Last names in ME

[GildorInglorion]

I think it's strange that only hobbits seem to have last names. Is that true? And is it strange? What do YOU think?

[Morima]

Men and dwarwes seem to have last names from their fathers, like Aragorn son of Arathorn, Gimli son of Gloin. But elves... Well, they're supposed to be different... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] And hobbits, do they really have last names, or is it more the place they come from?

[Arwen Imladris]

Is not Aragorn's last name Telcontar? That is the only one that I can think of.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Telcontar is not really Aragorn's given last name; he chose it himself.

Strider shall be the name of my house, if that be ever established. In the high tongue it will not sound so ill, and Telcontar I will be and all the heirs of my body.

[Legolas]

The hobbits are definitely a different folk from the rest of Middle-earth's peoples - never concerned with battles, or riches, or territory. They smoke pipeweed, eat umpteen times a day, all live together in the same vicinity, and even take kindly to most strangers, being the peaceful and hospitable folk they are. It's just another marked difference between the ways of the Shire and the ways of the world outside. Living together in the Shire might be another reason - because so many of them around, first names are probably repeated a lot, thus the need for more than one name for identification purposes.

[ November 14, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]

[Diamond18]

Is Legolas called Legolas Greenleaf or is that just a fanfic invention? I don't recall. And then in the movie Haldir calls him Legolas Thrandullian. Does that just mean Legolas son of Thranduil?

Thorin has a last name: Oakensheild. And Elrond is called Half-Elven. And then there's Túrin Turambar. But these seem to be more of nicknames than surnames...and they're also few and far between.

[Rumil]

I think the elves had two names, but usually used only one. Gil-Galad's full name was Ereinion Gil-Galad, where Ereinion was his original given name, but Gil-Galad was more of a nickname (though a dignified one!). I guess that with most elves we don't get to know their full name.

[Aiwendil]

Is Legolas called Legolas Greenleaf or is that just a fanfic invention?

Legolas actually means "Green leaf"; it's a midst of the text translation, like saying "Eru the One".

And then in the movie Haldir calls him Legolas Thrandullian.

Really? That seems kind of strange. Adding -ion is a Quenya formula for the patronymic, but "Thranduil" is a Sindarin name.

Thorin has a last name: Oakensheild. And Elrond is called Half-Elven. And then there's Túrin Turambar. But these seem to be more of nicknames than surnames...and they're also few and far between.

Yes, these are epithets rather than true surnames. The Edain, at least during the first age, seem to have adopted some Elvish naming-practices. There is an essay in HoMe X that discusses the Eldarin naming system. Basicly, each Elf receives a name chosen by his or her father and one by his or her mother - the father-name and the mother-name. For example, Feanor was called "Curufinwe" by his father and "Feanaro" by his mother. Mother-names are often names of insight or prophecy. An Elf might also acquire names given to him by others due to some attribute or some particular deed; thus, for example, Elwe is named "Sindacollo", "Grey cloak". An Elf might also give himself or herself a name for any of various reasons. There are Elvish words given for these various types of names, but I can't recall them.

I think the Edain adopted the tendency toward epithets given by others or by oneself, though they apparently did not adopt the distinction between the father-name and mother-name. Thus, Beren is given the epithet "Camlost." Of course, the longest list of names belongs to Turin: Neithan, Mormegil, Agarwaen, Adanedhel, Thurin, Turambar, and probably others that I've forgotten.

Hobbits have an altogether different system. There is, of course, some tendency toward epithet giving, but it is of a much more pedestrian sort. Gerontius is called "The Old Took", for example. Their surnames are much more like modern surnames (they are rather more modern in general than the rest of Middle-earth); they are passed down from a father to his children. There is nonetheless something archaic about them, as if they are not yet too far removed from their epithetic origins. Thus, for example, Bilbo Baggins actually lives at Bag End, Merry Brandybuck comes from Buckland, and so forth; whereas today we have no reason to suspect that, for example, someone with the last name "Littleton" actually comes from the town of Little. It seems that the names of the lower classes in the Shire are even less well established. Sam's name "Gamgee" appears only to go back a few generations.

[Legolas]

Legolas Greenleaf actually repeats itself - Legolas means 'Green-leaf.'

Elrond's 'Peredhil' is, as you said, just a title, denoting his half-elven ancestry.

Gil-galad's 'first name' can be looked at in the same way - a title, denoting ancestry. Ereinion means 'descendent of kings.'

Thorin's surname, Oakenshield, was not given at birth. It is more of a nickname, actually, which he earned at the Battle of Nanduhirion.

Bombadil's Elvish name, Iarwain Ben-adar, too, is a title - 'oldest and fatherless.' 'Tom Bombadil' was apparently given to him by Bucklanders, as Tolkien tells us in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil:

They also show that the Bucklanders knew Bombadil, (4) though, no doubt they had as little understanding of his powers as the Shirefolk had of Gandalf's...

Footnote 4, corresponding to the quote above:

4 Indeed they probably gave him this name (it is Bucklandish in form) to add to his many older ones.

In the case of Finrod Felagund, his surname, Felagund, was given to him by the dwarves (as it is Dwarvish, of course). They called him such ('hewer of caves') when Nargothrond was being carved underneath Taur-en-Faroth.

There in Nargothrond Finrod made his home with many of his people, and he was named in the tongue of the Dwarves Felagund, Hewer of Caves; and that name he bore thereafter until his end.

[Lindril Arvilya]

A lot of the Elven names are translations. So, Legolas Greenleaf- one day a man who didn't know Sindarin or Quenya (I'm not sure which, though I would if I thought about it) came along and said "Legolas. That's a cool name, what's it mean?" And there's his nickname.
I used to go by the name "Gilmir Starjewel"- same thing. Last name is the same in a different language.

[Arwen1858]

What about Arwen Undomiel? Undomiel means evenstar, does it not? Since she's called the evenstar of her people, is Undomiel more like a nickname, a name given to her when people saw her likeness to Luthien, or what?

[Selmo]

The various epithets, patronyms and descriptive names are surnames. That's the way all our surnames originated.
The difference between Hobbits and the rest is that they use family surnames.

Family names are important for inheritance. The Hobbits had a system of personal land ownership that passed from generation to generation through the family. Being able to prove one's kinship could become very important if a land-owner died without a heir.
Other peoples in Middle Earth used some sort of feudal system, where all land belonged to the Crown, or a system where land was held in common. In those circumstances, kinship names weren't so necessary.

Another reason why Hobbits needed surnames was to be able to identify themselves individually to use the postal service. They were the only society to have such a thing.

[Evisse the Blue]

I have noticed this too - and wondered for a while what it could mean. I reached the same conclusion as Legalos, that it was meant to underline the difference between the Shire and the rest of ME.
I also think it is a literary device.
Thanx to their names and surnames, the hobbits appear more 'familiar' to us, more easy to identify with, which is useful since the story basically revolves mainly around them.

[Diamond18]

I should have mentioned this (silly me) but I do know that Legolas means literally, "Greenleaf". That was the reason I wondered if Tolkien actually used that as a "surname". I couldn't recall a spot in the book, I just knew that the movie credits and people here on the Downs use both names. It seemed odd to me that Tolkien would repeat his name twice like that.

But since that post, an inspiration has struck me! *sarcasm*

Why not look in the index?

Tolkien uses it only twice.

Legolas Greenleaf long under tree
In joy thou hast lived. Beware of the Sea!
If thou hearest the cry of the gull on the shore,
Thy heart shall then rest in the forest no more.

"Stay, Legolas Greenleaf!" said Gandalf. "Do not go back into the wood, not yet! Now is not your time."

Both of these are warnings...so it strikes me like a parent using a child's full name. "Legolas Greenleaf, you listen to me and listen good!" [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Gayahithwen]

My little theory is simply that The Hobbit (that revolved mainly about Bilbo and the dwarves) was written earlier, thus Tolkien hadn't decided how to use last names yet. Bilbo Baggins appear in the beginning of the Hobbit, and when Tolkien began writing the Lord of the Rings, the 'Baggins' hung around, seeing as the Hobbit had already been published.

Bilbo Baggins actually lives at Bag End, Merry Brandybuck comes from Buckland, and so forth; whereas today we have no reason to suspect that, for example, someone with the last name "Littleton" actually comes from the town of Little.

I have a small example that "proves" the opposite. Helge Fauskanger (the maker of the Ardalambion website) actually lives in 'Lille Fauskanger' (little Fauskanger), where his ancestors settled some hundred years ago. This, of course, is an exception - though something I felt like adding. My own last name is just a -son name (Swedish for saying "son of", in the same way as the scots use "Mac" and arabs "ben"), that our family got from my great grandfather. Many last names today are taken, for example 'Smith', which was from the beginning merely a profession. I think something similar might have happened in the Shire - though these are merely my random thoughts.

[ June 10, 2003: Message edited by: Gayahithwen ]

[Diamond18]

Something interesting to note, also, is that the Men of Bree had last names: Barliman Butterbur, Bill Ferny and Mat Heathertoes. What that means I don't know.

[Legolas]

It is my estimation that Tolkien would've still used surnames for hobbits if The Hobbit had not yet been published.