Spiders - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thorongil · 12-17-2003, 05:18 AM

There is just something i was wondering about. Shelob and Ungoliant(correct me if this is wrong) are both giant spiders. Are they somehow related?

pandora · 12-17-2003, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Shelob and Ungoliant(correct me if this is wrong) are both giant spiders. Are they somehow related?

"Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world" - JRRT, The Two Towers

Thorongil · 12-17-2003, 04:38 PM

Thanks! I never noticed that. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar · 12-17-2003, 06:16 PM

I am not sure if the word child is meant to be taken literally. It might simply mean 'decendant', not immediate child.

I have a feeling this discussion will turn far away from its original course because of my post. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Shenaran · 12-17-2003, 08:59 PM

Yes and I will do it....who here hates or is afraid of spiders?

I hate spiders...yuk.

Thorongil · 12-18-2003, 02:07 AM

I was just curious about it. It's hard to get all the details the first few times you read the book. But, I'll keep reading!

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:03 AM December 18, 2003: Message edited by: Thorongil ]

Iargwath · 12-18-2003, 02:49 AM

Another way you could phrase it is by saying Shelob was one of the spawn* of Ungoliant...I have seen Shelob refered to in this manner multiple times.

*Spawn:- 2. progeny or offspring, especially if numerous.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:08 AM December 18, 2003: Message edited by: Iargwath ]

Thorongil · 12-18-2003, 02:58 AM

I saw in the silmarillion it sad that Ungoliant mated with other spiders.

Lhunardawen · 12-19-2003, 01:46 AM

Of course she had to, in order to keep her race alive. And Shelob was said to be the last of her race. How she was able to reach Cirith Ungol when Ungoliant came from Nan Dungortheb in Beleriand, I do not know.

Sorry for straying from the topic with my last statement.

Thorongil · 12-19-2003, 02:03 AM

I don't care if people strays. When people stray, I learn new things, so that's a god thing. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Meoshi · 12-19-2003, 05:57 PM

Ungoliant traveled to the distant south in her last days, so it's not unlikely that she would lay an egg somewhere in the vicinity of Mordor.

Rumil · 12-23-2003, 08:19 PM

Don't forget the spiders of Mirkwood too. Its a nasty habit of spiders that they tend to eat their husbands, create hundreds of offspring and have far too many legs for their own good.

I'd imagine that the Mirkwood spiders were somehow related to Ungoliant as they could understand speech, which surely implies some Maiar or whatever input. I expect Shelob had simply eaten any competitors in her area, whereas in the dense forests of Mirkwood it would be difficult for this to happen.

Olorin_TLA · 12-24-2003, 10:07 AM

The ones in Mirkwood are Shelob's kids (and presumably grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc) in LotR! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

12-17-2003, 05:18 AM	#1
Thorongil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The Elvenpath Posts: 788	Spiders There is just something i was wondering about. Shelob and Ungoliant(correct me if this is wrong) are both giant spiders. Are they somehow related? __________________ To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. ~Sun Tzu

12-17-2003, 04:38 PM	#3
Thorongil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The Elvenpath Posts: 788	Thanks! I never noticed that. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. ~Sun Tzu

12-17-2003, 06:16 PM	#4
Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar Wight Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Somewhere, wandering in middle earth... Posts: 137	I am not sure if the word child is meant to be taken literally. It might simply mean 'decendant', not immediate child. I have a feeling this discussion will turn far away from its original course because of my post. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Turin Turambar, Master of Fate, by Fate Mastered. No, im not turin. Or tuor. Or anyone. I am not!

12-17-2003, 08:59 PM	#5
Shenaran Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: In Valinor, having fun and being merry...... Posts: 16	Yes and I will do it....who here hates or is afraid of spiders? I hate spiders...yuk. __________________ "Ú i vethed... nâ i onnad." (This is not the end... it is the beginning.) My Forum: http://pub188.ezboard.com/blordoftherings55640

12-18-2003, 02:07 AM	#6
Thorongil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The Elvenpath Posts: 788	I was just curious about it. It's hard to get all the details the first few times you read the book. But, I'll keep reading! <font size=1 color=339966>[ 4:03 AM December 18, 2003: Message edited by: Thorongil ] __________________ To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. ~Sun Tzu

12-18-2003, 02:49 AM	#7
Iargwath Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 237	Another way you could phrase it is by saying Shelob was one of the spawn* of Ungoliant...I have seen Shelob refered to in this manner multiple times. *Spawn:- 2. progeny or offspring, especially if numerous. <font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:08 AM December 18, 2003: Message edited by: Iargwath ] __________________ 'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40 My M-e Forum

12-18-2003, 02:58 AM	#8
Thorongil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The Elvenpath Posts: 788	I saw in the silmarillion it sad that Ungoliant mated with other spiders. __________________ To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. ~Sun Tzu

12-19-2003, 01:46 AM	#9
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,724	Of course she had to, in order to keep her race alive. And Shelob was said to be the last of her race. How she was able to reach Cirith Ungol when Ungoliant came from Nan Dungortheb in Beleriand, I do not know. Sorry for straying from the topic with my last statement.

12-19-2003, 02:03 AM	#10
Thorongil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The Elvenpath Posts: 788	I don't care if people strays. When people stray, I learn new things, so that's a god thing. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill. ~Sun Tzu

12-19-2003, 05:57 PM	#11
Meoshi Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Atop the peak of Kalormë Posts: 163	Ungoliant traveled to the distant south in her last days, so it's not unlikely that she would lay an egg somewhere in the vicinity of Mordor.

12-23-2003, 08:19 PM	#12
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	Don't forget the spiders of Mirkwood too. Its a nasty habit of spiders that they tend to eat their husbands, create hundreds of offspring and have far too many legs for their own good. I'd imagine that the Mirkwood spiders were somehow related to Ungoliant as they could understand speech, which surely implies some Maiar or whatever input. I expect Shelob had simply eaten any competitors in her area, whereas in the dense forests of Mirkwood it would be difficult for this to happen. __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

12-24-2003, 10:07 AM	#13
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	The ones in Mirkwood are Shelob's kids (and presumably grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc) in LotR! [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"