Can the Valar Sentence People to Death?

[Galadriel]

What I mean is, can they sentence Elves to death? I'm probably asking a stupid question, since I've possibly overlooked this aspect, but I'd like to know, thanks. I know they can curse them, but killing is another thing. Though I suppose because the Noldor were put under a curse they were killed.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I don't remember anything in the text about this matter, but I'm sure they would not make such a decision without consulting Eru.

[Galadriel55]

I don't recall any death penalties. Banishments, curses, imprisonments, other punishments, but not death. Though death can indeed be the consequesne of one of there.

[Mithalwen]

It is a slightly odd concept given the nature of Elvish life. If the Valar did such a thing they would in effect be confining them to Mandos for a period until their contemplation of their wrongdoing had brought them to a state of contrition such as they could be permitted to return to life and perhaps make atonement. Presumably the Valar could effect a similar confinement without having to actually execute a death sentence.

The doom of Mandos suggests to me that death is a consequence of their actions rather than a punishment for them.

I wouldn' t like to make assumptions regarding Tolkien's attitude to the death penalty which was still used in England & Wales at the time he wrote LOTR certainly, however Gandalf's words to Frodo about Gollum were a factor settling my feelings on the matter. Certainly though the death penalty exists in Gondor - Faramir says his life will be forfeit for letting Frodo go and the "penalty of old" for Beregond's crimes but they are remitted.

It just doesn't seem a likely scenario to me.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I don't remember anything in the text about this matter, but I'm sure they would not make such a decision without consulting Eru.

That's what I thought.

Let's assume a scenario. Suppose Maglor just randomly turns up at Alqualondë (suspension of disbelief needed at this point) and starts shooting people. Will the Valar simply banish him again, or have him killed? You can assume he lost his mind, if you like

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Tulkas would tie him in knots and they'd wait for Eru to show up.

[Mithalwen]

Or if he were killed to stop him killing others, that isn't exactly sentencing to death - more a form of self defence, perhaps comparable to Grima being shot by the hobbits after murdering Saruman.

Sentence does imply some sort of trial and judgement, IMO.

[Galadriel55]

I think Maglor would be either killed by the elves who defend themselves or imprisoned by the Valar (physically). I don't think they will banish him again, since it had no effect on him. What's the point of a punishent if it doesn't get the point across?

[Galadriel]

I think, since banishing the Noldor led to their death, why should the Valar stop there?

Okay, forget that. What if Eru came and said, "Do what you want with him." Not that he'd actually say that, or he'd say it very differently, but what then?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

I think, since banishing the Noldor led to their death, why should the Valar stop there?

Okay, forget that. What if Eru came and said, "Do what you want with him." Not that he'd actually say that, or he'd say it very differently, but what then?

Are you saying the Valar effectively killed those Noldor? That's going way too far, if you ask me!

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Are you saying the Valar effectively killed those Noldor? That's going way too far, if you ask me!

Actually, if one was inclined to follow that proposition (ie, the Valar were responsible for the deaths of the Noldor due to their Ban), one might as well say the Valar were responsible for the Kinslaying as well, because it was the Valar who dragged the Noldor to Valinor in the first place. In either case, the concept is flawed, and does not take into account any free will or personal responsibility on the part of the Noldor.

If one follows the story, the Valar do not sentence anyone to death, not even Morgoth. Such punishment is always deferred to Eru, particularly in the case of the Children of Iluvatar. He who gives life is the one who can take it away.