LotR2-TTT-Seq12 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

alatar · 05-03-2006, 08:46 AM

Long time no see,
Short time for you and me.
So fine, so good.
We're on the road
Like you knew we would.

First night, so long,
A state of mind.
What can go wrong?
We're here, the time is right
To rock 'n' roll
Right through the night. "Gemini Dreams" by the Moody Blues

We now begin Disk #2.

We see our merry troop of Rohirrim and guests traipsing across the mountain paths on their way to that terrible fastness of Helm’s Deep. This is not a war party, but mainly the inhabitants of Edoras sprinkled lightly with some warriors. Gimli tells us some secrets about the dwarves, and we have a nice laugh about his better halves.

But don’t get too comfortable in your seat. PJ won’t take that intelligent dwarven humor lying down. Gimli takes a short ride to Dirtsville - hardy har har! If my knee were but a little higher from the ground, I would slap it. Okay, if dwarves were truly to spring from the ground then Gimli might be displaying mating behavior, like when turkeys get all fluffed up and scratch about.

Éowyn, laughing not at the falling dwarf but at his earlier statements thaws for a brief Spring from her wintry self.

Aragorn smiles, though they are going to war in that fortress voted “Worst Structure in Which to Withstand an Uruk Attack” (The Wise Daily, circa 3018), they’ve lost their wizard friend, another wizard is after them, Gimli’s axe goes flying off (luckily not hitting any of the civilians) and there ain’t much hope - and did we mention family problems? I guess as a warrior you just have to live for the moment.

Théoden confesses his sins to Aragorn while telling us why Éowyn suffers thus. The shots of her show her as an attainable beauty, not the ethereal unapproachable visage of Arwen.

At the camp we see Éowyn try to give soup to Gimli, who quickly turns down the offer. Seemingly he has some knowledge of her cooking, and it must be bad fare indeed for a cram-eating dirt-diving dwarf to turn it down. She then approaches Aragorn with the same offer, and he accepts it with more grace. She, like the children of Bob Cratchit, awaits his opinion of the gruel. He visibly has trouble swallowing the swill and hopes that somehow his elvish cloak - or better, the One Ring - would allow his to simply disappear that he might retch in peace.

“It’s good.”

Momentarily satisfied, she turns to leave and Aragorn condemns the brothy mash to the grasses. Quickly he stops as Éowyn turns to ask another question, and the stew burns his hands. Serves you right for lying to the young princess maiden! Just how will she ever learn to cook properly if everyone hides the truth from her?

And, just an aside, but why are we spending so many minutes on the swordmaiden’s lack of culinary arts?

We learn that Aragorn is no ordinary manly man, but one of those Dúnedain, blessed with long life and cast-iron stomachs. Éowyn gets some history then gets to watch another ‘yes man’ eat her intentionally bad stew. “We Rohirrim do not lie, and are not then easily deceived. And we always have the "Trial by Stew Consumption…”

Later, Aragorn enjoys some pipeweed as he considers removing his own appendix. He was just starting to like Éowyn too, but then remembers how well that elf maid could cook. He drifts off to that place we call dreams, but that seemingly are not just dreams for elves. He and Arwen kiss, and she tries to put him back to sleep, but troubles lay on the future king’s mind. He sees that they have come to the place where their paths will split apart forever. Arwen reassures him that it need not be so, and for him to trust in the Evenstar and in their love.

The movie has taken a romantic turn, and there’s more kissing. At least we know why Lord Elrond was willing to send the One Ring anywhere in Middle Earth as long as it left Rivendell.

“Gotta get that barefoot Dúnedain out of my house and away from my daughter.”

PJ shows us the differences in mortal and immortal women, and Aragorn’s choices. Isn’t it interesting though that we did not have one Arwen dream during the FotR’s travels from Rivendell to Edoras? Anyway…

When Aragorn returns from his dream we find him walking to Helm’s Deep, and the woman now at his side is the very astute Éowyn, who asks from whom he received the Evenstar (pretty cool that she knew that it wasn’t some heirloom or gift from Gilraen. We see Elrond (“Dad”) and Aragorn in flashback, discussing the fate of Aragorn’s and Arwen’s love. Elrond wants his daughter to remember the fling in the undying lands where they will be safe from the onslaught that surely will come from Mordor (thanks for thinking positive, big guy!). Aragorn states that she stays for him and for the life that they two may yet have together on these eastern shores. That and maybe she’s just tired of Daddy’s Isildur rants.

Elrond is none too happy. Any married guy see his father-in-law in this scene? Hey…they come around eventually.

We see Aragorn, member of the newly minted Fellowship of the Ring, try to slip out at the first light. Arwen catches him, and he pretty much tells her that he’s not going to call. Ever. It was a dream, a gorgeous mistake…let’s be friends, gotta go to war, I’ll call, etc.

We know, however, that Aragorn here is being very honorable. He loves Arwen, and wants her to be safe and happy and free, even if it means that he can never see her again. That’s what loves all about - putting someone else before yourself. She thinks that he’s lying, bluffing, but then he goes to return the Evenstar, but she will not take back her gift.

Great romantic scene, and I think that it takes place on the same bridge on which we saw them kiss on FotR. Are they reversed (can’t remember) where now Arwen is on the left side?

Aragorn returns again to the present, and he answers Éowyn. With Arwen sailing West, is Éowyn now a contender for Aragorn’s heart? We shall see what Spring will bring.

Elladan and Elrohir · 05-04-2006, 10:17 PM

The bearded women thing was good; the falling off the horse was, well, needless and gratuitous, but that pretty much describes a lot of PJ's Gimli.

The Aragorn/Arwen stuff is great, except for King Thingol, cough, oops, I mean Elrond, who looks like he'd rather yank out his fingernails than let his daughter hang out with "that boy."

I really love Miranda Otto's Eowyn, but does it strike anybody else that she's not the cold shieldmaiden she was in the books? She smiles, she laughs, she cries, she asks personal questions about hot Rangers' girlfriends. Sure, there's a few scenes where the coldness comes through (particularly her scene with Grima earlier in the film), but for the most part she's been microwaved from the books.

05-05-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

The Aragorn/Arwen stuff is great, except for King Thingol, cough, oops, I mean Elrond, who looks like he'd rather yank out his fingernails than let his daughter hang out with "that boy."

HE he! that;s exactly what I thought too when I saw PJ Elrond. Thingol, I don't think Manwe would be very pleased if you continue to posess Elrond's body.

I thought most of the Arwen scenes were rather unneccessary.

Lathriel · 05-05-2006, 09:36 PM

I likes the arwen scenes. here PJ takes things into his own hands without making it heavy handed and for once these added scenes are not fighting scenes.
I also like these scenes because they are really just about the characters and developing them which for me is always very important. For me a stroyline that only focuses on action just doesn't cut it. (But it does depend on which mood I'm in.)
I also love the cinematography in these scenes. For example, when Aragorn thinks of Arwen and how the camera focuses on the grasses for a moment. It makes sense because nature and romance always go close together in the majority of Literature. (read a lot of novels from the romantic time period this year for my classes)
I don't mind Gimli falling of the horse because even in the book he isn't good with horses so that is fine with me.
I don't care about the stew scene but I know one of my friends who loves it, so it works for some people.

Elladan and Elrohir · 05-10-2006, 08:29 PM

Oh, I love the stew scene. It's possibly my favorite added scene in any of the extended editions. I guess it doesn't take much to please me.

The ensuing conversation between Aragorn and Eowyn is great, watching the shock on her face as she finds out how old he really is. Here's a tidbit, a very small mistake that the filmmakers made. They almost got it right, but...

From The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp):
The Extended Edition of the movie includes a scene revealing that Aragorn is eighty-seven years old, and served with Théoden's father Thengel decades before. Though there's no directly equivalent scene in the book, Aragorn did indeed live this long (the royal line of the Dúnedain had exceptionally long lives). To be precise, the movie gets his age very slightly wrong: Aragorn was born on 1 March III 2931, so the day he met Gandalf in Fangorn Forest (1 March III 3019) was his eighty-eighth birthday. He reveals his age to Éowyn just a few days after this, so he should really have told her he was eighty-eight, not eighty-seven.

alatar · 05-11-2006, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

He reveals his age to Éowyn just a few days after this, so he should really have told her he was eighty-eight, not eighty-seven.

He just didn't want her to think him as old, and so he lied about his real age

.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 07-13-2006, 07:47 AM

The food bit is weird. Is it by any chance an attempt to say Hey! Éowyn's not like other women, who can all cook excellently; she's into, like, battles and war and stuff!

And I agree with E&E: Éowyn is practically the life of the party on the road to Helm's Deep. That's not what we want! I always pictured her as more of a discourteous teenager, who wouldn't talk to anyone unless she could moan about how much her life sucked.

Essex · 08-09-2006, 05:11 AM

thoughts on these scenes....

I think what pj is doing here is that we need to show Aragorn's love for Arwen, and his desire to see her safe. Eoywn is a distraction (as she is in the books) - but Aragorn's love for Arwen culminates in the final push that forces him down the paths of the dead - PJ gives him a real reason to take this path other than a note from Elrond advising him to go this way. If he doesn't help Frodo by fighting Sauron's forces then Arwen will die. I didn't like this linkage of Arwen to the Ring, but I can see PJ's reasoning behind it. Once Arwen gave up her immortality and decided to stay with Aragorn, then she was technically 'dying' at this point. As we all know, Life is a terminal illness........

Anyway, back to the scene - is it just me or does PJ intentionally make Theoden seem unsteady on his horse whilst Aragorn glides along, looking much more kingly than the 'real' King of Rohan. Or was it that 'gissa job' couldn't control his horse very well?

I don't tink Aragorn is dreaming in the scenes with Arwen, just thinking back to his discussions before he left Rivendell. Doesn't Arwen look alien / ethereal in the kisssing scenes with Aragorn? She really looks 'other worldly' in the first flashback scene - and looks totally different in the later scene as she stops aragorn given back the Evenstar.......

did you notice the look on eoywn's face as she learns aragorn's missus is leaving middle-earth? a look of satisfaction for a fraction of a second before the shieldmaiden hides her thoughts from aragorn and looks away.....

I also love the scene with the stew - i don't know why, but I do. I like the fact that it gives pj the chance to explain Aragorn's long life and that he's a Dúnedain.....

the gimli scene (and the stew scene) shows that the scriptwriters haven't just read LOTR but have dipped into the appendicies and other material......

05-03-2006, 08:46 AM	#1
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,481	LotR2-TTT-Seq12 Long time no see, Short time for you and me. So fine, so good. We're on the road Like you knew we would. First night, so long, A state of mind. What can go wrong? We're here, the time is right To rock 'n' roll Right through the night. "Gemini Dreams" by the Moody Blues We now begin Disk #2. We see our merry troop of Rohirrim and guests traipsing across the mountain paths on their way to that terrible fastness of Helm’s Deep. This is not a war party, but mainly the inhabitants of Edoras sprinkled lightly with some warriors. Gimli tells us some secrets about the dwarves, and we have a nice laugh about his better halves. But don’t get too comfortable in your seat. PJ won’t take that intelligent dwarven humor lying down. Gimli takes a short ride to Dirtsville - hardy har har! If my knee were but a little higher from the ground, I would slap it. Okay, if dwarves were truly to spring from the ground then Gimli might be displaying mating behavior, like when turkeys get all fluffed up and scratch about. Éowyn, laughing not at the falling dwarf but at his earlier statements thaws for a brief Spring from her wintry self. Aragorn smiles, though they are going to war in that fortress voted “Worst Structure in Which to Withstand an Uruk Attack” (The Wise Daily, circa 3018), they’ve lost their wizard friend, another wizard is after them, Gimli’s axe goes flying off (luckily not hitting any of the civilians) and there ain’t much hope - and did we mention family problems? I guess as a warrior you just have to live for the moment. Théoden confesses his sins to Aragorn while telling us why Éowyn suffers thus. The shots of her show her as an attainable beauty, not the ethereal unapproachable visage of Arwen. At the camp we see Éowyn try to give soup to Gimli, who quickly turns down the offer. Seemingly he has some knowledge of her cooking, and it must be bad fare indeed for a cram-eating dirt-diving dwarf to turn it down. She then approaches Aragorn with the same offer, and he accepts it with more grace. She, like the children of Bob Cratchit, awaits his opinion of the gruel. He visibly has trouble swallowing the swill and hopes that somehow his elvish cloak - or better, the One Ring - would allow his to simply disappear that he might retch in peace. “It’s good.” Momentarily satisfied, she turns to leave and Aragorn condemns the brothy mash to the grasses. Quickly he stops as Éowyn turns to ask another question, and the stew burns his hands. Serves you right for lying to the young princess maiden! Just how will she ever learn to cook properly if everyone hides the truth from her? And, just an aside, but why are we spending so many minutes on the swordmaiden’s lack of culinary arts? We learn that Aragorn is no ordinary manly man, but one of those Dúnedain, blessed with long life and cast-iron stomachs. Éowyn gets some history then gets to watch another ‘yes man’ eat her intentionally bad stew. “We Rohirrim do not lie, and are not then easily deceived. And we always have the "Trial by Stew Consumption…” Later, Aragorn enjoys some pipeweed as he considers removing his own appendix. He was just starting to like Éowyn too, but then remembers how well that elf maid could cook. He drifts off to that place we call dreams, but that seemingly are not just dreams for elves. He and Arwen kiss, and she tries to put him back to sleep, but troubles lay on the future king’s mind. He sees that they have come to the place where their paths will split apart forever. Arwen reassures him that it need not be so, and for him to trust in the Evenstar and in their love. The movie has taken a romantic turn, and there’s more kissing. At least we know why Lord Elrond was willing to send the One Ring anywhere in Middle Earth as long as it left Rivendell. “Gotta get that barefoot Dúnedain out of my house and away from my daughter.” PJ shows us the differences in mortal and immortal women, and Aragorn’s choices. Isn’t it interesting though that we did not have one Arwen dream during the FotR’s travels from Rivendell to Edoras? Anyway… When Aragorn returns from his dream we find him walking to Helm’s Deep, and the woman now at his side is the very astute Éowyn, who asks from whom he received the Evenstar (pretty cool that she knew that it wasn’t some heirloom or gift from Gilraen. We see Elrond (“Dad”) and Aragorn in flashback, discussing the fate of Aragorn’s and Arwen’s love. Elrond wants his daughter to remember the fling in the undying lands where they will be safe from the onslaught that surely will come from Mordor (thanks for thinking positive, big guy!). Aragorn states that she stays for him and for the life that they two may yet have together on these eastern shores. That and maybe she’s just tired of Daddy’s Isildur rants. Elrond is none too happy. Any married guy see his father-in-law in this scene? Hey…they come around eventually. We see Aragorn, member of the newly minted Fellowship of the Ring, try to slip out at the first light. Arwen catches him, and he pretty much tells her that he’s not going to call. Ever. It was a dream, a gorgeous mistake…let’s be friends, gotta go to war, I’ll call, etc. We know, however, that Aragorn here is being very honorable. He loves Arwen, and wants her to be safe and happy and free, even if it means that he can never see her again. That’s what loves all about - putting someone else before yourself. She thinks that he’s lying, bluffing, but then he goes to return the Evenstar, but she will not take back her gift. Great romantic scene, and I think that it takes place on the same bridge on which we saw them kiss on FotR. Are they reversed (can’t remember) where now Arwen is on the left side? Aragorn returns again to the present, and he answers Éowyn. With Arwen sailing West, is Éowyn now a contender for Aragorn’s heart? We shall see what Spring will bring. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

05-05-2006, 09:36 PM	#4
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	I likes the arwen scenes. here PJ takes things into his own hands without making it heavy handed and for once these added scenes are not fighting scenes. I also like these scenes because they are really just about the characters and developing them which for me is always very important. For me a stroyline that only focuses on action just doesn't cut it. (But it does depend on which mood I'm in.) I also love the cinematography in these scenes. For example, when Aragorn thinks of Arwen and how the camera focuses on the grasses for a moment. It makes sense because nature and romance always go close together in the majority of Literature. (read a lot of novels from the romantic time period this year for my classes) I don't mind Gimli falling of the horse because even in the book he isn't good with horses so that is fine with me. I don't care about the stew scene but I know one of my friends who loves it, so it works for some people. __________________ Back again

05-10-2006, 08:29 PM	#5
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Oh, I love the stew scene. It's possibly my favorite added scene in any of the extended editions. I guess it doesn't take much to please me. The ensuing conversation between Aragorn and Eowyn is great, watching the shock on her face as she finds out how old he really is. Here's a tidbit, a very small mistake that the filmmakers made. They almost got it right, but... From The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.asp): The Extended Edition of the movie includes a scene revealing that Aragorn is eighty-seven years old, and served with Théoden's father Thengel decades before. Though there's no directly equivalent scene in the book, Aragorn did indeed live this long (the royal line of the Dúnedain had exceptionally long lives). To be precise, the movie gets his age very slightly wrong: Aragorn was born on 1 March III 2931, so the day he met Gandalf in Fangorn Forest (1 March III 3019) was his eighty-eighth birthday. He reveals his age to Éowyn just a few days after this, so he should really have told her he was eighty-eight, not eighty-seven. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

07-13-2006, 07:47 AM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,916	The food bit is weird. Is it by any chance an attempt to say Hey! Éowyn's not like other women, who can all cook excellently; she's into, like, battles and war and stuff! And I agree with E&E: Éowyn is practically the life of the party on the road to Helm's Deep. That's not what we want! I always pictured her as more of a discourteous teenager, who wouldn't talk to anyone unless she could moan about how much her life sucked. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

05-04-2006, 10:17 PM	#2
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	The bearded women thing was good; the falling off the horse was, well, needless and gratuitous, but that pretty much describes a lot of PJ's Gimli. The Aragorn/Arwen stuff is great, except for King Thingol, cough, oops, I mean Elrond, who looks like he'd rather yank out his fingernails than let his daughter hang out with "that boy." I really love Miranda Otto's Eowyn, but does it strike anybody else that she's not the cold shieldmaiden she was in the books? She smiles, she laughs, she cries, she asks personal questions about hot Rangers' girlfriends. Sure, there's a few scenes where the coldness comes through (particularly her scene with Grima earlier in the film), but for the most part she's been microwaved from the books. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

08-09-2006, 05:11 AM	#8
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 887	thoughts on these scenes.... I think what pj is doing here is that we need to show Aragorn's love for Arwen, and his desire to see her safe. Eoywn is a distraction (as she is in the books) - but Aragorn's love for Arwen culminates in the final push that forces him down the paths of the dead - PJ gives him a real reason to take this path other than a note from Elrond advising him to go this way. If he doesn't help Frodo by fighting Sauron's forces then Arwen will die. I didn't like this linkage of Arwen to the Ring, but I can see PJ's reasoning behind it. Once Arwen gave up her immortality and decided to stay with Aragorn, then she was technically 'dying' at this point. As we all know, Life is a terminal illness........ Anyway, back to the scene - is it just me or does PJ intentionally make Theoden seem unsteady on his horse whilst Aragorn glides along, looking much more kingly than the 'real' King of Rohan. Or was it that 'gissa job' couldn't control his horse very well? I don't tink Aragorn is dreaming in the scenes with Arwen, just thinking back to his discussions before he left Rivendell. Doesn't Arwen look alien / ethereal in the kisssing scenes with Aragorn? She really looks 'other worldly' in the first flashback scene - and looks totally different in the later scene as she stops aragorn given back the Evenstar....... did you notice the look on eoywn's face as she learns aragorn's missus is leaving middle-earth? a look of satisfaction for a fraction of a second before the shieldmaiden hides her thoughts from aragorn and looks away..... I also love the scene with the stew - i don't know why, but I do. I like the fact that it gives pj the chance to explain Aragorn's long life and that he's a Dúnedain..... the gimli scene (and the stew scene) shows that the scriptwriters haven't just read LOTR but have dipped into the appendicies and other material......