child of the 7th Age · 04-27-2002, 06:02 PM

This passage of 17 years and the differences in age between Frodo and his friends are two of the nuances lost in Jackson's movie. It's understandable that Frodo is going to be much younger in the movie so he can be drop dead gorgeous. (Even with the Ring "freezing" his age in 1401, there's no way that he even looks 33.) But this theme is one that is present even in the Hobbit. After his adventure, the Hobbit says Bilbo's friends are mainly his younger relations from the Took family. Frodo seems to have followed the same practice of being closest with those younger than him, presumably because they are more adventurous, flexible, and understanding of his non-conforming ways. sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 04-27-2002, 07:01 PM

Your right, Sam and Frodo look about the same age in the movie, and Merry and Pippin look like their 16. Everyone looks exactly the same in the party as they do in Lothlorien near the end(in the movie). Did anyone else notice that?

Tigerlily Gamgee · 04-27-2002, 11:52 PM

Well, I don't think they specified it being 17 years later in the movie - so that is wht they probably didn't mind aging the actors...

As for Frodo looking very young in the movie... Isn't it said that Hobbits don't reach maturity until about the age of 3O? If that is so then they would still look young at that age, because humans reach "maturity" at the age of 18. So would 30 year old hobbits look like 18 year old humans? It is just a theory. Please, feel free to prove me wrong.
And if that is true, then... Frodo received the ring when he turned 33, the ring slowed his aging... so, at the age of 50 he still looks 33 (which would equal 20 in human maturity using my theory).

Arwen Imladris · 04-28-2002, 09:26 AM

Interesting theory Tigerlily Gamgee. I think it sounds O.K. It certainly explains a few things.

Orodhromeus · 04-28-2002, 11:48 AM

Of course there is an analogy between Hobbit & Human ages. Say Men reach maturity at 18; if Hobbits reach maturity (for the sake of the comparison we'll admit both physical & mental) at age 33, then there's a factor of 2 playing between those races. Hobbits reach 100 years quite often. If we take the same analogy, Men would reach 50 years, which is a quite respectable age for someone living in such harsh conditions in M-E, physically & medically. Of course the decendants of the Númenóreans are left outside, as they live much longer than your averange man. The analogy of approximately 2:1 still stands. How about Dwarves? What's their main age expectancy?

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 04-28-2002, 04:10 PM

I think around 70.

Susan Delgado · 04-29-2002, 02:40 AM

Dwarves live to about 250 years.

04-27-2002, 01:23 PM	#1
Thulorongil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: wherever the road may take me Posts: 97	odd Hobbit ages I am not sure, but in the appendix of my edition of LOTR, in the Hobbit family trees, some of the age differences seem a little odd. For example: Bilbo was born in 1290, Frodo in 1368, Samwise in 1380, Merry in 1382, and Pippin in 1390. If these are correct, then Merry would be 19, Sam 21, and Pippin 11 at the beginning of the Fellowship. Does this occur in anyone else's? __________________ I sit beside the fire and think of people long ago, And people who will see a world that I shall never know.

04-27-2002, 05:01 PM	#3
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	Frodo left the Shire in the year 1418 Shire Reckoning. I'll leave you to work out the ages of all the hobbits at that time from there. __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

04-27-2002, 06:02 PM	#5
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,135	This passage of 17 years and the differences in age between Frodo and his friends are two of the nuances lost in Jackson's movie. It's understandable that Frodo is going to be much younger in the movie so he can be drop dead gorgeous. (Even with the Ring "freezing" his age in 1401, there's no way that he even looks 33.) But this theme is one that is present even in the Hobbit. After his adventure, the Hobbit says Bilbo's friends are mainly his younger relations from the Took family. Frodo seems to have followed the same practice of being closest with those younger than him, presumably because they are more adventurous, flexible, and understanding of his non-conforming ways. sharon, the 7th age hobbit [ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

04-27-2002, 07:01 PM	#6
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	Your right, Sam and Frodo look about the same age in the movie, and Merry and Pippin look like their 16. Everyone looks exactly the same in the party as they do in Lothlorien near the end(in the movie). Did anyone else notice that? __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

04-27-2002, 11:52 PM	#7
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,056	Well, I don't think they specified it being 17 years later in the movie - so that is wht they probably didn't mind aging the actors... As for Frodo looking very young in the movie... Isn't it said that Hobbits don't reach maturity until about the age of 3O? If that is so then they would still look young at that age, because humans reach "maturity" at the age of 18. So would 30 year old hobbits look like 18 year old humans? It is just a theory. Please, feel free to prove me wrong. And if that is true, then... Frodo received the ring when he turned 33, the ring slowed his aging... so, at the age of 50 he still looks 33 (which would equal 20 in human maturity using my theory). __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

04-27-2002, 04:51 PM	#2
Aosama, the Wandering Star Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Middle-Earth Posts: 210	I thought the same thing. Then I had to go back and read the books all over again (yay!) But really, seventeen years passed between the birthday party and the beginning of the Fellowship (if you mean the council of Elrond). So Frodo was really fifty (he waited for his fifteenth birthday, remember?), Merry was 36, Sam 35/38, and Pippin 28. Sam's age looks weird because in the family tree it shows Sam being born in 1380, and in the tale of years it says he's born in 1383 S.R., and I have yet to find out how old he really is. Or is this just my copy?

04-27-2002, 05:39 PM	#4
Orodhromeus Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greece Posts: 106	Bilbo's farewell party takes place 50-33=17 years earlier than the Council of Elrond (Frodo's 50 in the rest of LotR and 33 in the party). That means it's in 1418-17=1401 SR. Merry, Pippin & Sam were all young at that time, unmature children/adolescents for the Hobbit standards. And indeed no mention is made of them in the first Chapter. In a parallel, we see Hamfast discussing in an inn in A Long-Expected Party and then we see his son Samwise arguing in the same inn in The Shadow of the Past. 17 years have passed, Hamfast has aged and Sam is no longer a child.

04-28-2002, 09:26 AM	#8
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	Interesting theory Tigerlily Gamgee. I think it sounds O.K. It certainly explains a few things. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

04-28-2002, 11:48 AM	#9
Orodhromeus Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Greece Posts: 106	Of course there is an analogy between Hobbit & Human ages. Say Men reach maturity at 18; if Hobbits reach maturity (for the sake of the comparison we'll admit both physical & mental) at age 33, then there's a factor of 2 playing between those races. Hobbits reach 100 years quite often. If we take the same analogy, Men would reach 50 years, which is a quite respectable age for someone living in such harsh conditions in M-E, physically & medically. Of course the decendants of the Númenóreans are left outside, as they live much longer than your averange man. The analogy of approximately 2:1 still stands. How about Dwarves? What's their main age expectancy?

04-28-2002, 04:10 PM	#10
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	I think around 70. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

04-29-2002, 02:40 AM	#11
Susan Delgado The Perished Flame Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: behind my eyes Posts: 1,096	Dwarves live to about 250 years. __________________ "Man as a whole, Man pitted against the universe, have we seen him at all 'til we see that he is like a hero in a fairy tale?"