Minor Changes Wishlist

[Elendur]

I think they made Galadriel and Arwen seem too much like angels on earth. I would have liked it if every time I saw Galadriel she wasn't glowing so brightly it hurt my eyes. Im overdoing it a little, but you know what I mean.<P>SEAN BEAN SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN TO BE ARAGORN! Hes one damn fine actor! <P>The fighting scene in the beginning was too short! It should have gone on for a longer period to show just how huge that battle was (Like the beginning battle in Gladiator that left you saying WOW!). And Sauron should have moved faster and lasted a little longer to give it some more spice. <P>The Balrog moved too slowly. It didnt look 'cool' enough. It would have been nice eye candy to see him do a little more than roar and take one swing at Gandalf.<P>The Ringwraiths moved much too slowly on Weathertop. It was one of those typical scenes where you keep saying JUMP ON THE FREAKIN HOBBIT AND TAKE IT! I just feel like that scene wasnt played out right.<P>Gandalf should have falled faster than he did. Boromir could have ran over, smoked a pipe, and then pulled Gandalf up in that timeframe he was hanging there. <P>Thats all the complaining I can do for now! Other than that the movie was AWESOME. I give it a 10/10.

[Elrian]

They over did Galadriel both the emulation and her appearance on the other side, she was supposed to be more beautiful on the other side, not look like something Tim Buton would create.

[Zippo]

Haha. i agree Totally on the galadriel thing haha!

[Iulbahar]

Yes, one of the few things I objected to was the sudden transformation of Galadriel when she was being "tested" by the ring. I think a simple lighting change and a different camera angle would have been more effective.<BR>Ditto, in Rivendell when Bilbo asks for another look at the ring. He looked like something from "Salem's Lot".

[The Barrow-Wight]

The Galadriel and Bilbo transformation were the only immediate (albeit small) gripes I took away from the film, especially Galadriel. I thought she was going to explode for moment, and the male voice accompanying her own sounded like an Excorcist scene. Still, all-in-all, I loved the movie.

[Lush]

Oh yes, a few more seconds of Galadriel's "evil witch" moment, and I would have been cowering under my seat. I can't decide whether that's good or bad.<BR>I thought the scene itself was relevant, and quite powerful, but I can understand how most people, especially those who really like Galadriel, wouldn't enjoy it.

[Elrian]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Iulbahar:<BR><STRONG>Yes, one of the few things I objected to was the sudden transformation of Galadriel when she was being "tested" by the ring. I think a simple lighting change and a different camera angle would have been more effective.<BR>Ditto, in Rivendell when Bilbo asks for another look at the ring. He looked like something from "Salem's Lot".</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>All Bilbo needed was the green eyes for that shot. Do I know you from somewhere else?

[Imperica]

I agree with the "Angels on Earth" comment. Galadriel was glowing way too much

[Ulmo]

After 3 screenings of the movie, I am still in awe. Just an amazing movie. Still, several things in the movie are starting to bug me; gnawing at me really. These are things that the average viewer, the ones who have not read the books, would not know or care about. <P>In the book, fellow Hobbits Pippin and Merry are fun-loving but deeply committed friends of Frodo’s, who secretly plan to join his flight into danger, while in the film they’re just dim-witted, pranksters, who fall in by mistake. <P>Sam, who in the book feels a stirring duty to see the quest through, whines here to go home. <P>Elrond the half-elf is depicted as a mortal-disdaining snob, concerned for his own hide, instead of the good of all, that the ring depart his land. Not to mention the fact that Elrond is one of the greatest Elves in the history of Middle-earth. An elf who was born in the First Age, keeper of the Great Ring, Vilya, leading member of the White Council, and at the time of The Council of Elrond, he was over 6,500 years old! A character of this renown needs to be treated with more respect (and more screen time!). <P>The elf queen Galadriel becomes a witchy cartoon. And we never get to see the gifts she gives every member of the Fellowship, only Frodo's was shown. And I wish they hadn't changed the Mirror of Galadriel sceen. <P>Gandalf shies from journeying into the dwarf mines of Moria, while in the book he’s the one who advances that idea, despite the peril it presents to him. <P>The onscreen Aragorn is badly in need of a couch on which to pour out his phobia about claiming his kingship because his ancient forebear had proved unworthy. In the book, rather, he is anxious to claim his kingship, and is torn between his desire to lead his land and his loyalty to Frodo and his quest. <P>I like the expanded role of Arwen, but dammit, why did you have to get rid of Glorfindel! He fought in the Battle of Fornost! <P>I wish they would have shown Gollum following the fellowship on the Anduin River <P>.....But I digress, the movie is still one of the best movie of all time (IMHO), but o man, with a few minor, ahem, improvements, this movie could have been....................

[Elendur]

I agree with you, Ulmo, but in the movie Sam is actually quite intent on going on and helping Frodo. (i.e. almost drowning to stay with Frodo)

[Pippin]

I agree on the Galadriel part...and someone somewhere said that poor Celeborn only got one line, wheras he's much more important in the book. also he sounded kinda spaced out...<P>I was disappointed that I didn't see even one mallorn tree too...<P>Merry and Pippin...<BR>this DID annoy me somewhat. whilst there WERE some good comedy moments, they were very one-dimensional and the "mission-quest-thing" wasn't that important...or Elrond would have protested more about them being part of the fellowship given that they didn't even know where they were going. Also it kinda bugged me that they were always treated as one, almost pronounced "MerryanPippin", with Pippin having little or no personality of his own, rather following Merry's lead all the time. in defence of my namesake, I'd like to say <P>but don't get me wrong...twas a very good attempt. never in a thousand years are they gonna make a film of LotR, or in fact any film, that totally satisfies ALL of the fans. it's still the best movie I've ever seen, and I loved it. I didn't really notice the minor faults until afterwards and I was released from the spell...

[Legolas]

Yeah. Biblo's little transformation didn't bother me much, but when Galadriel did her thing, it was just a little too much...looked corny, almost ridiculous.<P>I didn't really understand why they bothered to have Arwen discover Aragorn and the hobbits instead of Glorfindel. I hope the next two don't leave out minor details like that (that wouldn't have been any trouble to keep parallel to the book). I hope we see Radagast.

[Elanor]

I was disappointed that they never mentioned Boromir's dream, and the prophesy about Aragorn. It was never explained why everyone suddenly arrived in Rivendell - for all we knew, Gimli, Legolas and Boromir had just popped in for tea

[Fenrir]

I wish the Nazgul didn't scream quite so much, it also gets on my nerves that they're sent to <I>kill</I> not <I>capture</I> Baggins. I felt the casting for Frodo was wrong, he seemed to young and rather wooden in places. Is Elijah Wood American, he seemed to be working so hard on the English accent that he forgot to put expression in.<P>p.s. If they change the dialogue between Gandalf/tLotN and Eowyn/tLotN in the third movie someone will pay *evil laugh*<p>[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

WHERE WAS TOM BOMBADIL!!!!!!!

[Lush]

Not there. He was expendable (plot-wise), and they couldn't let the movie run to something like 3 hours and 45 minutes. Although it's a pity, because Tom and Goldberry were both amazing in the book. It's understandable that they couldn't squeeze them in, but a little sad nonetheless.

FoTR: My Cut<P>The scene with Saruman casting some sort of spell on Mt. Caradhras causing the snowfall would go, as would his casual perusal of whatever book it was and his comments about the spirit of darkness and flame. Gimli would no longer be gung-ho to go to Moria. Instead, a short scene in camp one night would show Gandalf and Aragorn talking and discussing their plans - with Gandalf recommending Moria for speed, but Aragorn refusing because it's too dangerous. Then on the mountain, there would be the avalanche, Gandalf looks meaningfully at Aragorn, and they head to the mines.<P>Galadriel's strange transformation would disappear, and be replaced by a subtle lighting change and softly spoken words.<P>The beginning scene would not be told until Frodo has the ring and Gandalf is telling him about it.<P>The "fight scene" between Saruman and Gandalf would disappear.<P>Gandalf would not utter anything even remotely similar to "just follow your nose". Thanks, Mr. Froot Loops Toucan.<P>More shots of Gollum discreetly following the party.<P>Shorter fight scene in the mines.<P>Try to work Merry & Pippin in per books - as friends of Frodo who become aware of his danger and refuse to leave him.

I just wanted to say that the first 8 posting made me laugh! I saw the film with 10 friends who are SERIOUS Tolkien fans, like myself. when the "Demon-Bilbo" scene (as we now call it) came on, we all rolled laughing uncontrolably. I actually felt bad, like I was disturbing others & making light of the seriousness that was obviously intended, but I COULD NOT stop! That was just stinkin' silly! WHOOOOWHEEEE!!!!

I actually really LIKED the Bilbo transformation, really helped bring home the shock of the moment. However, I did NOT care for Galadriels, for the reasons that have already been stated. <P>As for the Balrog, you didn't see him do much, because he and Gandalf were not having a PHYSICAL fight, there fight was beyond even the means of mortal men to really see. That's the way I always felt the book conveyed it to. Job well done there.

[Mister Underhill]

Drat it all that I haven't had more time to participate in these very articulate and impassioned movie discussions. Just a couple of notes to add here. There is a basis for the Bilbo-CGI scene in the books: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>When he had dressed, Frodo found that while he slept the Ring had been hung about his neck on a new chain, light but strong. Slowly he drew it out. Bilbo put out his hand. But Frodo quickly drew back the Ring. To his distress and amazement he found that he was no longer looking at Bilbo; a shadow seemed to have fallen between them, and through it he found himself eyeing a little wrinkled creature with a hungry face and bony groping hands.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And although you may not like it (I admit I wasn't particularly fond of it myself), there's also a basis for Galadriel's "Hulk out": <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Gilthalion]

Underhill has beaten me to the pertinent quotes!<P>Bilbo's transformation was not too far overdone, and worked for me. Perhaps it could have been more subtle.<P>I must agree that Galadriel's scene could have been handled more deftly. Perhaps more than a change of light and angle, but certainly less than the full-blown power trip we were treated to. I think that it was difficult to create an effect that precisely conveys what Frodo perceived. Jackson chose to overwhelm by other means.<P>I wanted more singing.<P>I wanted the Prancing Pony to be less dark and loathsome, more homey and inviting.<P>Yessss. More Gollum.<P>How much landed on the cutting room floor?<P>What will be the differences in the DIRECTOR'S CUT DVD?

[Fell Shade]

I wish they would have ommited the part where the orc asks Saruman if he'd recieved orders from Sauron yet. It didn't seem in keeping with the book.<P>I'm mystified by the need for the Saruman storm, and Gandalf not wanting to go to Moria, as opposed to the book. It just seemed like a change for the heck of it, it didn't make a more concise scene, but oh well.<P>I, for one, like the Galadriel scene, and I think her speach in the book is frightening, and wouldn't be read in a lilting voice by any actress worth her mettle. Also, in rereading the book after viewing the movie, I think the change the ring brings could be interpreted as more magical than just a change in demeanor, but that is open to interpretation.<P>And, since they put in events that happened during FotR, but were not necessarily seen in the book by the reader(the imprisonment of Gandalf), it would have been good to see Gandalf's fight with the Nazgul at Weathertop.<P>Nonetheless, I loved the movie, and Tom was a small sacrifice, IMHO, as he was essentially outside of the scope of the affairs of Middle Earth, and apart from the struggles of man, hobbit, elf, or dark lord.

[Birdland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gilthalion:<P>How much landed on the cutting room floor?<P>What will be the differences in the DIRECTOR'S CUT DVD?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You beat me to the "director's cut?" line! <P> . I've been reading all the responses with great interest, but I'm so happy with Peter Jackson's vision of the book that I can't quibble too much. Well, OK, one quibble. I really wanted to see Sam get his box from Galadriel, with the seed and the dust.<P>As for what's coming up? Especially now that the film is doing so well, I bet Mr. Jackson gets to have a field day with the DVD. Four hour director's cut, anyone? And since I've seen pictures of the departure from Lothlorien on the film's website, I'm sure all questions will be answered and all "good bits" restored.<P>Except for Bombadil. I think he's a goner.

[doug*platypus]

An excellent thread! It seems like every time I open my mouth about the Lord of the Rings movies an endless rambling of minor changes comes out.<P>Near the top of the list would be Sauron at the beginning of FOTR. "Hmmm... instead of crushing this puny Isildur boy, why don't I just reach out my hand for no reason. That way he might just have a chance to cut off my Ring and defeat me." Pfft.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The Ringwraiths moved much too slowly on Weathertop. It was one of those typical scenes where you keep saying JUMP ON THE FREAKIN HOBBIT AND TAKE IT! I just feel like that scene wasnt played out right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's what is referred to in the film business as: 'Dramatic Effect' ...I might add that I though it was cool. It built up to the moment nicely.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>SEAN BEAN SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN TO BE ARAGORN! Hes one damn fine actor!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I couldn't agree/disagree more! Although Sean is certainly an awesome actor, I think that PJ cast the absolute <B>perfect</B> Aragorn! No complaints here .<p>[ 4:22 PM December 09, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

[doug*platypus]

Mmm... griping...<P>In TTT Gollum starts merrily humming this little ditty: "Cold be hand and heart and bone..."<P>Most of us will recognise this as the incantation performed by the Barrow-Wight in one of the most terrifying passages of the book. Gollum has his foibles, sure, but I don't really think he deserves to be given that line.<P>Changes to the book = good.<BR>Changes to the book made with very little in-depth thought = bad.

[Finwe]

I'm definitely NOT complaining about Viggo's acting. I think he can kick Sean's butt any day. <P>I was so awed by Galadriel's Dark Queen phase that I was literally shaking in my seat when I saw that part in the theater. In fact, I still shiver when I see it now. She wasn't supposed to look technically "evil," just dark, majestic, awe-inspiring, and jaw-dropping. I love the way that was portrayed in the movie.

[doug*platypus]

This is the most minor of imaginable minor things. If there were ever a definition for geeky nitpick, this is IT.<P>In FOTR, we see the Uruks approaching the river, of course coming west from Isengard. Legolas, sensing that something is rotten on the western shores, looks east (his left, travelling south) out of the boat. Grr.

[The Saucepan Man]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Legolas, sensing that something is rotten on the western shores, looks east <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Fleet of foot and keen of eye he may be, but our adored Elven Prince does have lousy directional sense. After all, he thought that the Uruks with Merry and Pippin were heading north-east to Isengard. Perhaps Galadriel's gift to him ought to have been a compass.

[doug*platypus]

You know what, I never noticed that! I saw on TV recently that PJ made sure Frodo and Sam were always moving left to right in every shot while they were on their way to Mordor. It's fantastic that all his time and effort was well worth it, and that a shonky script didn't ruin the whole effect!<P>Hmm... while I'm here...<P>MINOR CHANGE #3<BR>Maybe not so minor. Aragorn shouldn't have willingly let Frodo go to Mordor on his own. The book version was (O! Surprise! Surprise!) better.

[Orominuialwen]

The one, extremely minor, change that annoyed me is having the elves use saddles when they ride horses. I can't find the exact quote at the moment, but someone said something to Gandalf about needing no saddle for Shadowfax, and Gandalf replied that he only rode in the elven manner on Shadowfax. I've probably just totally mutilated that quote -- I'm not thinking too clearly because I either have the flu or a very nassssty cold.

[The Only Real Estel]

Only a few for now:<P>*Aragorn should've 'let' Frodo go the way he did in the books, <B>not</B> by choice.<P>*It would've been nicer to hear more words & less growls out of the orcs in FotR (I think all you hear them say is "Find the halflings!"...you hear the talk in TTT & everone's like, "They talk!?"<P> I've got more, but not enough time .

[Theron Bugtussle]

I don't agree that the miscast Aragorn is minor. I hated him from the first. I have responded on a thread in the Books forum with several of my issues about Movie-gorn. See <A HREF="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=003402&p=4" TARGET=_blank>Book vs. Movie characters</A>.<P>I am no casting specialist, so previously, I could only imagine Mel Gibson in that role.<P>However, it suddenly clicked for me this weekend when I saw FotR-EE for the first time. It was in a theatre, actually. I said, They should have cast Sean Bean in the role. (Just like someone mentioned here on this thread.) He can really act. Broad shoulders on Aragorn, anyone?<P>Sean Bean--and Mel--both have good voices, too. <I>Viggo's pinched little kazoo-like voice</I> gives me nausea. We were watching TTT-EE at home the other night, and my 12-1/2 year old son pinched his nose and mocked Aragorn in one scene--it was hilarious...but so sad.<P>Well, on second thought, maybe the casting <I>is appropriate after all</I> for the movie effect they wanted to achieve. Which is, in my opinion, <B>a wimpy, indecisive Aragorn</B> who:<P>A. doesn't know if he really loves Arwen enough to ask her to become mortal on his account--<I>'Yes, dear, if you insist...'</I><P>B. and doesn't want or think himself capable of leading a people, let alone being a glorious king of the West--<I>'Ooh, don't give me those shards of that old heirloom sword, I am not worthy...and swords with names just frighten me!'</I><P>(Sorry if I just stepped on your favorite actor or portrayal. )

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> the miscast Aragorn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's the first time I've heard anyone call Viggo Mortensen a miscast...seriously, take a look at Stuart Townsend, the guy they started out with (the guy's look in costume screamed serial killer). I thought Viggo made a perfect Aragorn! He does talk through his nose a little, but it's rarely very noticeable.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> a wimpy, indecisive Aragorn who:<P>A. doesn't know if he really loves Arwen enough to ask her to become mortal on his account--'Yes, dear, if you insist...'<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's the way PJ decided to make Elrond be that's more 'to blame' here than anything. Obviously he loves her, there's no doubt about that, he showing unselfishness by letting her go rather than continue clashing with Elrond all the time (unlike the books). It's sorta like a 'I want this, you want this, but I want you to do what's best for you' type of thing.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>and doesn't want or think himself capable of leading a people, let alone being a glorious king of the West--'Ooh, don't give me those shards of that old heirloom sword, I am not worthy...and swords with names just frighten me!'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's the way he was in the books (that I remember). He was always hesitant to follow in his heir's place. Perhaps that's a bad memory, but I'm pretty sure it's on the money.<P>I thought PJ made a good decision to go for Viggo, I know that he didn't want to bring in any stud actors, so that's why he didn't go for Mel Gibson or Russel Crowe (or Leonardo Decaprio as Legolas ).<p>[ 5:11 PM December 12, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

[dragoneyes]

Now this realy is a minor change, but I really think the hobbits' feet should have been hairier. When Frodo comes down the steps to Galadriel's mirror, the feet are freakishly unhairy and the hairs are all wirey. I thought the hair was meant to be like head hair.

[Kalimac]

Ulmo - actually, in the FOTR EE there's a short night scene where you see Aragorn watching out for Gollum as he paddles his log, and he makes some short comment which makes it clear that he knows what it is.<P>Doug - I was just glad that they got "Cold be hand and heart and bone," in there, and actually didn't mind that Gollum got it. I guess this largely because it sounds rather like the beginning of a riddle, and of course he'd know a lot of those. I agree that it's a bit poetic for Gollum to make up, but as a scrappy memory from long-ago, it would work. (In fact, it never even occurred to me that the line was meant to be original dialogue for Gollum - though I'm probably biased by recognizing that it's a quote). <P>I liked the Galadriel scene a lot, though I'm biased in its favour by horrid memories of the Bakshi version of Galadriel's temptation, wherein she twirls around once, looking like Daphne from "Scooby-Doo", and chirps "I pass the test!" like she'd just gotten a B on her trig exam. Anything was an improvement over that. <P>Minor changes...hmmm. I like Mortensen as Aragorn a lot, but I wish he would enunciate just a little better. Next to all those bell-like voices from NZ and Australia, he sounds a little...off. And the hobbits should be a little fatter, at least in the beginning. For someone who eats 10 meals a day, Pippin looks remarkably undernourished. And I'd make Wormtongue get a hair-rinse - that dead black dye is a little too obvious Mark of the Beast.

[doug*platypus]

Gandalf the White's hair is too straight. And his staff is too straight, boring and wussy.<P>Ah... I'm loving this minor change wishlist. Nobody mention the casting of Aragorn again though, please. I honestly don't know how the casting of one of the three major characters could ever be considered minor. That discussion already has numerous threads devoted to it. Hijacking is a bad thing.

[The Only Real Estel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>And the hobbits should be a little fatter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It almost seemed that Frodo got fatter in TTT...Obivoulsy you can't starve Elijah Wood during production, but surely you can do a little better job .