Character line delivery changes - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rosolas · 01-09-2003, 04:02 PM

First of all, I am new to this forum, so do forgive me if I have posted this topic in the wrong place.I have only recently started reading Tolkien. I have just finished reading "The Hobbit" for the first time, and I have now just started reading "FoTR". Before I started to read it properly, I quickly skimmed through some pages as I usually do, and I noticed that in the "Lothlorien" chapter it is Galadriel who asks where Gandalf is not Celeborn as in the film, and it is Aragorn who answers "He has passed into shadow" and not Galadriel as in the film.Now they may be some perfectly logical explanation for this, so please be patient with me if you wish to answer my question.

Elanor · 01-09-2003, 04:07 PM

Hi and welcome to the Forum.There were quite a few similar changes, where they shifted a line to someone else. I don't know of any specific reasons why they did that, but I like the fact that they still used the lines.My guess with that particular example, is that they wanted to show Galadriel's ability to see/guess/predict what had happened or would happen elsewhere (however you want to phrase it). It shows that she knows things you wouldn't expect her to, and immediately the audience knows that there is something special, and wise, about her. That's just my opinion.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-09-2003, 06:45 PM

It does seem strange though that, if she knew of it already, Galadriel didn't tell her husband so that he had to ask the question. You would have thought that the passing of a Wizard like Gandalf would be a matter of great import in ME, one likely to be discussed over the breakfast table while reading the papers.Don't they ever talk? Is their marriage on the rocks?

Diamond18 · 01-09-2003, 09:38 PM

Well, I noticed that Galadriel and Aragorn were looking each other in the eye in that "telepathy" way, so I assumed that it was not until that moment, when she read Aragorn's mind, that she knew Gandalf had fallen into shadow. So that would explain why she didn't tell Celeborn until then. I agree that they probably wanted to play up her mind-reading ability, so instead of Aragorn just saying it out loud, he told her mentally.This was one of the more subtle character-line-switches. Good eyes, Rosolas. But stop skimming! You'll ruin the book that way!

Fingo · 01-09-2003, 10:25 PM

I got so frustrated with the movies switching character's lines around so blatantly in some parts, that I almost ruined my Two Towers experince by being so nit picky. Wow, I didn't mean to sound so critical, I'm not trying to be at all. Good job catching those lines but don't get so caught up in the differences that you think the movie bad in that way. Just wanted to relate an experience, that's all.~Fingo, lonely hobbit wanderer~[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Fingo ]

Konarmi · 01-09-2003, 11:47 PM

PJ switched so much around!!!I read the FOTR before I went to see the movie. As I was watching I was waiting for certain characters to appear.. never came!! so I'm holding back on reading ROTK until it's released.. just finished Silmarillion.. that's a crazy read!

Pookabunny · 01-10-2003, 12:39 AM

There was a lot of switching-around of lines from characters and even in the order of the books. For instance, there are even scenes and foreshadowing that happens in the appendicies in ROTK. There are changes made that I'm unhappy with, and changes that I was very happy with. I've watched as many as the special features/interviews/making of/behind the scenes...etc so I can get a better understanding of why these changes were made. Before I even watched those I realized that certain changes were necessary in order for the story to make more sense. With an open mind, I enjoyed the films a lot more.I'm always open to critizism, but there are people who are just OUT THERE when it comes to bashing the films. And that's okay - because there's always the books. As long as film doesn't EVER become a replacement for the books, then I'm a happy camper. YAY FOR LITERACY!!!***off topic note*** Spanking of literacy, I saw the most disturbing picture the other day. It was a picture of (ugh I hate that I have to utter this name) Britney Spears holding a book and the sign just says "Read" then her name at the bottom. Umm I'm not a pop expert or anything, but where's the credibility in that?

Diamond18 · 01-10-2003, 12:57 AM

Wasn't just any book, it was Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone. And she's wearing a T-shirt with the American flag on it, right?That poster is hanging up in the library where I work, in the little kids section. I have to look at it almost every day. Pity me.All right, an off topic post and a plea for pity. Must be after midnight, and high time to go to bed.

Pookabunny · 01-10-2003, 03:28 AM

One cool thing I noticed in the book was the scene in Moria when Galdalf did the "Many that live deserve death" speech - in the book, I believe he said it while still in the shire. And weren't all Glorfindel's lines (umm, and uh CHARACTER) endowed to Arwen? hee hee... **** back to off-topic note*** That's exactly the pic! I guess I can live with it, even though I am a Harry Potter fan. I would be severely offended if she was holding the bible. That would just be proof that she's sacreligious and in fact the Anti-Christ. Might as well have a picture of Roseann Arnold holding a microphone with the slogan "sing". The two just don't belong together!

doug*platypus · 01-15-2003, 06:48 AM

Excellent topic, Rosolas, although you may regret starting it when you see how deeply bitter and twisted some Downers have become since TTT came out.The answer to your question is that the Three-Headed Script Monster of Peter Jackson/Phillipa Boyens/Fran Walsh frequently transplanted dialogue from character to character in either movie, without fully realising what they were doing. Also, chapter titles somehow became complete sentences (Riddles in the Dark, A Long-Expected Party, etc.). I believe this was a half-hearted attempt to placate fans of the book. However in many instances the transplants did not 'take' very well. Much like placing pig organs into humans, this is a relatively untested procedure and fraught with difficulties. Legolas, for example recognises the "Crebain from Dunland", despite the notable handicap of never having been there! I'm sure someone may try to explain this away by saying he could have gone there, but I don't see why he would. I feel that all too often the filmmakers treated the dialogue as superficial, and just threw it around randomly. I feel sorry for them that they did not have a better appreciation for such a great literary work.

01-09-2003, 04:02 PM	#1
Rosolas Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: England Posts: 32	Character line delivery changes First of all, I am new to this forum, so do forgive me if I have posted this topic in the wrong place.<P>I have only recently started reading Tolkien. I have just finished reading "The Hobbit" for the first time, and I have now just started reading "FoTR". Before I started to read it properly, I quickly skimmed through some pages as I usually do, and I noticed that in the "Lothlorien" chapter it is Galadriel who asks where Gandalf is not Celeborn as in the film, and it is Aragorn who answers "He has passed into shadow" and not Galadriel as in the film.<P>Now they may be some perfectly logical explanation for this, so please be patient with me if you wish to answer my question.

01-09-2003, 04:07 PM	#2
Elanor Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: my own corner of the Shire Posts: 321	Hi and welcome to the Forum.<P>There were quite a few similar changes, where they shifted a line to someone else. I don't know of any specific reasons why they did that, but I like the fact that they still used the lines.<P>My guess with that particular example, is that they wanted to show Galadriel's ability to see/guess/predict what had happened or would happen elsewhere (however you want to phrase it). It shows that she knows things you wouldn't expect her to, and immediately the audience knows that there is something special, and wise, about her. That's just my opinion. __________________ "When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Henny Youngman (1906 - )

01-09-2003, 06:45 PM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,468	It does seem strange though that, if she knew of it already, Galadriel didn't tell her husband so that he had to ask the question. You would have thought that the passing of a Wizard like Gandalf would be a matter of great import in ME, one likely to be discussed over the breakfast table while reading the papers.<P>Don't they ever talk? Is their marriage on the rocks? __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-09-2003, 09:38 PM	#4
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	Well, I noticed that Galadriel and Aragorn were looking each other in the eye in that "telepathy" way, so I assumed that it was not until that moment, when she read Aragorn's mind, that she knew Gandalf had fallen into shadow. So that would explain why she didn't tell Celeborn until then. I agree that they probably wanted to play up her mind-reading ability, so instead of Aragorn just saying it out loud, he told her mentally.<P>This was one of the more subtle character-line-switches. Good eyes, Rosolas. But stop skimming! You'll ruin the book that way! __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-09-2003, 10:25 PM	#5
Fingo Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Over the river and through the woods (literally) Posts: 59	I got so frustrated with the movies switching character's lines around so blatantly in some parts, that I almost ruined my Two Towers experince by being so nit picky. Wow, I didn't mean to sound so critical, I'm not trying to be at all. Good job catching those lines but don't get so caught up in the differences that you think the movie bad in that way. Just wanted to relate an experience, that's all.<P>~Fingo, lonely hobbit wanderer~<p>[ January 09, 2003: Message edited by: Fingo ] __________________ "We are raised to honor all the wrong explorers and discoverers- thieves planting flags, murderers carrying crosses. Let us at last praise the colonizers of dreams."

01-09-2003, 11:47 PM	#6
Konarmi Pile O'Bones Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 21	PJ switched so much around!!!<P>I read the FOTR before I went to see the movie. As I was watching I was waiting for certain characters to appear.. never came!! so I'm holding back on reading ROTK until it's released.. just finished Silmarillion.. that's a crazy read! __________________ .:Welcome to thelordoftherings.ca:.

01-10-2003, 12:39 AM	#7
Pookabunny Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The only place that matters! Posts: 181	There was a lot of switching-around of lines from characters and even in the order of the books. For instance, there are even scenes and foreshadowing that happens in the appendicies in ROTK.<BR>There are changes made that I'm unhappy with, and changes that I was very happy with. I've watched as many as the special features/interviews/making of/behind the scenes...etc so I can get a better understanding of why these changes were made. Before I even watched those I realized that certain changes were necessary in order for the story to make more sense. With an open mind, I enjoyed the films a lot more.<P>I'm always open to critizism, but there are people who are just OUT THERE when it comes to bashing the films. And that's okay - because there's always the books. As long as film doesn't EVER become a replacement for the books, then I'm a happy camper. YAY FOR LITERACY!!!<P>*off topic note*<BR>Spanking of literacy, I saw the most disturbing picture the other day. It was a picture of (ugh I hate that I have to utter this name) Britney Spears holding a book and the sign just says "Read" then her name at the bottom. Umm I'm not a pop expert or anything, but where's the credibility in that? __________________ "I love you more than I did the week before, I discovered alcohol" - Bare Naked Ladies

01-10-2003, 12:57 AM	#8
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,561	Wasn't just any book, it was Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone. And she's wearing a T-shirt with the American flag on it, right?<P>That poster is hanging up in the library where I work, in the little kids section. I have to look at it almost every day. Pity me.<P>All right, an off topic post and a plea for pity. Must be after midnight, and high time to go to bed. __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

01-10-2003, 03:28 AM	#9
Pookabunny Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The only place that matters! Posts: 181	One cool thing I noticed in the book was the scene in Moria when Galdalf did the "Many that live deserve death" speech - in the book, I believe he said it while still in the shire. And weren't all Glorfindel's lines (umm, and uh CHARACTER) endowed to Arwen? hee hee... <P><BR>** back to off-topic note*<BR>That's exactly the pic! I guess I can live with it, even though I am a Harry Potter fan. I would be severely offended if she was holding the bible. That would just be proof that she's sacreligious and in fact the Anti-Christ. Might as well have a picture of Roseann Arnold holding a microphone with the slogan "sing". The two just don't belong together! __________________ "I love you more than I did the week before, I discovered alcohol" - Bare Naked Ladies

01-15-2003, 06:48 AM	#10
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 963	Excellent topic, Rosolas, although you may regret starting it when you see how deeply bitter and twisted some Downers have become since TTT came out.<P>The answer to your question is that the Three-Headed Script Monster of Peter Jackson/Phillipa Boyens/Fran Walsh frequently transplanted dialogue from character to character in either movie, without fully realising what they were doing. Also, chapter titles somehow became complete sentences (Riddles in the Dark, A Long-Expected Party, etc.). I believe this was a half-hearted attempt to placate fans of the book. <P>However in many instances the transplants did not 'take' very well. Much like placing pig organs into humans, this is a relatively untested procedure and fraught with difficulties. Legolas, for example recognises the "<I>Crebain</I> from Dunland", despite the notable handicap of never having been there! I'm sure someone may try to explain this away by saying he <I>could</I> have gone there, but I don't see why he would. I feel that all too often the filmmakers treated the dialogue as superficial, and just threw it around randomly. I feel sorry for them that they did not have a better appreciation for such a great literary work. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.