Glitches in the first film

[Airetauriel]

OK, I fully accept that I have seen this film far too many times to notice what I do, but I'm a very picky type of person. Has anyone noticed the small mistakes other than the travesty that is Arwen replacing Glorfindel coming to Frodo's rescue?<P>For instance, in the film, there are only eight nazgul at the Ford of Bruinen. Eight. Count them!<P>When Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin walk into Bree, the people they see have tiny heads and long bodies - much as if they have been strteched by computer - or as if they are one person kneeling on the shoulders of the other.<P>Just after the Ring starts off from Rivendell, when Merry and Pippin are practising Swordplay with Boromir, there is a very obvious longshot in which the tall actor playing Merry is replaced with a short actor dressed the same to give the illusion of a hobbit fighting a man. <P>On two occasions Sam lapses back into his American accent! Firstly, when Arwen rides of with Frodo and he shouts to Aragorn 'What are you doing? Those wraiths are still out there!' and the second at rivendell when he is talking alone with Frodo and says 'We did what Gandalf wanted, didn't we? We got the ring this far'<P>After being attacked by Boromir on Amon Hen, Frodo is found beneath the seat by Aragorn. He then holds out the ring to Aragorn and asks 'Would you destroy it?' and the ring whispers to him 'Aragorn...' But the whole point of the Two Towers is that Sauron doesn't know of Aragorn's existence or lineage, and when he is revealed to him in the palantir, Sauron strikes with the battle of pelennor fields. That surely cannot be left out of the second and third films!<P>A dead Boromir blinks when Aragorn kisses his forehead, but Sean Bean can perhaps be forgiven for that as Viggo Mortenson's hair flops in his eyes. <P><BR>I have watched it far too many times! (And Don't get me wrong, please, I love it!) Just a long wait now till the Two Towers, but Treebeard and the battle of Helm's Deep will be worth waiting for, I hope! Are there any other infitely picky glitches anyone has noticed?<P>Airetauriel

[Glenethor]

Never noticed Boromir blinking (and I've looked), but I did notice a Uruk-Hai lift up his head as Aragorn was running toward Boromir;<P>The Black Rider just seems to appear from behind the tree in that scene after they all take 'a shortcut to mushrooms;' It doesn't appear to the right of the tree, just comes by on the left;<P>I think those people in Bree are on stilts of some kind. Yes, I noticed that.<P>Still haven't seen the car that is supposed to be there in the 'If I take one more step' scene; I've looked repeatedly for that one. Nope.<P>Where does Gandalf get his new staff? Do they just 'grow on trees?'<P>I had always envisioned Gandalf being pulled down by the Balrog's whip; however, this doesn't appear to be the case, as the whip doesn't appear to still be around his legs when he falls.<P>There's supposed to be labels on the apples that are thrown at Merry and Pip in the 'What about second breakfast?' scene, but I couldn't see them.<P>When Lurtz pulls Aragorn's knife out of his leg, it seems obvious that he is pulling it out of some foam or other material that has nothing to do with orc-flesh. <P>I did think it really cool when Aragorn bats the knife out of the air when Lurtz throws it at him, though...

[Airetauriel]

What about only eight riders at the ford? You would have thought that they could have got that one right - and I now have a still photo that proves this is the case - no more counting the horse's legs! <P>Airetauriel

[Glenethor]

That can't be in all scenes, surely? There are a lot of scenes that makes up 'Flight' so possibly there are only 8 in some of the scenes. The other probably had to have a smoke or loo break...I'll count next time I go. Which could be this afternoon, but I have a sore back.

[Balefalathiel]

And when the orchs tortured Gollum, Gollum screamed: ''Frodo,Baggins,Shire'' but how could Gollum know that Frodo had the ring?? (I hope you know what I mean... )

I don't think the ring calling Aragorn is a mistake. It was the temptation of the ring calling him, not Sauron himself.

[Glenethor]

I didn't hear that when Smeagol was on the rack. Actually, he says 'Shire! Baggins!?' in that order. He doesn't say 'Frodo.' And the Ring...if it'll give Sam the delusion of being the Great Gardener, what would it do to Aragorn? The one mortal who would have any valid claim to the Ring. Surely, the temptation for him would've been greatest, eh?

[Aralaithiel]

I am definitely gonna go watch the movie again (I won't mention how many times this would be) and see if I see anything.<BR>And, I did see the car! My brother pointed it out to me!

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I have noticed a few of those - though they don't really bother me. One, though, that hasn't been mentioned is this...<BR>After Frodo leaves Rivendell the ring is on a chain, right? The ring is on a chain when they leave Lothorien & ... when Frodo runs from Boromir (after being attacked, sort of) he is found by Aragorn & the ring is not on the chain, he just holds it in his hand. WHen Frodo is at the river ready to cross the ring is on the chain again. Am I wrong?<BR>I heard that when they are on the river you can catch a glimpse of Gollum along the cliffs - but I am yet to see that.

[Raefindel]

Did anyone notice Arwens eyes? They are blue throughout the movie, EXCEPT in the scene in the room where the shards of Narsil are kept. There they are brown!

I noticed most of these, and also, when Frodo first wakes up in Rivendell, Sam arrives and he sits up. His shirt is practically falling off of his shoulder, then we see a second's snap of Gandalf, then we see Frodo again and his shirt is all buttoned up again.<BR>I guess they can't do everything right... but you would think they'd notice.

[Gayalondiel]

another really picky one:<P>when Gandalf tells Frodo 'this is the one ring...etc etc' in bag end frodo is pouring water into the teapot but in the next shot he is seated clutching a mug!<BR>On a similar vein when Elrond does his 'you have only one choice' spiel, he stands up but in an immediate long shot he's seated again!<P>Oh, and APPARENTLY the shards of Gimli's axe appear a few frames before he hits the Ring...I can't make it out though.

[Airetauriel]

[QUOTE]The ring is on a chain when they leave Lothorien & ... when Frodo runs from Boromir (after being attacked, sort of) he is found by Aragorn & the ring is not on the chain, he just holds it in his hand. WHen Frodo is at the river ready to cross the ring is on the chain again. Am I wrong?<BR>[QUOTE]<P>He is wearing the ring when Boromir attacks him, and it is taken from his neck. I presume that Frodo wouldn't be able to put the ring on if the chain was still woven through the centre, so at that stage he must have taken the ring from the chain. He may then have put it back on the chain (or round his neck) before reaching the river, when it is shown again. So, perhaps this one is permissable, as it is possible and can be explained by off screen action. Where is the ring when Frodo is hiding from the orcs near Merry and Pippin? Does anyone know? Is it round his neck or in his hand?

[Airetauriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Raefindel:<BR><STRONG>Did anyone notice Arwens eyes? They are blue throughout the movie, EXCEPT in the scene in the room where the shards of Narsil are kept. There they are brown! </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hadn't noticed the colour change, but then again I fast forward over those bits because I don't like Arwen FULL STOP! The deviations from the book do annoy me - although I can understand, for the sake of length and clarity, why some things (the barrow downs, Tom Bombadil, Farmer Maggot etc) have been dropped. But the introduction of Arwen instead of Glorfindel, although he's a pretty unrelated character, was put there merely to introduce some love interest and get Liv Tyler to agree to do the film! It seems to me to be completely overdramatic.<P>Airetauriel

[Airetauriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Glenethor:<BR><STRONG>That can't be in all scenes, surely? There are a lot of scenes that makes up 'Flight' so possibly there are only 8 in some of the scenes. The other probably had to have a smoke or loo break...I'll count next time I go. Which could be this afternoon, but I have a sore back.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>In all scenes that show all of the riders there are only eight - such as the overhead shot where they are surrounding Nasfalos in a v shape - and when they are all lined up on the other side of the ford - when all are meant to have come together, surely? And in the chase sequence there are three pursuing her to start with, then another three join the chase, coming from angles, and then two more crash in at either side forcing them to jump the log. Eight, to my reckoning. In all scenes there are only eight - eight swords, eight heads, eight horses and thirty two horse legs!!! I'll post a link with some pictorial proof soon! <P>Airetauriel<P>(Can anyone count the riders when they are pictured setting out from the gates of Minas Morgul?)

[Elven-Maiden]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Aralaithiel:<BR><STRONG>And, I did see the car! My brother pointed it out to me! </STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Where's the car?!?!? I totally missed it!

[Glenethor]

Well! That settles it! We need to have a chat with Mr Jackson!<BR> <P>Still didn't see the car last night; I see smoke from the hobbit-hole chimneys, but no car. Maybe if I stop looking for it, I will see it.<P>Saw Boromir blink, but if <I>you</I> blink at the wrong moment, you'll miss it;<P>The problems are kinda like proofreading an essay or manuscript; I disdain spellcheckers, so I always did it myself....until I got my head handed to me on a plate one day by a prof. It is easy to miss things like this if you are too close to it. Yep. They should've seen these things. I think, though, that most of these litle quirks are only apparent if you have seen the movie lots and lots... Like me! And some of you!<BR> <P>Amazing: all those faults and I still think it is one of the best movies I've ever seen. It bothers me on the edge of consciousness that it could've been <I>better</I>.

[Birdland]

Poor Mr. Jackson. Probably spent hours in an editing room, watching scenes til he was cross-eyed, to bring his vision of a favorite book to millions of fans world-wide, and people are jumping all over him about a car that most of us didn't even see. <P>Now if someone did say: "Uh, Peter, we got a 1 second glimpse of a car in this scene. Better fly the actors back to NZ, round up the crew, re-set the scene and re-shoot. Probably only cost about a couple of hundred thousand dollars to do it." <P>Would you do it, or let it slide?

[Glenethor]

Not me. He'd likely bring down the Rohirrim on my head!<BR>

[Balefalathiel]

Glenethor: Before Gollum says 'Shire, Baggins' there's another scene where he says 'Frodo, Baggins, Shire'.I'm sure about this

[Raefindel]

In the Mines of Moria, Legolas jumps over a huge break in the path, holds out his arms and yells"Gandalf". Would he not have called him "Mithrandir" ?

[Starbreeze]

I saw the car twice, it is red. I also saw the stretched people, and the switching of people playing the hoobits to smaller people, but not just in that scene, in one scene they look and walk like children, not adults. I counted 9 Nazgul in all scenes except the one where they are overcome by the river. I did not notice Sam's American accent. I saw Boromir blink, but not the dead orc sitting up. I also noticed the ring and chain thing. I also saw how the black rider grow out of the tree. I was also wondering on the Gandalf's new staff.<BR>I did not see Arwen's eyes change colour.<P>However, there is one more glitch!<BR>When we see the first shot of Frodo's hand holding the ring, back in the Shire, he has white emulsion paint on his hand! A turn for the times - Frodo the Painter/Decorator!<P>It is quite hard to see, but it is there!<BR>

Here's a list of mistakes I noticed:<BR>the car<BR>you can see the frodo actor's shoe in the scene where he and sam are walking in the field.<BR>You can see the lining between Frodo's hobit foot and his real leg when he stumbles at Caradhras.<BR>A dead orc lifts his head when Aragorn runs by at Amon Hen.<BR>In the scene at Amon Hen when Boromir is talking to Frodo, Boromir's cloak is open. When it comes back to him again, it's closed.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

When Gollum is squealing for the first time - I assume you mean the part where you can hear his voice as the screen pans over Mordor & Mt. Doom - I don't think he is saying "Frodo, Baggins, Shire" - the first noise, I think is just a kind of scream in agony. Ya know? I can check again, since I will probably go again

[Airetauriel]

Having obtained the first film on video by various nefarious, and I dare say highly illegal means, I shall go and check these new glitches - in slow motion, pausing as I go along, so I definitely won't miss any! I'm going to look for that car, and this orc that seems to be lifting his head. The poor actor that plays that orc - if it isn't enough that he couldn't see out from his costume, he decided to check what was going on just at the most inopportune moment - just as the camera panned past him! And now he's got the fanatics and obsessives pointing him out......like me!!!<P>Off to check...<P>Airetauriel

[Airetauriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Airetauriel:<BR><STRONG>Off to check...</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I have checked, and I saw the car! Not too clearly, mind, because of my less than perfect picture quality, but a car all the same. I also saw the orc lifting up his head in the Aragorn/Boromir scene, though in the event I nearly forgot to look, I got caught up in it all over again and had to watch it through to the end. <P>As my mother (a fellow fanatic) said, through tears, when she first saw it...<BR>'Oh, Boromir, you were born to die in battle....'<P>So passes the heir of Denethor, captain of the white tower of Gondor...<P>Airetauriel

[Airetauriel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Raefindel:<BR><STRONG>In the Mines of Moria, Legolas jumps over a huge break in the path, holds out his arms and yells"Gandalf". Would he not have called him "Mithrandir" ?</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In the book he may have called him Mithrandir, though I know this scene is not in there - but in the film there is no mention of the elven name for Gandalf of Mithrandir, so to have him shout it would only confuse those that hadn't read the book. If the name of Mithrandir had been mentioned before then it might have made sense. But it is my bet that Mithrandir will never be mentioned in the trilogy of film, for simplicity alone he will be called Gandalf by all. A blow to the purists but quite understandable. <P>Airetauriel

[Raefindel]

Yes, a sad fact, I'm afraid. I really would have liked to hear Legolas call him Mithrandir.

[Glenethor]

Ok, another one. Just got back from seeing it again (I definitely need a life). In Lorien, the Lament for Gandalf starts. Legolas comments 'a lament for Gandalf.' Aragorn replies: 'What do they say of him?' Correct me if I am wrong, but Aragorn speaks Elvish, doesn't he? It was one of the hobbits who asked about the Lament in the book. In the lament, Mithrandir is used, not Gandalf.<P>A mistake in perspective: When Frodo takes the boat out at the end, he doesn't appear too small for it. However, if Aragorn or Legolas had hopped in the boat, given their relative size to the hobbits, they would've been too large for the boat.<P>Anyways: The theatre was full again, which is nice to see. I was sitting so close (how close were you?) I was sitting so close I could smell the halitosis of the Balrog! LOL!<p>[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: Glenethor ]

[Vilya Elathelas of Rivendell]

In the book I think the Lorien elves speak a form of elvish different from that which Aragorn speaks. <P>I noticed one other thing at Amon Hen:<P>Boromir is shot with two arrows, yes. Then, right after he looks at Merry and Pippin, as he whirls around and fights, you can see what appears to be paint or fake blood on his shirt as a spot for the third arrow!!! Did anyone else see this??<P>I saw the ring/chain thing too, and I also only counted eight nazgul when they did the V thing. Oh, and the nazgul horses shone brown in the sunlight.<P>Out of curiosity--at the Council, there is someone seated on either side of Elrond (or elrond's chair, depending on the moment). Who are they??

[Raefindel]

For the answer to that go to the "Where ar people seeing Elladan and Elrohir" thread.

[Glenethor]

Yes, but:<P>The scene between Aragorn and Haldir of the Nose demonstrates that he does speak their language...or they speak the variation that he is. I am no expert on the various modes of speech. Still, it is incongruent if you think about it.<P>Yes, noticed at least some of the Nazgul horses were not black. Also noticed 8 in the V behind Arwen.<P>Someone should bring this stuff up with him at one of the bookstore thingies he is doing.<P>Hey Peter, Fran, et al? When you coming to Canada???<BR>

[Vilya Elathelas of Rivendell]

It is also possible, IMHO, that Haldir speaks BOTH variations, and used the one Aragorn knew with aragorn, as he would have understood nothing else. Besides, did haldir actually SAY anything in that elvish? I was just there, and I forget!! How embarrassing! <P>Did anyone else notice the boromir thing, or was it just my eyes?? Oh, yeah, and the braids in Gimli's beard change.

[KayQy]

Well, he probably has to brush it sometime! <P>As for Aragorn asking about the song, maybe he just wasn't listening. And even if he was, when was the last time you caught every word in a song the first time around?<P>8 Nazgul? I wondered about that too (I think the only thing here I did catch besides Boromir's blink— I guess 3 times isn't enough). My tentative theory is (don't hit me, please) that this was another simplification, so they don't have to explain that they're not really dead. No one will actually say they're dead, but I bet we'll only see the head guy from now on, and people who haven't read the books yet can just assume.<P>Okay, enough bursting bubbles. I know it's more fun to nitpick than to actually find reasonable explanations.

[Glenethor]

Well, I think he would be listening, at least enough to not have to bother Legolas for a translation. Anyways, I have done all of the nit-picking I intend to do. Yes, there are flaws in the film; they don't detract a whole lot for me. The movie is one of the best I have seen in my life, notwithstanding the technical glitches. Actually, I have never enjoyed a film as much as this one. PJ <I>could</I> do some editing for the DVD, polish it up a bit, but whether he does or doesn't I will buy it. What grabs me are the performances, the imagery, and the soul that is in it. It is a <I>luminous</I> work of art. And besides, it's mostly us obsessed folk who've seen the movie enough to quote the dialogue scene by scene who notice most of these things.<BR> <p>[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Glenethor ]

[Gayalondiel]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Glenethor:<BR><STRONG>Ok, another one. Just got back from seeing it again (I definitely need a life). In Lorien, the Lament for Gandalf starts. Legolas comments 'a lament for Gandalf.' Aragorn replies: 'What do they say of him?' Correct me if I am wrong, but Aragorn speaks Elvish, doesn't he? <P>[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: Glenethor ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>According to the lyrics in the soundtrack insert, the first verse of the lament is quenya, the rest in Sindarin. since Sindarin was the commonly used language of the Eldar, and Quenya was used in ceremony and song and stuff, you'd expect Aragorn to know both. I think when he speaks Elvish earlier in the film it Sindarin (I THINK) but anyway he should be able to understand at least part of the lament, shouldn't he?

[Starbreeze]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Glenethor:<BR><STRONG>And besides, it's mostly us obsessed folk who've seen the movie enough to quote the dialogue scene by scene who notice most of these things.<BR>[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Glenethor ]</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, not necessarily. I noticed half this stuff the first time I went, and that was about 6 years after I'd last read the book. However, I do agree that it is an excellent film, certainly the best I have ever seen, and it is the only film I have ever been to see more than once, and the only film I've got into debt about! Can't wait for the DVD (they've taken it out of my cinema now )

[onewhitetree]

You guys are forgetting one thing. This does not, by any means, make all the mistakes go away, but it is an explanation for the "quick change" ones, such as Frodo jumping from pouring tea to sipping it in nanoseconds, Gimli and Legolas's hair changes, and the Ring's being on or off the chain. Think of all the scenes that were cut for a decent theatre running time. All or many or the inconsistencies could have been resolved in those (which, hopefully we will find out completely when the DVD is released). If you think about it, those small problems are probably nothing compared to the inconsistency if they had taken out different scenes, etc.

[Glenethor]

I was too overwhelmed the first time I saw it to see any of the flaws (other than some of PJ's changes to the story). I was just sitting there with my jaw somewhere near the floor.

[Starbreeze]

Lol! Glenethor!