Old Tom bombadil is a...?!?! - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morsul the Dark · 08-16-2005, 11:06 AM

Reading an old thread there is a thread

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=11453

Quote:

The Umli are completely an invention by Iron Crown Enterprises.

But perhaps with a little stretch of the imagination you could interpret this passage in The Return of the King as to refer to some kind of ‘half-dwarves’:

Quote:

Quote:
The new host that we had tidings of has come first, from over the River by way of Andros, it is said. They are strong: battalions of Orcs of the Eye, and countless companies of Men of a new sort that we have not met before. Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come, we deem.

Maerbenn said this it is quoted from ROTK

offhand it does sound like Bombadil, they do say these fighters were grim but it was war afterall so is it possible that when not in battle IE bombadil they are overly happy could bombadil be one of these guys who migrated to the west?

Sorry for double posting

HerenIstarion · 08-17-2005, 08:30 AM

Tom trades in arms. That's why he's hidden in some obscure forest, guerilla (or was it gorilla? duh, whatever) fighters visit him in secret to purchase odd rocket or two.

It's all in the name, see - Bombadil-Bombadillo-Bomb'a'dealer

**The Saucepan Man** · 08-17-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerenIstarion

That's why he's hidden in some obscure forest, guerilla (or was it gorilla? duh, whatever) fighters visit him in secret to purchase odd rocket or two.

I'm with HI on this one. Have none of you seen the documentary film about him?

... Bombadilla's in the Mist.

*groan*

10-04-2005, 02:13 PM

Its obvious. Tom Bombadil is simply an elemental force of nature. Perhaps, even, the spirit of the earth itself. It is quite possable that he is the closest to Eru, and thus seems to be less tempted by the prospect of power. That's all there is to it.

Bergil · 10-11-2005, 06:59 PM

no, tom's obviously "Doc" Emmet Brown who, being (for all we know) a tolkien fan, got fed up with Balrog-wing, Legolas-hair, and what-is Bombadil debating and went back to middle-earth. he overshot middle-earth the first time, and ended up "before the dark lord came in from beond" (forget exact quote) he then moved forward in time and crashed into a tree that existed at the time. since "this sucker is neuclear" that tree became Old Man Willow. Behold the evidence!
- Doc was always slightly silly.
-He would the hobbits were coming and what to do because he had read the book.

-Goldberry is Clara.
-he talks a lot. The wights and willow did what he said to shut him up.

airtight case, I think!

Eowyn Skywalker · 10-13-2005, 02:49 AM

(dies laughing) This thread is the best thread I've ever seen. Honestly...

And now, on topic, I should think it would be obvious. Though the arguements indicating that Bombadil is Sauron or Morgoth or the Witchking were very convincing, I will remain steadfast in my belief. Tom Bombadil is actually Obi-Wan Kenobi.

It should be completely obvious. After A New Hope, old Ben vanishes, leaving nothing behind of his physical self. Obviously meaning a transmutation into Middle-earth and the place of Tom. Underneath that beard is actually a Jedi Knight.

As Obi-Wan was previously forbidden to marry, of course, the moment he seen Goldberry he would've known he had to have her. After all, he was free from the Code, and he could marry someone then. All those years on Tatooine had played around with his brain, leading to semi-insanity, and the desire to talk in riduclous poems, leaving him with no memory of his former self beyond a desire to manipulate things.

Observe, the proof is in the scene with the Barrow-wight. Tom uses mindpowers to tell the wight to leave Frodo alone. It's clear that he was unconsciously activating the Jedi Mindtrick. As well, when speaking with Old Man Willow, he does the same thing, using the Force to convince the Force-sensitive tree (which it clearly is, as is proved in a Star Wars book that a tree can be able to do this) to let the hobbits go.

And I believe that he also in a manner gets the hobbits to recover, activating healing powers. In A New Hope, Ben Kenobi wakes Luke up after the attack by the Tusken Raiders. And in Revenge of the Sith he does similar with Padmé.

Owing to the similarity in actions, and the fact that Elrond does not wish Tom to have the Ring (clearly because the fact that the ring possesses all of Sauron's will and domination over all other life would be too much like tempting him with the darkside, and could drive him over the brink to becoming a Sith), Tom Bombadil and Obi-Wan Kenobi are the same people. Both crazy (near) hermits with a thing for manipulating and mindtricking things, clearly they are the same person.

I rest my case, and will consider coming up with better evidance when I'm not falling asleep on my keyboard.

alatar · 02-21-2006, 01:13 PM

Not sure if this is the exact thread on which to pose my question, but as my search pointed me here (and, crazily, to my own post which I'd forgotten), I'll ask any as it may provide a clue to Tom's identity. After Tom saves the Hobbits from the clutches of the Wights, he re-enters the barrow and brings out a small horde of treasure. The hobbits are given the small knives that serve as their swords, and of course Merry's blade will be used later against the leg of the Witch-King. The remainder, except for one item, is left on the hilltop for all birds, beasts and passersby to take in order to further disperse the power of the barrow.

Tom selects a necklace for Goldberry. He seems to know a little of its history, but I've never been able to track it down. Anyone know the necklace's lineage, and does this indicate something about Tom, as he obviously knows who wore it first?

Note to Eowyn Skywalker: You have it backwards. If Tom = Obi-Wan, then obviously, with all of that singing and capering, Goldberry would have booted him off of the planet, and so he would have spent his post-marriage days 'bacheloring' it on Tattoine. With Sand People, no less.

Estelyn Telcontar · 02-21-2006, 01:22 PM

alatar, it is a brooch that Tom chooses. There has been some past speculation about it here: Bombadil's brooch

the guy who be short · 02-17-2007, 03:48 PM

I have just realized that Bombadil is phonetically identical to Bombur-dil.

Bombur was one of Bilbo's companions, and -dil is Quenya for friend. So Bombadil is a friend of Bombur.

I would pass this off as mere chance, if there were not further evidence to support it.

Iarwain Ben-adar is Bombadil's Sindarin name. Iar, more commonly spel Yaar in the Latin alphabet, is a Hindi word meaning "Friend". Wain is pronounced like English wine; the suffix -wine is Saxon, I believe, for friend!

As for Ben-adar, I suspect this is merely a Sindarizing of Bombur. The structure of the words is more or less identical - B-vowel-nasal-voiced stop-vowel-r. The shifting of the vowels accounts for the fact that Sindarin and Westron vowels are pronounced differently, Sindarin having nothing closer to the schwa u than an a, for example. The change of the second b in Bombur to a D in Ben-adar could be an attempt to prevent the same phoneme occuring twice in a word, common in Eldarin languages. The change of the m to an n follows logically, the cluster md being impossible.

So we have it. Twice, Bombadil reveals himself to be Bombur's friend.

The Dwarves call him Forn. This is merely a scrambling of friend, with a vowel shift. This seems to imply that Bombadil earned the title "Dwarf-friend," something like an Elf-friend, for his close friendship with Bombur.

Bombadil's beard, brown skin and shortness are all explained in this context. Bombadil, it would seem, was a dwarf-maia hybrid, inheriting many features of both races. When this trans-species joining occured, strange things happened, probably due to them having the wrong number of chromosomes or something. Like a mule, Bombadil was left impotent, hence the lack of children despite his relationship with Goldberry. This genetic muddling would also account for the fact that he is stark raving mad.

Now, this revelation could also explain Bombadil's mysterious statement that he is "Eldest." It would seem that some Maia, infatuated with the dwarves, copulated with one of them when they were first set on Earth, before the Elves and Men came to Middle-Earth, and before Eru reprimanded Aule. This was most likely at Aule's bidding; him being impatient to see the children (and their children). Thus he is Eldest.

The reasons for his specially close friendship with Bombur may only be speculated at. I would, however, suggest that this friendship was responsible for Bombur's size. Being a frequent guest at the home of somebody with an appetite that was half descended from the gods can do that to you.

08-17-2005, 08:30 AM	#42
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	nope, you are all wrong Tom trades in arms. That's why he's hidden in some obscure forest, guerilla (or was it gorilla? duh, whatever) fighters visit him in secret to purchase odd rocket or two. It's all in the name, see - Bombadil-Bombadillo-Bomb'a'dealer __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

10-11-2005, 06:59 PM	#45
Bergil Wight Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the Lepetomaine Gambling Casino For The Insane Posts: 157	Great scott! no, tom's obviously "Doc" Emmet Brown who, being (for all we know) a tolkien fan, got fed up with Balrog-wing, Legolas-hair, and what-is Bombadil debating and went back to middle-earth. he overshot middle-earth the first time, and ended up "before the dark lord came in from beond" (forget exact quote) he then moved forward in time and crashed into a tree that existed at the time. since "this sucker is neuclear" that tree became Old Man Willow. Behold the evidence! - Doc was always slightly silly. -He would the hobbits were coming and what to do because he had read the book. -Goldberry is Clara. -he talks a lot. The wights and willow did what he said to shut him up. airtight case, I think! __________________ I support...something. Last edited by Bergil; 10-13-2005 at 01:59 PM. Reason: the computer thought 2 lines were 1

10-13-2005, 02:49 AM	#46
Eowyn Skywalker Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somewhere far, far away. Eh. Posts: 402	(dies laughing) This thread is the best thread I've ever seen. Honestly... And now, on topic, I should think it would be obvious. Though the arguements indicating that Bombadil is Sauron or Morgoth or the Witchking were very convincing, I will remain steadfast in my belief. Tom Bombadil is actually Obi-Wan Kenobi. It should be completely obvious. After A New Hope, old Ben vanishes, leaving nothing behind of his physical self. Obviously meaning a transmutation into Middle-earth and the place of Tom. Underneath that beard is actually a Jedi Knight. As Obi-Wan was previously forbidden to marry, of course, the moment he seen Goldberry he would've known he had to have her. After all, he was free from the Code, and he could marry someone then. All those years on Tatooine had played around with his brain, leading to semi-insanity, and the desire to talk in riduclous poems, leaving him with no memory of his former self beyond a desire to manipulate things. Observe, the proof is in the scene with the Barrow-wight. Tom uses mindpowers to tell the wight to leave Frodo alone. It's clear that he was unconsciously activating the Jedi Mindtrick. As well, when speaking with Old Man Willow, he does the same thing, using the Force to convince the Force-sensitive tree (which it clearly is, as is proved in a Star Wars book that a tree can be able to do this) to let the hobbits go. And I believe that he also in a manner gets the hobbits to recover, activating healing powers. In A New Hope, Ben Kenobi wakes Luke up after the attack by the Tusken Raiders. And in Revenge of the Sith he does similar with Padmé. Owing to the similarity in actions, and the fact that Elrond does not wish Tom to have the Ring (clearly because the fact that the ring possesses all of Sauron's will and domination over all other life would be too much like tempting him with the darkside, and could drive him over the brink to becoming a Sith), Tom Bombadil and Obi-Wan Kenobi are the same people. Both crazy (near) hermits with a thing for manipulating and mindtricking things, clearly they are the same person. I rest my case, and will consider coming up with better evidance when I'm not falling asleep on my keyboard. __________________ Sometimes worlds collide. This time, they got their own webpage. Join Middle-earth: Insanity forums today.

02-21-2006, 01:13 PM	#47
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Not sure if this is the exact thread on which to pose my question, but as my search pointed me here (and, crazily, to my own post which I'd forgotten), I'll ask any as it may provide a clue to Tom's identity. After Tom saves the Hobbits from the clutches of the Wights, he re-enters the barrow and brings out a small horde of treasure. The hobbits are given the small knives that serve as their swords, and of course Merry's blade will be used later against the leg of the Witch-King. The remainder, except for one item, is left on the hilltop for all birds, beasts and passersby to take in order to further disperse the power of the barrow. Tom selects a necklace for Goldberry. He seems to know a little of its history, but I've never been able to track it down. Anyone know the necklace's lineage, and does this indicate something about Tom, as he obviously knows who wore it first? Note to Eowyn Skywalker: You have it backwards. If Tom = Obi-Wan, then obviously, with all of that singing and capering, Goldberry would have booted him off of the planet, and so he would have spent his post-marriage days 'bacheloring' it on Tattoine. With Sand People, no less. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

02-21-2006, 01:22 PM	#48
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,499	alatar, it is a brooch that Tom chooses. There has been some past speculation about it here: Bombadil's brooch __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

10-04-2005, 02:13 PM	#44
Maiar Master Guest Posts: n/a	Its obvious. Tom Bombadil is simply an elemental force of nature. Perhaps, even, the spirit of the earth itself. It is quite possable that he is the closest to Eru, and thus seems to be less tempted by the prospect of power. That's all there is to it.

02-17-2007, 03:48 PM	#49
the guy who be short Shadowed Prince Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Thulcandra Posts: 2,343	Half Dwarf! I have just realized that Bombadil is phonetically identical to Bombur-dil. Bombur was one of Bilbo's companions, and -dil is Quenya for friend. So Bombadil is a friend of Bombur. I would pass this off as mere chance, if there were not further evidence to support it. Iarwain Ben-adar is Bombadil's Sindarin name. Iar, more commonly spel Yaar in the Latin alphabet, is a Hindi word meaning "Friend". Wain is pronounced like English wine; the suffix -wine is Saxon, I believe, for friend! As for Ben-adar, I suspect this is merely a Sindarizing of Bombur. The structure of the words is more or less identical - B-vowel-nasal-voiced stop-vowel-r. The shifting of the vowels accounts for the fact that Sindarin and Westron vowels are pronounced differently, Sindarin having nothing closer to the schwa u than an a, for example. The change of the second b in Bombur to a D in Ben-adar could be an attempt to prevent the same phoneme occuring twice in a word, common in Eldarin languages. The change of the m to an n follows logically, the cluster md being impossible. So we have it. Twice, Bombadil reveals himself to be Bombur's friend. The Dwarves call him Forn. This is merely a scrambling of friend, with a vowel shift. This seems to imply that Bombadil earned the title "Dwarf-friend," something like an Elf-friend, for his close friendship with Bombur. Bombadil's beard, brown skin and shortness are all explained in this context. Bombadil, it would seem, was a dwarf-maia hybrid, inheriting many features of both races. When this trans-species joining occured, strange things happened, probably due to them having the wrong number of chromosomes or something. Like a mule, Bombadil was left impotent, hence the lack of children despite his relationship with Goldberry. This genetic muddling would also account for the fact that he is stark raving mad. Now, this revelation could also explain Bombadil's mysterious statement that he is "Eldest." It would seem that some Maia, infatuated with the dwarves, copulated with one of them when they were first set on Earth, before the Elves and Men came to Middle-Earth, and before Eru reprimanded Aule. This was most likely at Aule's bidding; him being impatient to see the children (and their children). Thus he is Eldest. The reasons for his specially close friendship with Bombur may only be speculated at. I would, however, suggest that this friendship was responsible for Bombur's size. Being a frequent guest at the home of somebody with an appetite that was half descended from the gods can do that to you.