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Old 10-12-2017, 05:01 PM   #1
Victariongreyjoy
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A better purpose for the ghost army in ROTK

I loved ROTK, but was mad about how weak the gondorian soldiers were portrayed, and how rushed the battle of Minas Tirith was concluded. Beregond should have been present in the movie, along with the Swan Knights. They should have been the reinforcement Aragorn brought with him.
I would have taken the liberty to having Sauron command the wraiths in Barrow Downs, to come forth and starting attacking the armies in Pelennor Fields. Then, in the nick of time the ghost army can arrive and destroy the wraiths.

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Old 10-13-2017, 05:39 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Victariongreyjoy View Post
I loved ROTK, but was mad about how weak the gondorian soldiers were portrayed, and how rushed the battle of Minas Tirith was included. Beregond should have been present in the movie, along with the Swan Knights. They should have been the reinforcement Aragorn brought with him.
I would have taken the liberty to having Sauron command the wraiths in Barrow Downs, to come forth and starting attacking the armies in Pelennor Fields. Then, in the nick of time the ghost army can arrive and destroy the wraiths.
I agree that there were a lot of aspects where the might of Gondor is needlessly diminished... Apparently the gate was the strongest part of Minas Tirith, seeing how the walls simply crumbled whenever hit with a piece of rock.

I can forgive PJ for not introducing yet another character (Beregond), but I would really have loved to see the nights of Dol Amroth.

However to introduce the Barrow Wights (Characters not previously introduced) at a random place and time seems outright silly.
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Old 10-13-2017, 07:53 AM   #3
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Surely it would have made more sense to have not included the Dead at all, and simply to have had Aragorn arrive with boatloads of reinforcements. Not as much of a spectacle, but it wouldn't induce a plot hole the way the film does by having them at the Pelennor.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:00 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne View Post
I agree that there were a lot of aspects where the might of Gondor is needlessly diminished... Apparently the gate was the strongest part of Minas Tirith, seeing how the walls simply crumbled whenever hit with a piece of rock.

I can forgive PJ for not introducing yet another character (Beregond), but I would really have loved to see the nights of Dol Amroth.

However to introduce the Barrow Wights (Characters not previously introduced) at a random place and time seems outright silly.
if WB were to make movies from Shadow of Mordor\War or War of The North, do you think they could include Dol Amroth and the Swan Knights in some capacity? Or perhaps they are more suited in a potential young Strider film?
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:06 AM   #5
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I think having the arrival of Elrond's two sons, some Rangers and Dol Amroth would have been very confusing to casual movie goers.

PJ originally wanted the Dead to be walking skeletons but later went to invincible undead ghost army.

I can also understand the under powering of the Gondorian soldiers-if they are portrayed as too strong(10 orcs for one Gondorian) the audience will struggle to take the threat seriously.

As for the gate-the deleted scene shows the orcs do try and use a conventional ram and get massacred for their trouble and so they bring in grond. After that Mordor uses the Olog hai quite sensibly as shock troops to shatter the Gondorian line in the courtyard and gate area.

I love the movie too but that's my take.
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Old 11-04-2017, 11:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victariongreyjoy View Post
I loved ROTK, but was mad about how weak the gondorian soldiers were portrayed, and how rushed the battle of Minas Tirith was concluded. Beregond should have been present in the movie, along with the Swan Knights. They should have been the reinforcement Aragorn brought with him.
I would have taken the liberty to having Sauron command the wraiths in Barrow Downs, to come forth and starting attacking the armies in Pelennor Fields. Then, in the nick of time the ghost army can arrive and destroy the wraiths.
I agree that there were a lot of aspects where the might of Gondor is needlessly diminished... Apparently the gate was the strongest part of Minas Tirith, seeing how the walls simply crumbled whenever hit with a piece of rock.

I can forgive PJ for not introducing yet another character (Beregond), but I would really have loved to see the nights of Dol Amroth.

However to introduce the Barrow Wights (Characters not previously introduced) at a random place and time seems outright silly.
No, no, we just need to slip in some discrete expository dialogue:

EXT. PELENNOR FIELDS - DAY

PAN OFF: DENETHOR'S DEATH PLUNGE to the ROHIRRIM gaining the
upper hand - VAST NUMBERS of ORCS are SLAIN, or are FLEEING!

EOMER
Drive them into the river!

THEODEN STANDS PROUD in his saddle, YELLING to his ROHIRRIM!

THEODEN
(yelling)
Make safe the city!

CLOSE ON: THEODEN . . . his look of JOY turns to HORROR!

ANGLE ON: Across the VAST SEA of BATTLE come ...

. . . Hordes of sinister BARROW-WIGHTS!

ANGLE ON: ROHIRRIM RIDERS PANICKING.

ANGLE ON: MERRY and EOWYN.

MERRY
Oh no! I think those are Barrow-wights!

EOWYN
(struggling to control her horse)
Barrow what?

MERRY
Barrow-wights. Evil spirits that haunt the ancient burial hills near the Shire. Not that I've ever been there myself, but we were at one point considering taking a short cut in that general direction-

THEODEN
(sword raised)
... Charge!

ANGLE ON: ROHIRRIM RIDERS CHARGE TOWARDS THE LINE OF WIGHTS!

EOWYN
Yes, yes, that's very interesting, Merry, but what are they doing here? Has the Dark Lord summoned them?

MERRY
Probably. I mean they might work for him, for all I know. It's not like I've ever actually met one before-!

The WIGHTS overwhelm the
PANICKING ROHIRRIM! EOWYN and MERRY are THROWN from their HORSE...

There! Seamless!
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Old 11-05-2017, 11:11 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Victariongreyjoy View Post
I would have taken the liberty to having Sauron command the wraiths in Barrow Downs, to come forth and starting attacking the armies in Pelennor Fields. Then, in the nick of time the ghost army can arrive and destroy the wraiths.
You can only have the Barrow Wights attack the Pelennor if you then allow Tom Bombadil to suddenly come dancing, prancing and pirouetting down the lane and put the Mūmakil to sleep with one of his patented lullabies.

After all, one inane liberty deserves another.
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Old 11-05-2017, 10:50 PM   #8
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I think overall the Pelennor fields battle worked on screen. Introducing the swan Knights and Imrahil would have confused movie audiences.
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Old 11-08-2017, 03:03 AM   #9
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I think overall the Pelennor fields battle worked on screen. Introducing the swan Knights and Imrahil would have confused movie audiences.
Yes, if they had only been introduced at that point.

I am actually quite fond of the passage in the book where Pippin and Bergil watch the reinforcements arrive. It gives the reader an idea of the structure of the Gondorian state, but also a sense of the peril and hopeless situation of Minas Tirith.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:39 PM   #10
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Yes, if they had only been introduced at that point.

I am actually quite fond of the passage in the book where Pippin and Bergil watch the reinforcements arrive. It gives the reader about the structure of the Gondorian state, but also a sense of the peril and hopeless situation of Minas Tirith.
Yes, that is an important passage, Rune. I think the movies minimized the actual contribution and sacrifices of the Gondorions and their allies/vassals. The poignancy of the loss of such lords as Forlong the Fat at Pelennor made the books far superior in the aspects of lyricism and depth during the battle of Minas Tirith.

In fact, I think Jackson minimized the abilities and heroism of Gondorions, making them for the most part gibbering idiots and cowards. Even outnumbered as they were, one tall Gondorion was more than a match for any single orc, yet often we see the orcs overrunning Gondorions and defeating them single-handedly.
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Old 11-10-2017, 11:31 PM   #11
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Yes, if they had only been introduced at that point.

I am actually quite fond of the passage in the book where Pippin and Bergil watch the reinforcements arrive. It gives the reader an idea of the structure of the Gondorian state, but also a sense of the peril and hopeless situation of Minas Tirith.
How would you have introduced them previously?
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Old 11-16-2017, 02:58 AM   #12
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How would you have introduced them previously?
By including a scene where Bergil and Pipin watch the reinforcements arrive...
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