Zep's Stairway and Tolkien

[Bombadil]

I checked the archives, and noticed a small discussion on Led Zeppelin lyrics and how they relate to Tolkien's works. But there was no in depth discussion on stairway to Heaven, which Robert Plant (Zeppelin's lead singer) says has nothign to do with Tolkien. I think he's holfding out on us though... I was thinking it may be about the tale of Aragorn and Arwen. For instance the opening line:

There's a lady who's sure, all that glitters is gold, and she's buying a stairway to heaven"

This opening line brings to thought the first line of Aragorn's poem (All that is gold does not glitter...) Not to mention the "buying the stairway to heaven" part. Perhaps representing Arwen givning up her immortal life for Aragorn.

Perhaps Arwen's longing for going west with her people, and her conflicitng emotions are represented in the line:

There's a feeling I get, when I look to the West, and my spirit is crying for leaving

But anyways, I'll leave the lyrics to the full song, and open this up for interpretation and discussion. Hopefully we can branch out to other Zep songs too, because there aare so many!!

There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold
And she's buying a stairway to heaven.
When she gets there she knows, if the stores are all closed
With a word she can get what she came for.
Ooh, ooh, and she's buying a stairway to heaven.

There's a sign on the wall but she wants to be sure
'Cause you know sometimes words have two meanings.
In a tree by the brook, there's a songbird who sings,
Sometimes all of our thoughts are misgiven.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it makes me wonder.

There's a feeling I get when I look to the west,
And my spirit is crying for leaving.
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees,
And the voices of those who stand looking.
Ooh, it makes me wonder,
Ooh, it really makes me wonder.

And it's whispered that soon if we all call the tune
Then the piper will lead us to reason.
And a new day will dawn for those who stand long
And the forests will echo with laughter.

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow, don't be alarmed now,
It's just a spring clean for the May queen.
Yes, there are two paths you can go by, but in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on.
And it makes me wonder.

Your head is humming and it won't go, in case you don't know,
The piper's calling you to join him,
Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.

And as we wind on down the road
Our shadows taller than our soul.
There walks a lady we all know
Who shines white light and wants to show
How everything still turns to gold.
And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last.
When all are one and one is all
To be a rock and not to roll.

And she's buying a stairway to heaven

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think he just 'namechecked' a few of Tolkien's famous lines. If Rob says its not about the Rings then why not take his word for it?

[ArathorofBarahir]

Go listen to the Battle of Evermore by Led Zeppelin, it mentions Ringwraiths, Aragorn and Arwen. Also Misty Mountain Hop and Ramble On are good songs too.

[Bombadil]

If peopel here haven't heard of Blind Guardian...you have to listen to them, they sing about tons of Tolkien's stories! But not subtle like Zeppelin.

[ArathorofBarahir]

Blind Guardian's songs are not subtle at all. The come out and say things about Men, Hobbits and Dwarves. If you like metal and LOTR go and download some of Blind Guardian's songs.

[Morgul Queen]

I am very much in love with the Curse of Feanor!

*sings along*

What?

[turgon]

Battle of evermore... could not be about anything but JrrT's world. Despite what Robert Plant said. There is another song in which Plant names gollum but I can't remember the title

[Sapphire_Flame]

There's a feeling I get when I look to the west,
And my spirit is crying for leaving.
In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees,
And the voices of those who stand looking.

That verse always reminds me of Frodo, after the quest. *sigh*

I agree that the song is not about LotR. But that's not to say that it couldn't have been influenced by it somewhat, even unintentionally. Be honest: how many people have written a poem, or drawn something, that when you looked at the finished product you find connections to things that you love, even if that's not what the piece is about? That may be some of the case with "Stairway".

"Battle of Evermore" is a great song about LotR, and the Battle of the Pelennor Field in particular. I know there's a site somewhere that analyzes the similarities, but the address escapes me at the moment. *headdesk* >.< Anyone else know it?

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

[Encaitare]

Here are a couple of good links:

Zeppelin and Tolkien Relations Page -- This site asserts that Stariway to Heaven is not LotR-related

LedTolkien.com -- all too short, but it makes some good connections

I myself am not nearly as brushed up on my Led as I should be... I must make a note to save my pennies and buy an album.

As for Blind Guardian, their Nightfall in Middle Earth CD doesn't make just references to LotR, but it's the Silmarillion, rock opera style. Very hardcore. I'm not sure about their other albums, though.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

[Tongue-in-cheek]"rings of smoke" is an obvious reference to Gandalf!

And "our shadows taller than our soul" comes from one of Tolkien's 'minor' works, Smith of Wootton Major, in which Smith's shadow is giant-sized after he comes back from Faery.[/Tongue-in-cheek]

[Morgul Queen]

*grins* Why do you think I love the Nightfall in Middle-earth album so much?

Time Stands Still (At The Iron Hill) is very good. But while we're on the subject, Pink Floyd has at least one Tolkien referance, but I can't remember the song.

Ah well, there's nothing for it. *grabs Echoes and starts listening while her mother yell for her to 'Turn That Racket Down!'*

[Lalwendë]

I've had to go and get my copy of Led Zep 'bible' Hammer of the Gods (title drawn from the masterpiece Immigrant Song)by Stephen Davis, to copy a quote; Tolkien is not mentioned as an inspiration for the song, although Plant appears to have been reading much mythology at the time. The book says:

Robert had been pouring through the works of the British antiquarian Lewis Spence. He later cited Spence's "Magic Arts in Celtic Britain" as one of the sources for the lyrics to "Stairway".

The interesting thing is that so many people associate the song with Tolkien, I always did until I read that passage, and still do - that kind of idea doesn't go away easily. Jimmy Page apparently said that Plant wrote most of the lyrics "on the spot" - so they must have a stream of consciousness quality about them.

Anyway, here is a quote from the author of the book that 'Downers might like:

Stairway to Heaven seemed like an invitation to abandon the new traditions and follow the old gods. It expressed an ineffable yearning for spiritual transformation deep in the hearts of the generation for which it was intended.

Strangely, this expresses my feelings about reading Tolkien!

[Bêthberry]

*comes walking out of the land of ice and snow and takes her tongue out of her cheek*

What would be the reason for Zep to use the Tolkien allusions? I mean, what are the similarities between his world and vision and that of the pounding sound of Led Zep? Or are they just tapping into some kind of northern heroic ideal, guy-type stuff?

Edit: I mean, other than a use of very vague allegorical references which ignore some of the more contemporary allusions which Tolkien would likely not condone. What I am getting at, in a very inellegant way, is, is there anything specific to Tolkien about the allusions or are they just similar images out of a celtic past? I am trying to distinguish between, say, fantasy and Tolkien fantasy.

[InklingElf]

I apologize for being so abrupt but I would think Led Zepp would be one of the numerous bands in the 60s-70s that was influenced by Tolkien so it is natural for their lyrics to have references to his books no matter how vague the explanation for such a reference to exist within the song.

Someone mentioned "Battle of Evermore" -- I think this song is more into this "fantasy motif" than "Stairway to Heaven" and in my opinion my opinion is probably a little ode to Mr.Tolkien and his own genre of fantasy.

[Lalwendë]

What would be the reason for Zep to use the Tolkien allusions? I mean, what are the similarities between his world and vision and that of the pounding sound of Led Zep? Or are they just tapping into some kind of northern heroic ideal, guy-type stuff?

I think, in the case of Led Zep, the latter of your statements does seem to fit the bill the best. Although I have read that Plant had a dual personality: on the one hand he was the archetypal testosterone fuelled rock star, but on the other, he had a deep interest in the 'mystic' and spiritual. He was quite possibly tempered by the influence of Page.

It's not surprising that they picked up on Tolkien as a source of imagery and inspiration, as his popularity was taking off at that time. Couple this with the hippy movement and a greater interest in spiritual matters, and hence old and celtic literature, and it's clear where so many artists took their influences from. Led Zep were not alone, Marc Bolan was also a Tolkien fan, as was John Lennon. No doubt more can be added.

I don't think many of the allusions are specific to Tolkien - it seemed to be a time when artists were taking influences from all over the place as far as fantasy and mythology are concerned. A good example of an image in popular culture which drew on multiple ideas was the hermit depicted inside the sleeve of Led Zeppelin IV - on one level, it is Gandalf, or is it an elf? It is also the Hermit of the tarot, and I have heard others say it is Merlin.

[Nimrodel_9]

Yes, much of it does sound like something an Elf or Frodo might say.